W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP

[HippsieGypsie]

Thanks, guys. Does anyone here write code?

You're welcome about the previous post.

Yes I do write some code.
I'm no expert but I've seen some and done some coding. C++, Java and C# are some languages used here.

My hat off to you on writing code. I was doing some extensive reading tonight on the subject. It made my head spin at times! A four-year degree would aid greatly.

I am getting insight on it all, though. Of course I see that MS has various OSs written in various APIs. All getting more complicated as time goes on. Geez, the hours and money spent in creating these must be enormous! I'll keep reading.

 

[Ex_Brit]

I remember back whenever being told that Vista had 50 million lines of code, XP 45 million and so on, so yes, it's a lot of work.
Going back to the original header here and other threads on what should and shouldn't be included in 8 I can't help feeling, given the current lean-ish (cut throat?) times, that when one reads for instance, that there will no longer be a Start button or menu as it is innovative to do so, that the excuse given masks the real reason, lack of manpower and resources. It saves them a heck of lot of those to omit bits, forget the claptrap techno-speak. Of course Joe Public will always believe what he/she wants to believe.
Personally I'm glad that other individuals and software makers have made it possible to tailor OS's to ones liking through ingenuity.
I believe in choice within a system and nobody was asked if it was OK as far as I recall, when all that was taken away.
I also realise that certain parts of this and previous systems went by the wayside due to misguided governmental legislation, EU for instance.
I like 8, but just wish they'd given me a choice of what parts I wanted, other than MC.

 

[alphanumeric]

I don't write code. Sometimes I wish I knew how to but not enough to get me to open a book and learn how to. Not at my age anyway. I'm an electronic technician by trade, retired now. I have some computer training in my background, some software but mostly hardware. The electronic equipment I maintained often had a PC attached for running maintenance routines and remote monitoring. If the equipment broke we fixed it, if the PC broke we fixed it too.
The software side interests me too. I can usually get done what needs to get done to install an OS and get all the hardware working. I will admit I may not be completely up to speed on the differences between 8 and RT. The more I read, especially here, the better I understand it though.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I still mess around with things like Excel Basic and some simple stuff using Visual Studio -- using things like "Canned widgets" etc, and some SQL queries with things like MySQL. You can achieve a lot these days by just concentrating on the APPLICATION and just bolting on the "Pre developed stuff" like drop down boxes etc.

It's not "Coding" per se and you wouldn't write an OS kernel like that but it's quite fun to do from time to time.

Years ago I did write some old Fortran, (Used at University --studed Electrical Engineering and this was useful on the Maths, Physic and Engineering courses) and IBM's excellent (for the time) PL/1 and and some old IBM Mainframe Assembly language -- but I've long since moved on from those days.

I'd probably be able to learn several dialects of Chinese quicker than understand what a page of C++ means.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Hopachi]

Thanks, guys. Does anyone here write code?

You're welcome about the previous post.

Yes I do write some code.
I'm no expert but I've seen some and done some coding. C++, Java and C# are some languages used here.

My hat off to you on writing code. I was doing some extensive reading tonight on the subject. It made my head spin at times! A four-year degree would aid greatly.

I am getting insight on it all, though. Of course I see that MS has various OSs written in various APIs. All getting more complicated as time goes on. Geez, the hours and money spent in creating these must be enormous! I'll keep reading.

Thanks. I also try too keep it simple when possible because I've seen how difficult it gets in practice.
But once you got something that works, a basic version, you start building on top and add more functionality to the program (as example that's also how Windows gets done) and that's the beauty of it.

 

[Hopachi]

I remember back whenever being told that Vista had 50 million lines of code, XP 45 million and so on, so yes, it's a lot of work.

That's a huge amount of code. And not to mention to try and keep all that as bug-free as possible...

I also remember somewhere it was said that Win7 was built on i7 processors and it took, correct me if I'm wrong I don't recall exactly, more than a 8 hours up to a day complete.

 

[Ex_Brit]

Where's HAL when we need him? Maybe just as well he isn't here...yet. ;-)

 

[jimbo45]

I remember back whenever being told that Vista had 50 million lines of code, XP 45 million and so on, so yes, it's a lot of work.

That's a huge amount of code. And not to mention to try and keep all that as bug-free as possible...

I also remember somewhere it was said that Win7 was built on i7 processors and it took, correct me if I'm wrong I don't recall exactly, more than a 8 hours up to a day complete.

Hi there
Sounds a bit like what some ignorant bosses are doing in those wretched "Off shore" coding factories -- they don't care about the functionality, efficiency or security of their code -- they just pay these people for "Number of lines (or statements) coded".

I have yet to see a SINGLE ONE of my colleagues who have EVER in over 20 years since off shoring started being used in a big way seen any decent code coming from an off shored facility where the functional spec and business analysis has been done ON SITE (Locally) while the actual coding and testing has been developed OFF SHORE.

A new word was added to the English Language "Spaghettification" I think it was.

It wasn't the fault of the off shore coders --just the stupid businesses who though this was actually a CHEAPER way of getting software developed -- well it DOES NOT WORK --you cannot remove on complex projects the developers completely from THE BUSINESS if you have to get a commercial project out of the door.

(India has perfectly good world class mathematicians, scientists, Engineers and business people so NO implied Racism is meant here).

Fortunately -- although very belatedly / better late than never -- people are realising this and stuff is coming back to where it should have stayed in the first place and other technology is gradually replacing the Call center menu hell and "Your call is important to us" while you wait 35 mins on a pay line to get no decent answer at the end of it all.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Ex_Brit]

I agree.

 

[pcRat]

Re: #56— never seen that troll with a bad hair day coming.
I don't know or understand all this either but, I read it and get the gist of what members are saying. At least trying to.

Just hang in there jimbo. You may be an MS prophet thought to be crazy by some; until they lose their desktop in a couple of years.
MS added the search box to the start menu in Vista. We got used to it and used it. Then the start menu as we know it was gone! Good riddance!

 

[jimbo45]

I agree.

Hi there
One of my Friends is on a SAP project -- the development ABAP (that's some sort of SAP coding language) is done currently in Bangalore INDIA -- the whole code when it arrives back on site has to be virtually re-written locally and to get even the simplest thing into production takes nearly 4 weeks.

Before the Off shoring phase was introduced the following would happen when a problem had to be fixed. The developer and business analyst would sit together for say 30 mins, coder would fix problem in say another hour or two, test and QA for the rest of the day and it would be up and running in production the following day.

Anyway the good news for my friend is that the entire off shore facility is having its contract terminated at the end of April and everything will now be done in house - possibly with some external consultants taken on too but all ON SITE.

Now I don't do any coding but it just seems PLAIN BONKERS to have people at the other end of the planet who probably know NOTHING at all about the business processes and assume they can devise a sensible and efficient solution.

Anyway that's my piece on coding. I'm an Engineer so I can speak to developers and it works fine like that ---as I can also SHOW them what I want. There's no way I can do anything like this if the developers are 8,000 KM away in totally different timezones and who come from a different business culture.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

If the Desktop was removed, every H8ter out there would be rolling around freaking out. Too much change can shock....

 

[elbmek]

The thing with win 8 is that its written for touch screen monitors. But, if like me, you want to run it on a pc, that's why where is a desktop, you do not HAVE to use it.

 

[elbmek]

Someone in here was asking about windows defender and why they could not get it to work. As I understand it now, if you are running Microsoft Security Essentials and windows firewall, as I am, on my laptop, windows defender is built in inclusive so shows as not running as a separate entity. So it IS running but part of the whole. My laptop has just done an update to a program that is 'not' running hahaha!!

 

[Tepid]

MSE/Windows Defender are integrated into Windows 8
it is there and turned on by default.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Someone in here was asking about windows defender and why they could not get it to work. As I understand it now, if you are running Microsoft Security Essentials and windows firewall, as I am, on my laptop, windows defender is built in inclusive so shows as not running as a separate entity. So it IS running but part of the whole. My laptop has just done an update to a program that is 'not' running hahaha!!

It's Defender not MSE in 8. Defender was turning off from a reason I don't know as of yet. The latest Defender update should fix the problem to keep it running.

 

[elbmek]

whatever its called in wherever, it seems to be working.

 

[caperjack]

i pined my defenders .exe to the desktop taskbar to keep an i on it

 

[elbmek]

Ok let me know if any developments, I am interested to find out.

 

[Ray8]

Why would I want to sit behind my PC when I could be outside enjoying nature as well? I am more a part of nature than a machine. I do not desire a machine to control me. I want to control it.

Take a drink. Take a drive. Go out and see what you can find.

Hopefully you don't drink and drive, nor text/compute and drive.

That said, sitting outside in 35+C heat, freezing winter, howling gale, bucketing rain etc with a tablet is not my idea of fun. Nor is sitting a lounge chair with a 10" tablet trying to do anything more complex than typing in a Google search query, with power cables running underfoot so that you don't run out of power on a Windows tablet.

For those who think the planet is moving away from desktops, or fixed, large screen, computers keep dreaming. Every device that we have today has evolved because it serves a functional and efficient purpose. The desktop wil not go away.

To remove the desktop, Microsoft would have to provide something that exactly mimicked the functionality of the desktop, with multiple windows etc, for one or a dozen screens, and major software companies would have to develop their programs to fit within the resource limited specs of RT.

That's going to be some ask. So if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's very likely that it is a duck (cue for an avid fanboy for a lame comeback).