Windows 8: My complaints

[HippsieGypsie]

What are you blabbing on about? If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. Just because Microsoft's Photo App doesn't have the option to rotate a photo means absolutely nothing, there will be plenty of photo apps that will provide the options to manipulate photos in many ways including rotate.

If I'm using Metro on my desktop then the Apps I use will be specific to the way I work on the desktop. Apps are not made to replace desktop applications, they serve their own purpose and fragmentation doesn't even come into play.

This is a picture viewer, on a phone or a tablet, if the orientation is wrong, you just turn the tablet. On a desktop to view the image you have to rotate it. If the photo viewer was meant to be used on the desktop it would have had a rotate.

*I* did not design the thing, MICROSOFT did and this is an EXAMPLE of how Microsoft is viewing the entire Metro universe and all the apps they have created for it as a CONSUMPTION device for tablets and phones. The cramming of it on the desktop is almost a secondary afterthought as a marketing tool.

Get it now???

Try reading my response again because you clearly don't get it. How does rotating my tablet help with sending a picture to facebook in the correct orientation if the orientation is incorrect?

Try reading my response again because you clearly don't get it. How does rotating my tablet help with sending a picture to facebook in the correct orientation if the orientation is incorrect?

Hi Guys.

A little argument going on here I see. I think there's some cunfusion in it, so let's see if we can work through it.

#1 OP complains about Photo app. Perhaps rightfully so.

#2 R0br comes back with: "If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED." Yes, it's a need, but it's not in his app he's talking about, for it's a viewer, not an editor.

#3 FSeal comes back doing a good job trying to explain that it's a photo viewer, not an editor.

#4 R0br comes back pleading to read post again.

Facts as I see them:

#1 I believe the Modern (not Metro anymore) Photo app really doesn't end up on the desktop, for it's a Modern app written in a new UI. It opens in that UI window, not the desktop. It's a new kind of "Window". It is just a viewer, not editor.

#2 Smart phones have photo editor apps that one can obtain. By default, turning the phone to orientate does not edit a pic. In fact the pic just orientates itself the way it was taken no matter how one turns the phone. I think this is true for PADDs also. So, there's a need for an editor.

#3 If one desires a photo editor for the desktop, one will have to obtain a legacy program to do so.

#4 One can do on the 8 desktop that one has alawys performed before on other OS's desktop.

#5 MS apps are in their infancy. One should not expect perfection, just as any legacy program in it's infancy.

#6 The desktop in 8 is just a portal to open and use legacy programs. That's all it is. It's treated as an app, not that it is an app. It now takes 2nd place to the new UI called Modern.

Of course, anyone may right me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kat]

The opengl part must be an issue with your video drivers, hopefully they wil lbe fully up to snuff on release. I've run a couple of Open GL games on it and they run fine. (I should pop Blender over on it and see how that goes...)

NVidia 285 (Yeah it's old, this is my "test machine", AKA my old desktop...

"Ugly as Sin" fits IMHO

Yes, it was a driver issue, Fseal.

I installed the Nvidia 301.42 driver, which I hadn't thought
to try cos it didn't help in the RP, and I now have openGL
functionality back.

Some older DirectX titles that wouldn't work on the CP or RP
also now work again on the RTM.

So that's my one huge issue with Win 8 sorted. Now I just
need a 3rd-party app to put transparency back.....

GFX is a GeForce GT555M with 2GB DDR3 VRAM.



**EDIT: - Just re-tested with another older openGL title
(Soldier of Fortune 2) and it seems to run fine.**

 

[Coke Robot]

The opengl part must be an issue with your video drivers, hopefully they wil lbe fully up to snuff on release. I've run a couple of Open GL games on it and they run fine. (I should pop Blender over on it and see how that goes...)

NVidia 285 (Yeah it's old, this is my "test machine", AKA my old desktop...

"Ugly as Sin" fits IMHO

Yes, it was a driver issue, Fseal.

I installed the Nvidia 301.42 driver, which I hadn't thought
to try cos it didn't help in the RP, and I now have openGL
functionality back.

Some older DirectX titles that wouldn't work on the CP or RP
also now work again on the RTM.

So that's my one huge issue with Win 8 sorted. Now I just
need a 3rd-party app to put transparency back.....

GFX is a GeForce GT555M with 2GB DDR3 VRAM.



**EDIT: - Just re-tested with another older openGL title
(Soldier of Fortune 2) and it seems to run fine.**

You might be also to get Windows 8 styled transparency back on the Desktop soon too....

 

[Coke Robot]

See, instead of just having side debates, let's solve user issues.

You personally don't find the metro apps useful to you, OK, that's cool. I like them, I use them. But if you don't, that doesn't mean the OS itself is bad, it's just the apps for you. To get things working for you, as Windows 8 is stellar once you do (just as stellar otherwise), just get rid of the apps. Right click on them on the Start Screen, and uninstall them. Then, set program defaults if needed through the Default Programs UI. Then, right click to pin a folder, Library or a hard drive to the Start Screen. Arrange tiles as needed. Get rid of unneeded clutter from Desktop app installs, right click, unpin from Start. To clean up the All Apps screen, right click on an entry, open file location, delete superfluous shortcuts.

After all is said and done, you have a workhorse of a Desktop based OS...although I have apps installed...




And hopefully you get Windows 8 rocking your machine!

 

[Fredledingue]

this is an EXAMPLE of how Microsoft is viewing the entire Metro universe

IMO that was the important part of his message (not that you can't rotate of stuffs). This is how Microsoft thought that Desktop use will be no different than smartphone use. Placing, as HypsieG said, the Desktop in the second place behind the Start Screen, or, Windows behind Metro if you will. That's why Micrososft said officialy that Metro is now the new way of using computers. All these are obviousely wrong IMO. It's Microsoft's phylosophy that we criticize here more than W8.

the Modern (not Metro anymore)

No, please any word or phrase but not "Modern". ...Please!

And hopefully you get Windows 8 rocking your machine!

Nice. But why not have all these cool tiles immediately on the desktop??? That would make much more sens to me. Having Metro enbedded to the desktop. The tiles replacing icons. No need to go back and forth, and no need to have two separate sets of icons and tiles. With of course the option to use the classic desktop if one doesn't like Metro style. That's how I would have designed W8. Why do we need a Start Screen and a Desktop?

 

[HippsieGypsie]

No, please any word or phrase but not "Modern". ...Please!

Yes, Fred, I'm afraid so. Last I heard, that's what they're calling it. All because a German company owns the copyright on the word "Metro". Silly to me.

"Modern" to me is too bland for it's a often used word. Metroplolitan or even Neapolitan would have been a sweeter choice. <- Pun intended.

 

[davehc]

Except by Mary Foley, and an article in the Indian "ComputerWorld", I don't think there has been any mention of legal possibilities, from any reliable source (Unfortunately, I have never defined Foley as such). I really doubt the current rumour referring to the German organisation. (Metro.org, I believe) We have branches of their supermarket in my country of abode. I cannot see how anyone could connect the term, or be concerned about copyright, in that area. The word "metro" has existed for many years - long before computers were put on the desktop.
If related to Windows 8, I love this Urban dictionary definition.

guy that is not gay but has feminine characteristics "That guy looks so metro with that salmon colored shirt on." But, frivolity aside, "Metro" is a common word, originating from Latin, and in general use. The rumoured German firm have , it is alleged, copyright on "Metro.org", nothing else. If MS are lowering the profile on the word, it is probably for far more subtle reasons. If a question of legality? Then maybe the london cops had better think over their colloquial name, or even the Paris underground!

 

[Coke Robot]

I'm still using metro, no German is going to make me abide by their rules!

Fred, I was thinking about your tiles idea, it's iffy to me.

See, the point of the Start Screen was to rebuild a feature that isn't being used as much because of the new Taskbar in 7. Now, as I see it, Windows is layered because of it. The Desktop is the bottom layer (always there), Start Screen is on top and in middle of the final layer, and that is the WinRT app. The Start Screen is used to navigate between layers if Desktop and metro apps are used. If Desktop is the only thing used, then Start Screen becomes the backstage layer so to speak, where the Desktop is the main stage, Start Screen is where you find props to use on stage. You could just plop five hundred icons, but you might as well just use Windows 3.11. As Windows 7's (and maybe vista's) UI features were used, a more cleaner Desktop is becoming more mainstream. No longer do you see a plethora of icons, maybe a couple of columns, but not as much as before. It's more of an environment to handle your open windows. This is where Start comes in. If that layer wasn't there, you'd need to hit Show Desktop all the time, launch a program or view live tiles, then restore your open windows tediously if you launched a program. If tiles were there, it would cover a Desktop wallpaper, which would reduce personalization, and would literally make the claims that Windows 8 is Windows Phone (which it isn't and I'd love to have the debate with those who say so as they probably only knew about Windows Phone because of 8 and have never even touched one or let alone used one) true because of those tiles.

It needs to be layered for everything to work in harmony with each other. The traditional use of the Desktop as an icon launcher layer has been slipped out, leaving windowed apps as the main use in the bottom layer, then putting that over the Desktop. If that made any sense whatsoever.

 

[Fredledingue]

Coke I understand what you mean. I see the issue of having all the windows minimized everytime you want to see the desktop to find an icon. And then having to reopen all of them one by one.

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One solution could be that the "show desktop" shows the desktop the first time it's clicked, then restore all the windows the second tiem it's clicked. Or hae a restore windows button.

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I don't see the need for two layers of work spaces. Metro could be a little bit more like a Start Menu or be configurable to behave more like a Start Menu.

 

[Dogmatix]

Coke I understand what you mean. I see the issue of having all the windows minimized everytime you want to see the desktop to find an icon. And then having to reopen all of them one by one.

---

One solution could be that the "show desktop" shows the desktop the first time it's clicked, then restore all the windows the second tiem it's clicked. Or hae a restore windows button.

---

I don't see the need for two layers of work spaces. Metro could be a little bit more like a Start Menu or be configurable to behave more like a Start Menu.

How about putting the Metro Start Screen in a Window on the Desktop? The OS is called "Windows", after all, not "Tiles". It could have smaller and more configurable tiles, and called up by pressing the Windows button on the keyboard or clicking (sorry, tapping) on a special icon (bottom left would be a good place)

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Hi All. I see a little discussion going on again about the "Modern" Start Screen verses the Start Menu with the orb.

I'm mostly a keyboard shortcut user, for I think it's faster than the mouse. What was nice starting with Vista was the scrolling through "windows" using WinKey/Alt or Ctrl/Alt. WinKey/D for desktop just as now no matter where one is at even the Start Screen. No need to minimize to get to Start Screen just as the Start Menu. WinKey, boom. Page up, page down, start or end keys, all arrow keys all work for the Start Screen just as the Start Menu. I see no difference.

The Start Screen is a good compromise for touch verses PC. That's why they did away with it let alone hardly anyone used it. I think Coke's thinking and outlook is correct.

Now, tiles verses icons. My wide muscular construction fingers have a hard time with icons. I'll be glad the day I get my Windows phone and get rid of my Droid. Tiles are far better than icons. Live tiles on the Start Screen more or less are similar to gadgets so far as information. Less on resources too.

I could go on. I think the Start Screen is far better than the Start Menu in a lot of respects.

 

[kbz1960]

I've just installed last night and have been using it somewhat today. So far I was with the group "what's with this metro crap" but the more I read on here and see that you can still do what you want and one click gets to the desktop I think it might be alright after getting the metro page or screen or ? setup to my liking.

I'm unsure about the metro apps however as I don't have anything else that is win mobile and they seem very limited so I probably won't be investigating those much. I also don't like that the 2 interfaces, desktop and metro, seem to be disconnected from each other.

Boy don't we all like something different LOL.

 

[Fredledingue]

How about putting the Metro Start Screen in a Window on the Desktop? The OS is called "Windows", after all, not "Tiles". It could have smaller and more configurable tiles, and called up by pressing the Windows button on the keyboard or clicking (sorry, tapping) on a special icon (bottom left would be a good place)

Yes that's what I was saying from day 1. Metro shouldn't conceal the whole desktop environement if it's meant to be used as a Start Menu. Also Metro apps should be opened in a normal window not in a new type of anachronical full screen "DOS mode" (aka "Metro mode").

I think the Start Screen is far better than the Start Menu in a lot of respects.

Maybe. Yet I still don't understand why we cannot have the Modern Screen and at the same time the Start Menu on the same computer. Or the option to use the Start Menu for those who wish this preference.