What's wrong with W8 and what MS should do to fix it....

[Lee]

Whoa! Conspiracy theories and confected outrage indeed.

Voluminous retort submitted (which no one will read).

Your honour, I rest my case.

Sorry, but I read the whole post, and must say it was well written. It was also, to the point. . . .

Nothing using that many words can be to the point. And you'd have to have the patience of a corpse to read a forum post that long.

It only took me 30 minutes to read the post, albeit when you are only working with half a brain (two strokes and 1 mini) then sometimes you have to read it really slow so it all get into the brain. . .

 

[Ray8]

It only took me 30 minutes to read the post, albeit when you are only working with half a brain (two strokes and 1 mini) then sometimes you have to read it really slow so it all get into the brain. . .

And yet the slings and arrows (of outrageous fortune) miss their mark.

 

[znod]

@ HippsieGypsie:

Right, the balancing act is "where business and general user interests are not always as well aligned as one might want or expect." For example, one set of users may be disadvantaged vis-a-vis another in the development process because that's viewed as being the more profitable way to go. But, that's the way of capitalism.

To clarify, saying something is the more profitable way to go is an over simplification. As you allude, businesses, as well as individuals, have to do a balancing act when it comes to risks and rewards. This balancing act, in principle, takes shareholders' interests into account. The market judges, and prices, businesses risk-reward taking activities. We'll be seeing what the market thinks of MS's risk-reward activities. Hard to judge now, but there seems to be some evidience that the market is not overwhelmed. But, we'll see.

And, note that the balancing act typically is devoid of thinking along the lines of the public interest--i.e., accomplishing social goals. For example, to overstate the case to make a point, MS could focus exclusively on moving toward an OS that allows one to do only incredibly superficial things and induces individuals to become embroiled in doing these things because of profitability. In this context, we might end up, for example, with fewer and fewer individuals skilled at doing things that would assist in solving complex scientific problems and promoting economic development both in the USA and worldwide, etc.

I know these points are discussable ad infinitum--and generally are unresolvable because of the general impossibility of knowing when society is better off, etc. So I am only going to reply briefly to comments that are on target as the discussion ensues--if I reply at all. I only ask that individuals read carefully and only discuss points I actually made in replying to me or at least be clear if you are talking about something I didn't actually say. And, I know that Bill Gate is a very socially minded individual.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Actually my name is Bond.....James Bond.

Outed by the flag in your sig - old chap.

Shhhh! Actually my name is Bond......James Bond. I'm using a different flag to masque myself.

Although you may be correct in your accusation, I highly doubt that it's true. If caught doing such, corporations would be in a world of hurt to deceive the public and stockholders at large. Heavy fines would be cast. I just don't think they take that risk.

They'll deceive by means of what I call "Hollywood BS commercials", though. MS included. "You just gotta' have the latest, greatest thing!" Even if one doesn't need it they'll buy it just to be "in and cool". I did it when younger as I see my children doing such, not to say I'm totally cured.

I read your complaints about 8 and the answers you get. I so happen to think you're right in some ways, for I believe 8 is not targeted at you or other power users or businesses, but rather the general "consumption" "ever-more-mobile" public for generally calendar and social purposes. I think MS is targeting a certain market is all. Some PUs and businesses may adopt it if it fits their needs.

I feel you should make no mistake that the Modern UI is the direction that MS is going and WILL REMAIN to stay no matter how much one evaluates and complains of it. The desktop will eventually be eliminated. I think they have something in plan for enterprise. I so happen to think that 8 is a slim, fast, and fluid OS that fits my needs. I'm enjoying the experience. I realize that to some it may not be so.

I don't have a crystal ball to peer into and I don't even know a MS employee to ask. I just read. I may be totally wrong in my predictions. Time will only tell. It will be interesting to watch how it will all unfold.

I advise to sit back and watch the river flow.

 

[mountain15]

@Mystere. I quickly read your post. You have misunderstood the intention of my article. It was meant to point out temperory solutions to the UI inconsistency problem that could've been implemented until metro completely takes over. (re-read the last paragraph). If you have actually read my article, I do not bash windows 8. And I only propose solutions. I would rather take feedback on those ideas I mentioned, instead of polite insults.

As for your house analogy, there is something you are forgetting. Sure you would rebuild a room one by one. But would you sell the house half finished. No... At least paint, modify the other rooms so the buyer is more likely to perceive the house as more of a complete structure.

Lets face it, No need to make excuses for Microsoft or accept their excuses. Its's obvious that the company was on deadline to finish Windows 8. Infact, it was released to gain market share and to compete with ipad. They are a business so no surprises there.

 

[wetibbe]

I think I am in very safe ground when I speak/write. Actually very solid.

Last thing I want to do is sound as though I am lecturing.

The biggest beef that everyone has about Windows 8 is that it doesn't have a start menu like the previous version. But some complainant's and questioners seem to be "stuck in neutral".

I'm only judging from comments I read on these websites. Of course I don't have access to the thoughts and opinions of the hundreds of thousands, or millions, of Windows 8 licensee's. But from what I see it is patently obvious that a very large percentage of posters really haven't as yet learned very much about Windows 8. And many definitely do not understand it. I don't exclude myself but I can say that I am apparently light years ahead of quite a good number of the guys and gals.

I'm something of an insomniac. I often wake up at 2:30 AM. And I read for a couple of hours. Further I ramble round in Windows 8 exploring into each corner. I have no reservations at all in saying that there are many aspects of Win 8 that are far beyond Win 7. Things couldn't have imagined. And it is going to take me months to continue exploring all aspects of this OS.

Wish I could itemize each new discovery but they are so numerous and time consuming that it's just too demanding right at this moment. A couple of little tidbits: #! How Win 8 boots up. It's neat and ingenious. It saves from previous boots and leverages up to speed up boot up time. #2. There are numerous aspects that contain partial "start menu" similarity to previous like Win 7. I already posted a couple such as go to the little start icon lower left and right click to see a drop down menu with 16 selections. Go to task bar and right click for more drop down. You can pin to the task bar. You can pin to the desk top. You can easily customize to your preferences.

The search feature of Win 8 is actually faster and easier than the previous "start menu" in other OS's. Instead of culling through a long list of text as before, you can just start typing on desk top and open search. Just typing a single letter and/or clicking on the list of selections speeds you right to what you are looking for and further opens things that you need and want!

Over Christmas, when my granddaughter was showing Grandpa her new Barnes & Noble Nook touch screen, she was speeding along touching the virtual keyboard with her finger. One of my Grandsons interjected that the World Records, in Guinness's, was set by a young man using the touch screen. Fastest text typing. You just side your finger from key to key, no lifting. And when you hover over the key it types. The touch screen/touch pad is constructed of thousands of wires horizontally and vertically covered by a rubber membrane. As you slide your finger electrical impulses are detected.

So far, too, I have found 5, five, defects in Win 8, things that just do not work. I will probably turn up more.

It is obvious that Win 8 has features, hands down, considerably better than Win 7. There are all kinds of users from all walks of life, covering the entire spectrum. Take for example the Win 8 calculator. It appeals to students, teacher, professors, professional. It has no less that four 4 different aspects for math, scientific, geometry, and more.


Take the maps feature. It has two views, road map and aerial view *( satellite ). And a route planner.

Take the financial: Hordes of information. And on and on................................!

Not to be long winded, Win 8 easily is twice the OS that Win 7 was/is, and I'm not even half way yet through learning all aspects.


There are tinkers and hobbyists. Some will buy a show room car and proceed to mutilate it with all sorts of modifications to personal
preference. Modder's will build a custom computer because they want to instead of buying an off the shelf store product. Because they get their Jolly's doing it. I'm like that with long rifle guns. I like to "build my own" custom, and reload my own custom ammo.

Win 8 lets the tinkerer and "modder" custom start menu. It only takes some attentiveness and effort.

I'll only say that Win 8 was created by IT Professionals, Intelligence Technology Professional some of whom certainly had PHd credentials. And Microsoft has some very sophisticated and very successful marketing people too.

 

[Mystere]

As for your house analogy, there is something you are forgetting. Sure you would rebuild a room one by one. But would you sell the house half finished. No... At least paint, modify the other rooms so the buyer is more likely to perceive the house as more of a complete structure.

Microsoft is not selling Windows the same way you would sell a house. If you sold a house, you would no longer be responsible for it, and thus no longer completing the renovation.

It would be more like if you owned an apartment building, and had decided to renovate it, room by room. You have tenants living there, so you can't just kick them out and tear it down. Instead, you do it piece by piece. You would not spend the money to make all the other rooms look like the newly renovated rooms at each stage of the development. People just have to live through the construction and deal with it. At some point, the construction will be done and everyone will be happier.

 

[Ray8]

Shhhh! Actually my name is Bond......James Bond. I'm using a different flag to masque myself.

Although you may be correct in your accusation, I highly doubt that it's true. If caught doing such, corporations would be in a world of hurt to deceive the public and stockholders at large. Heavy fines would be cast. I just don't think they take that risk.

They'll deceive by means of what I call "Hollywood BS commercials", though. MS included. "You just gotta' have the latest, greatest thing!" Even if one doesn't need it they'll buy it just to be "in and cool". I did it when younger as I see my children doing such, not to say I'm totally cured.

I read your complaints about 8 and the answers you get. I so happen to think you're right in some ways, for I believe 8 is not targeted at you or other power users or businesses, but rather the general "consumption" "ever-more-mobile" public for generally calendar and social purposes. I think MS is targeting a certain market is all. Some PUs and businesses may adopt it if it fits their needs.

I feel you should make no mistake that the Modern UI is the direction that MS is going and WILL REMAIN to stay no matter how much one evaluates and complains of it. The desktop will eventually be eliminated. I think they have something in plan for enterprise. I so happen to think that 8 is a slim, fast, and fluid OS that fits my needs. I'm enjoying the experience. I realize that to some it may not be so.

I don't have a crystal ball to peer into and I don't even know a MS employee to ask. I just read. I may be totally wrong in my predictions. Time will only tell. It will be interesting to watch how it will all unfold.

I advise to sit back and watch the river flow.

This does happen and it happens often, there have ben recent cases even here in Oz. It's not instigated by the organisation, but by an over-zealous and misguided employee(s) who feel that they have to defend a product come hell or high water. On the other hand, you then have to wonder about anyone who is so dedicated to a product in which they have no connection, that any criticism is taken as a mortal insult. This has been pretty common with Apple fanboys, but this is the first time that I've seen similar from Windows users, so I do wonder.

It's still early days and there is no way that I believe that things are set in stone, as far as Windows 8 is concerned. Microsoft has taken a punt and if it proves to be problematic, then they'll be forced to change, not force users to change. Just wait until enterprise users start rolling out test systems and see how things go. And on the enterprise subject, Microsoft needs to accommodate the millions of desktop users that are familiar with the current interface. As we have already seen, the new interface has caused significant angst even amongst more skilled computer users, imagine the grief awaiting those who have very little computer skill.

I have worked in large corporations all my life and I know the issues surrounding even small changes, and the cost to productivity. Training budgets are usually constrained and time available to train even more so. The Windows 8 interface is not a small issue, no matter how much some here make out, they simply don't understand the difficulties many people will experience. The reason why I discuss these things here is that Microsoft will be reading commentary here and everywhere else, make no mistake about that, and as people become familiar with Windows 8, yet still find the same frustrating issues, then it confirms that it's not just a learning hump.