Windows 8 thoughts & opinions: incomplete?

[Mystere]

rdwary is referring to "flaw" as a bug. Not as a design flaw. This is evident in his phrasing (plus he's called it a bug).

Many features have tradeoffs. Sometimes some people don't like one of the tradeoffs, and they insist it's a bug. It's not. It was deliberately designed to function in the way that it does. It meets the requirements set. The requirements were deliberately chosen.

It's not a bug (or a flaw) that my toaster can burn toast. Some users may think that's a flaw, but it's not. It's simply a tradeoff made in the design process. In order to give you more flexibility in the types of bread you use, and how much you want it toasted, it can end up burning the toast in some situations. This is deliberate, but the end result may not be what the user expects.

In this case, the vast majority of people would rather NOT have their computer go to sleep when they are streaming media from it. That would be absurd to let it go to sleep while it was obviously doing something you wanted it to do. Users would rightly call THAT a bug. Unfortunately, rdwary wants to do something different. Something it wasn't designed to do (go to sleep while media is streaming). That's not a bug.

There *MAY* be a bug involved here, but it would be in the client that is connected. If the connected client is keeping the stream open, even when it's not actually streaming, then that is a bug in the client, not the server.

 

[David Bailey]

You can change power options in control panel--

 

[rdwray]

Try these:
Empty the recycle bin; look at the Start Screen recycle bin, now look at the desktop recycle bin.

Open a elevated cmd prompt;
"cd\" to make sure you are in root C:\;
type "copy con file.txt";
hit enter; type some text;
hit enter;
hit "F6";
hit enter.
You will now see a text file on C:\.
Now try to edit that file; you can open it, but you cannot save it unless you open the editor as administrator.

Open a elevated cmd prompt;
run: powercfg -energy;
it will monitor for 60 seconds and save the file to C:\Windows\System32 - don't change the folder.
Now try to open the .html file; you will get a "file not found" error.
Drag the file to the desktop and you can open it.

There are several of these little tidbits.

 

[Mystere]

I'm sorry.. what is it you're trying to say? Maybe other than you don't understand how permissions work?

 

[rdwray]

Why was the file written to system32 if it could not be opened? bug
Why does the recycle bin show full in one place and empty in another? bug
Why can a file be written to a protected drive via a remote computer (copy con)? bug/security flaw

Linux is decades ahead of MS on security and they have not found out how secure a system yet; just aggravate the user. Firefox thought they had their browser locked so you could not run an .exe and I proved them wrong on that and they still have not solved it and they won't. When software manufacturers decided to use xml for their modules, they opened the whole world to hackers with a minimum of effort - easy language there is to modify.

Windows 8 is full of "flaws" - bugs and security issues...

 

[Mystere]

So you don't understand permissions. Ok.

Why was the file written to system32 if it could not be opened? bug

Not a bug. It was written to System32 because you executed the command in the System32 directory, and because you were an elevated user that was allowed to do so. You *CAN* read the file, if you are an elevated user. This is standard permissions.

Why does the recycle bin show full in one place and empty in another? bug

I have no idea what you're talking about. There is no recycle bin on the start page.

Why can a file be written to a protected drive via a remote computer (copy con)? bug/security flaw

You have some very strange ideas. copy con is not a remote computer. "con" is a special file name used by the operating system to indicate the current console. You are telling the Windows shell to copy a "file" (which in reality is the input of the current command prompt) to a specific file name. Not only is this not a bug, it's by design, and it's not a security flaw. You can only write files to locations you have permission to write to. FYI, you can do the same thing in unix/Linux (cp tty filename, echo tty > filename, etc...). This goes back to DOS 1.0.

You're one of "those" people that have convinced themselves they know everything, and they know better than anyone else.. despite a very obvious lack of knowledge which you seem very willing to demonstrate at every turn. You're a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Good luck with that.

 

[jaebberwock]

I'm just an occasional visitor but I have trouble understanding what your motivation is in defending each and every aspect of Windows 8, legitimate or not. Not just on this thread either but sprinkled throughout the forum. I wouldn't even be that defensive of a family member, let alone a 3 month old OS.

Windows 8 is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I guess that is not entirely true, it is a solution for a problem Microsoft has, not I.

The UI is flashy and gets in the way. It wants to be notice. I don't want to notice my OS. It should be invisible so I can get what I need to done. I don't want to interact with it, play with it. I had to search for regedits to make my synaptics touchpad not trigger the charm bar if I even scrapped the left side of the pad. Either that or install a generic driver.

No native drivers for igfx by intel, windows provided one crashes and resets. When it resets, any video that would be playing in a browser would only play audio. The fix is to close and reopen the browser.

A November update came along. EVERYTHING slowed down for me. My SSD was relegated back to HDD speeds. Browser took a good 5 seconds to open, as did OneNote/Word/Excel. ON W7, which I am back on now? Instantaneous. Another update broke all my Metro apps. Repair function in the store did nothing to repair it. Uninstalling and reinstalling the apps did nothing to repair it. Refreshing the computer would leave the apps in tact and would do nothing to repair it.

Search - inefficient and unreliable. 0 matches in apps, 5 matches in settings, 10 in files. Lets display apps where there are 0 apps! Makes sense! Quite frequently the search wouldn't bring up a result until I finished spelling the whole thing, completely. One letter from completion, nothing. Enter final letter, there it is. Makes no sense.

Training consumers for ads - Minesweeper, Xbox Music, advertisements. Xbox music will match your music and serve up the censored version from their servers rather than play the one locally from your drive so they can serve you ads. Ads in minesweeper? No thanks. Give me back the low graphics ad free one. It is plain as day where MS is going with this and I do not like it one bit.

Workflow - extremely disruptive. Changing the entire screen to open something up messes up your train of though, especially when working in number intensive programs or you are in the certain place in a long document. Much like how I forget what I was going to do when I enter a room. What did I come here to get again? Happens a lot for me, especially when I'm working on something monotonous.

Cleaning up after install. I really don't like having icons pollute the startup screen after an install. It is unnecessary and annoying and indicates a lack of polish.

2 different browsers. How is this a good idea? 2 different browsers, each with their own history, extensions, bookmarks, etc. Why deal with this added complexity? I ended up forcing Chrome to disable the Metro browser because I did not want every link I clicked in anything remotely connected to metro popping up that browser. That worked well for a while until I went into Metro mode for whatever reason and got permanently stuck in Metro mode. I'm not blameless in that one because maybe my regedit had something to do with it.

No clock. Seems small but it was annoying not having a clock viewable at all times. Full screen mode=no taskbar=no clock. I tried to compromise with an app called the Time but that thing leaked memory like crazy, upwards of 1GB in ram by a clock used up.

The mousing around. OMG, the mousing around. All this dragging and sliding and flinging. I'm not here to play around. If my workflow requires mostly mouse inputs, then I won't have my hands on the keyboard. Shortcuts are inefficient so I have to click and drag, click and drag. Hit a hot corner and carefully go down so it doesn't lose focus. Everything requires further mouse travel. Right click is inconsistent, always a surprise. Back button on mouse is inconsistent. Sometimes it goes back, sometimes it doesn't.

Metro App startup times. I thought these things were lightweight but some of them take 4-5 seconds to startup. I thought they were going for Android startup speeds, near instantaneous.

I could go on. It makes me angry that a lot of people are dismissive of other users concerns. Oh, they are just parroting what some tech blog said. I assure you I am not. I am frustrated because I have wasted hours and hours of my life trying to get the OS to do what I want it to do.

The speed slowdown plus my browser being stuck was the last straw and I uninstalled W8. I like W7. W8 is like a service pack with some great improvements but a lot of added, unremovable baggage. I loved the pastel coloring and the flatness of W8, I found it a lot more attractive and clean than W7. I loved the explorer ribbon interface which made everything more efficient to get to. I loved the file management system and how I could pause and start each transfer individually.

In short, I would have had no problem upgrading for $100+ to Windows 8 minus metro rather than this $40 waste of hours of my life. Maybe these issues will be resolved in the future, maybe they won't. Bottom line is I found the experience unpleasant. That is not something that is arguable or up for discussion. "My" experience. I reckon there are some more out there like me. I'm surprised at how vocal I am about this but I really don't want Windows to continuing going in the direction it appears to be going. I will not buy a Mac and unless Ubuntu gets future office versions, I am stuck.

 

[Mystere]

You know, I could as a similar question of you. What is your motivation for going to a forum dedicated to an OS you don't use and hate, and badmouthing it? See, accusations work both ways.

You don't like it. Fine. But why the need to tell other people that it's impossible for them to like it either?

 

[rdwray]

jaebberworck, you hit the nail on the head...

I right now have a .reg file on a separate partition, in a folder I created, and Win8 refuses to let me edit the file without logging in as default administrator. I am awaiting Service Pack 3.

Edit: Here is another one: I manually created 2 restore points and both have been deleted and NONE exist; not much good is it????

 

[symbiont]

You're one of "those" people that have convinced themselves they know everything, and they know better than anyone else..

Hello pot, meet kettle.

 

[Ray8]

When someone provides a comprehensive and clear explanation of why they don't like Windows 8, immediately bagging them is hardly a mature response. Such examples can be very valuable for those who operate in the same manner and will save them from going through the same experiences. Windows 8 is new and it needs to be fleshed out, warts and all, and both opposing views need to be able to be aired without the usual 'hate' moniker being thrown about at every opportunity.

 

[rdwray]

To those who are prejudice, all opposition is hate mongering.

When a person spends money to buy a car, they don't expect the tires to be flat.

To find out the issues, look through the issues that have been put forward and it will soon become evident why people may not be happy. They have spent a lot of time on forums trying to get answers to why things do not work as advertised without spending hours and hours creating work arounds and registry hacks to get things to work.

 

[steveb]

Jaeberrwock - that's probably one of the best summars of what's good and bad about it. Almost a good desktop OS spoilt by the toy interface baggage. As you say a solution to a problem that MS has invented.

 

[SIW2]

Jaeberrwok,

Good post . That is what a forum is for.

 

[Mystere]

When a person spends money to buy a car, they don't expect the tires to be flat.

The tires aren't flat. They've been replaced with a hover engine, yet you keep getting angry because you can't inflate the tires as you always have.

 

[pparks1]

I think his post was reasonable, thought out and not attacking anybody or anything. He didn't seem to say it was unusable by anybody else. He stated why it's not great for him.

Since when are forums only for supporters? Lots on gaming forums who don't like a game, lots on car forums discussing what they don't like or what is broken on their car. Usually those who are unhappy are the loudest.

 

[labeeman]

I'm just an occasional visitor but I have trouble understanding what your motivation is in defending each and every aspect of Windows 8, legitimate or not. Not just on this thread either but sprinkled throughout the forum. I wouldn't even be that defensive of a family member, let alone a 3 month old OS.

Windows 8 is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I guess that is not entirely true, it is a solution for a problem Microsoft has, not I.

The UI is flashy and gets in the way. It wants to be notice. I don't want to notice my OS. It should be invisible so I can get what I need to done. I don't want to interact with it, play with it. I had to search for regedits to make my synaptics touchpad not trigger the charm bar if I even scrapped the left side of the pad. Either that or install a generic driver.

No native drivers for igfx by intel, windows provided one crashes and resets. When it resets, any video that would be playing in a browser would only play audio. The fix is to close and reopen the browser.

A November update came along. EVERYTHING slowed down for me. My SSD was relegated back to HDD speeds. Browser took a good 5 seconds to open, as did OneNote/Word/Excel. ON W7, which I am back on now? Instantaneous. Another update broke all my Metro apps. Repair function in the store did nothing to repair it. Uninstalling and reinstalling the apps did nothing to repair it. Refreshing the computer would leave the apps in tact and would do nothing to repair it.

Search - inefficient and unreliable. 0 matches in apps, 5 matches in settings, 10 in files. Lets display apps where there are 0 apps! Makes sense! Quite frequently the search wouldn't bring up a result until I finished spelling the whole thing, completely. One letter from completion, nothing. Enter final letter, there it is. Makes no sense.

Training consumers for ads - Minesweeper, Xbox Music, advertisements. Xbox music will match your music and serve up the censored version from their servers rather than play the one locally from your drive so they can serve you ads. Ads in minesweeper? No thanks. Give me back the low graphics ad free one. It is plain as day where MS is going with this and I do not like it one bit.

Workflow - extremely disruptive. Changing the entire screen to open something up messes up your train of though, especially when working in number intensive programs or you are in the certain place in a long document. Much like how I forget what I was going to do when I enter a room. What did I come here to get again? Happens a lot for me, especially when I'm working on something monotonous.

Cleaning up after install. I really don't like having icons pollute the startup screen after an install. It is unnecessary and annoying and indicates a lack of polish.

2 different browsers. How is this a good idea? 2 different browsers, each with their own history, extensions, bookmarks, etc. Why deal with this added complexity? I ended up forcing Chrome to disable the Metro browser because I did not want every link I clicked in anything remotely connected to metro popping up that browser. That worked well for a while until I went into Metro mode for whatever reason and got permanently stuck in Metro mode. I'm not blameless in that one because maybe my regedit had something to do with it.

No clock. Seems small but it was annoying not having a clock viewable at all times. Full screen mode=no taskbar=no clock. I tried to compromise with an app called the Time but that thing leaked memory like crazy, upwards of 1GB in ram by a clock used up.

The mousing around. OMG, the mousing around. All this dragging and sliding and flinging. I'm not here to play around. If my workflow requires mostly mouse inputs, then I won't have my hands on the keyboard. Shortcuts are inefficient so I have to click and drag, click and drag. Hit a hot corner and carefully go down so it doesn't lose focus. Everything requires further mouse travel. Right click is inconsistent, always a surprise. Back button on mouse is inconsistent. Sometimes it goes back, sometimes it doesn't.

Metro App startup times. I thought these things were lightweight but some of them take 4-5 seconds to startup. I thought they were going for Android startup speeds, near instantaneous.

I could go on. It makes me angry that a lot of people are dismissive of other users concerns. Oh, they are just parroting what some tech blog said. I assure you I am not. I am frustrated because I have wasted hours and hours of my life trying to get the OS to do what I want it to do.

The speed slowdown plus my browser being stuck was the last straw and I uninstalled W8. I like W7. W8 is like a service pack with some great improvements but a lot of added, unremovable baggage. I loved the pastel coloring and the flatness of W8, I found it a lot more attractive and clean than W7. I loved the explorer ribbon interface which made everything more efficient to get to. I loved the file management system and how I could pause and start each transfer individually.

In short, I would have had no problem upgrading for $100+ to Windows 8 minus metro rather than this $40 waste of hours of my life. Maybe these issues will be resolved in the future, maybe they won't. Bottom line is I found the experience unpleasant. That is not something that is arguable or up for discussion. "My" experience. I reckon there are some more out there like me. I'm surprised at how vocal I am about this but I really don't want Windows to continuing going in the direction it appears to be going. I will not buy a Mac and unless Ubuntu gets future office versions, I am stuck.

This blog may help you contend with Window8 shortcomings.

6 tips to make Windows 8 less annoying | Computerworld Blogs

 

[Mystere]

He didn't seem to say it was unusable by anybody else. He stated why it's not great for him.

Really? What part of "Windows 8 is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist" is a reasonable, unbiased opinion about his own personal preference?

It's these kinds of statements that make those of us that like Windows 8 to shake our heads and see red.

I particularly liked how he said he'd pay $100 and enjoy Windows 8 without metro, which is kind of stupid because it's quite easy to make Windows 8 metro-free unless you want to see it. So, since he claimed he'd like Windows 8 if it didn't have metro, but refuses to do a little customization to make that happen.. it just means he really wants to complain.

 

[azasadny]

Jaebberwock, Very good points made! I had some of the same issues you had but I never experienced any crashes, slowdowns, etc... just the interface that didn't fell "done" to me... I'll stick with Win7 for awhile yet...

 

[Coke Robot]

Jaebberwock, Very good points made! I had some of the same issue you had but I never experienced any crashes, slowdowns, etc... just the interface that didn't fell "done" to me... I'll stick with Win7 for awhile yet...

Ahh! But that Windows Phone 8 of yours if going to make you switch to Windows 8, it's inevitable!