Ubuntu does what Microsoft couldn't?

Ubuntu for tablets revealed with split screen multi-tasking, preview for Nexus slates coming this week

This is very different to what Windows offers, for example, with its separate WP8, RT and Windows 8 versions. In fact, Mark Shuttleworth claims to have "cracked this one in a way that has eluded Microsoft," not least because Ubuntu's approach means that smartphone- and tablet-sized apps can run side-by-side on the same device in split screen mode. For example, you could have the Skype phone app running at the same time as a tablet document editor. This feature will be called "side stage," and judging from the video -- which is all we have to go on at this point -- it looks like a nifty approach to multi-tasking, and perhaps slightly more flexible that Samsung's multi-window solution in TouchWiz.

Ubuntu for tablets revealed with split screen multi-tasking, preview for Nexus slates coming this week

I think there will be interesting times ahead.

 

[Ray8]

Yeah, I guess you know exactly how my systems work.

Id say pretty much like a motherboard with a PSU attached, video card, or maybe on board video, some ram and a HDD all packed into a case.

Excellent, that does describe the generic nature of the system components and from that you have cleverly deduced exactly how they work with the various OSes that I use/have used. You are clearly a very unique individual, one of a kind.

 

[BillWindows]

It was mate, but I doubt either would have made a difference as Mint was just as slow.

Mint is the distro that uses Mate. It's unfortunate that it was slow for you, in my experience it's pretty darn quick.

Windows 8 doesn't just boot faster, it's faster at everything and doesn't seem to slow down when adding a lot of programmes like the older Windows versions did.

I never really noticed Windows 7 slowing down much with a bunch of stuff installed. I guess we will have to give Windows 8 12-18 months of crud build up to know for sure whether it performs the same.

Actually Linux and Mint are pretty disappointing, I thought they'd do a lot better. Neither picked up wireless either and I couldn't be bothered trying to set it up.

Well, they certainly aren't Windows. I've had pretty good luck with them picking up wireless, but I tend to insist upon machines with Intel or the Dell 15xx series wireless adapters as they have good Linux support. Honestly though, the majority of Linux machines I run are hardwired desktops.

I'm sure a lot comes down to experience. I've been professionally supporting Linux servers since 1998 or so. I've got a lot of experience under my belt.

I'm not saying I couldn't maybe get them to run a bit quicker and even get the wireless to work, I got it to work on an old Netbook. It's just a bit disappointing after all these years to see some of these issues not fixed yet. I started on Linux, many many years ago and always had a bit of a soft spot for it.

But I did notice when I installed it on my Netbook, it really wasn't an improvement over XP, that was about 18 months ago. Actually the reason I'm a bit disappointed is because a friend of mine has an old Netbook that's not running really well and I thought I'd try Linux on it as well as putting in an extra bit of ram.

Off the top of your head do you know any distros more suitable for a Netbook, maybe something like Puppy Linux but a bit better.

 

[BillWindows]

Yeah, I guess you know exactly how my systems work.

Id say pretty much like a motherboard with a PSU attached, video card, or maybe on board video, some ram and a HDD all packed into a case.

Excellent, that does describe the generic nature of the system components and from that you have cleverly deduced exactly how they work with the various OSes that I use/have used. You are clearly a very unique individual, one of a kind.

I know, clever hey.

 

[pparks1]

I'm not saying I couldn't maybe get them to run a bit quicker and even get the wireless to work, I got it to work on an old Netbook. It's just a bit disappointing after all these years to see some of these issues not fixed yet.

Yes, it truly is disappointing. As Microsoft has such a huge marketshare as far as desktops go, there is little to no incentive for hardware manufacturers to put any effort into making their hardware work. I'd go as far to say that they have arrangements with Microsoft to NOT lift a finger. Either way, the hardware is designed for Microsoft based systems and thusly performs best in this environment.

Off the top of your head do you know any distros more suitable for a Netbook, maybe something like Puppy Linux but a bit better.

I think the biggest issue will be expectations. Distros like DSL or Puppy Linux are VERY scaled back and provide the most rudimentary user interfaces. For many people coming from Windows, or desiring something very similar to Windows, they aren't going to be satisfied with this experience.

People usually flock to Linux for 2 primary reasons.

Cost is the obvious one. A free OS can be a great thing when you have 3-5 PC's on your home network. If you are not the type willing to pirate software, and you understand that Technet is for evaluation use rather than daily use, then using Linux might become far more compelling. And I think Microsoft tried to address this very issue by making Windows 8 $39 for the upgrade.

The second reason is "freedom". You don't have to settle for the way that MS has done it, you don't have to setting for the way that Ubuntu did it, you don't have to accept the way that SuSE did it. You have options. And at the end of the day, if a piece of open source software does not work as you need it to, you can see the code and change the code and make it work. And if you don't have the technical skill set to program yourself, the world is full of other people who can and you can often find the code changes necessary on blogs, forums, etc.

 

[BillWindows]

I'm not saying I couldn't maybe get them to run a bit quicker and even get the wireless to work, I got it to work on an old Netbook. It's just a bit disappointing after all these years to see some of these issues not fixed yet.

Yes, it truly is disappointing. As Microsoft has such a huge marketshare as far as desktops go, there is little to no incentive for hardware manufacturers to put any effort into making their hardware work. I'd go as far to say that they have arrangements with Microsoft to NOT lift a finger. Either way, the hardware is designed for Microsoft based systems and thusly performs best in this environment.

Off the top of your head do you know any distros more suitable for a Netbook, maybe something like Puppy Linux but a bit better.

I think the biggest issue will be expectations. Distros like DSL or Puppy Linux are VERY scaled back and provide the most rudimentary user interfaces. For many people coming from Windows, or desiring something very similar to Windows, they aren't going to be satisfied with this experience.

People usually flock to Linux for 2 primary reasons.

Cost is the obvious one. A free OS can be a great thing when you have 3-5 PC's on your home network. If you are not the type willing to pirate software, and you understand that Technet is for evaluation use rather than daily use, then using Linux might become far more compelling. And I think Microsoft tried to address this very issue by making Windows 8 $39 for the upgrade.

The second reason is "freedom". You don't have to settle for the way that MS has done it, you don't have to setting for the way that Ubuntu did it, you don't have to accept the way that SuSE did it. You have options. And at the end of the day, if a piece of open source software does not work as you need it to, you can see the code and change the code and make it work. And if you don't have the technical skill set to program yourself, the world is full of other people who can and you can often find the code changes necessary on blogs, forums, etc.

Yeah my friend isn't exactly a big spender and he's not too technical either, anyway I've just been playing around with Puppy Linux, runs really well on my old Notebook, it's an old version so i'll download the latest version and see how it goes.
The biggest issue is going to be wireless and getting that running on mine first then his. The main thing he'll be using it for is the Internet so I need something that boots quick, Puppy, and uses hardly any resources again Puppy.

Yeah Pirating isn't exactly my thing, although I've downloaded a lot of programmes over the years for evaluation, then if I like them I buy them.

 

[BillWindows]

Well Puppy Linux works like a charm and runs on my Notebook and Netbook, picked up my wireless network quick as lightning. If it works on my Netbook it will work on my friends. So it looks like I will be able to set it up for Zero cost for him, no extra ram or anything.

This will do him for what he wants, which is basically a Netbook.

Written on Puppy Linux.

 

[Tepid]

So, I have been using Linux for a few days now, trying to get my bearings on it. It's ok at best.
I will continue to use it for a while and testing and blowing it up like I have done several times already.

Puppy Linux is a solid Linux OS, runs great from USB which is what I used it for when fixing certain issues with really badly messed up Windows or needed data recovery that couldn't be done through windows due to a bad hard drive that Windows would have a problem reading, Linux does come through for these situations.

So far, it's not horrible, it's just different mostly.
However, I will repeat what I think i have so far, and add some info for anyone interested
I am now using Linux Mint 14 MATE
This is a fork of Gnome2, whereas Mint 14 Cinnamon is a Fork of Ubuntu Unity (a fork of Gnome3)
Gnome3 is the newest GUI for Linux and is holds great debate floating all over, it is likened to Win8, and not in a good way.

Anyway, my issues with Linux still stand, too many versions with too many flavors and not a single one is really ready for prime time. You still have issues with some software that is really interesting to use (Conky for one) that only works on certain versions and flavors of GUI's, but seems to be abandoned or not really kept up with.

That is Linux' greatest downfall, and always, always will be. Conky is only one example of hundreds.
There is no incentive for anyone to keep up with Linux Distros, flavors of Gui's and testing code across them. Much less just keeping up with fixes for what they have that DOES work. One that I tried out years ago, Compiz, yeah, that's a uber pain to get working anymore. And depends greatly on Linux Version, the GUI and hardware you are running it on.

Not to mention how to even find software. Synaptic is a really archaic system. Just take any schmoe and have them try and find something they would like to try and use in there, and it's a nightmare finding anything of real use.

MATE and Unity have an actual Software Manger, that is much much better. I actually like MATE's better.
According to MATE's Software Manager there are 63307 packages available for download.
But they only present you with about 100 or so that you might actually be interested in using.
They filter out all the junk. You can search for the other 63000 if you need or want (if you know what you are actually looking for).

So, moving on....
When you work for free, where is your incentive? Sorry, but thems the facts, and you can't get around them.

As for Vendors not supporting the drivers for the hardware for Linux, here again, it is very difficult to justify putting time into something that everyone expects everything to be free (The Linux Community). Not very many will code for Linux out of the goodness of their hearts, there has to be something in it. So, for a lot of people, it's a learning exercise, then they move on to what makes them money.

Them darn facts getting in the way again.

If Linux, (and I do think there is some headway being made, there are some apps out there for sale now in the Software managers of Ubuntu Unity) can create a market place for selling software and developers don't just abandon these projects left and right (much like i know is done in the Android and Apple Stores, and yes, unfortunately will happen in the Metro Store), they could possibly start getting some of that support from vendors.

Money talks, money sells items, items that sell get attention. Sorry, damned facts again.

Anyway, i think you get my drift.

Check out Linux if you want, for some will find it is all they need, but to be honest, it's not easier to use than Windows. It really isn't. I am not saying this cause I find Linux difficult, i don't, but it's certainly not exactly easier to get software installed and working,, sure some of the more polished well known and distributed software, but a lot of obscure stuff just plain doesn't work, or is a pain to get working.

For the most part,, working with Windows, if your system is stable, you can install practically anything you can find without issue.
not so much with Linux.

As for, "well you can learn to fix things, and code for what you want".
How many people actually have or even want to make time to do that?
This is another pitfall for Linux. Atleast with Windows, you can pretty much find whatever you want to do and have it work without much effort. ie; Find a Family Tree software as good as Family Tree Maker by Ancestry.com - The #1 Selling Family Tree Program for Linux.
Oh right, you can try to make it work in Wine, and you might be able to, but you ahve to take the time to try and make it work in Wine, good luck with that, while you are still working on that, I would actually be using it in Windows, not trying to still make it work and just open.

This may sound like a slam on Linux, it is and isn't. It's a comparison of what I see and have learned using Linux versus what I know about Windows.

By the way, I crashed the Software Manager just searching for anything that starts with S.

Linux has a few thousand+ miles more to go.

One final note, the hardcore long time Linux community doens't like Ubuntu Unity, it's why it has slid in the number of downloads, they are flocking to Mint. This is another pitfall of Linux, the community moves in waves to what they think might be the next great OS, then find fault and move on.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I thought this is strange so I tried an older Ubuntu 11.04 on it and it ran decidedly better, looks like Linux is starting to get bloated.

Lots of people have complained the Ubuntu 12.10 is slow and bloated.

I've not had one PC yet where any version of Windows is faster than Linux.

When I run Windows VMs (in VMware) on Linux Mint (and previously on Ubuntu 10), they are only marginally slower than my physical installs.

LInux Mint 14 (MATE) feels smoother and faster than Ubuntu 10 and it definitely boots faster than W7.

One final note, the hardcore long time Linux community doens't like Ubuntu Unity, it's why it has slid in the number of downloads, they are flocking to Mint. This is another pitfall of Linux, the community moves in waves to what they think might be the next great OS, then find fault and move on.

That's because despite Unity being better than Metro, Unity is b***** awful.

 

[Ray8]

Yes, I found Mint to be faster than Ubuntu. But it's all really in the margin when it comes to comparing the Linux distributions. Also, I'm not really worried about startup times, that's when I go and make a coffee anyway, it's how the system runs as a whole that matters to me. Though in all fairness, I have a lot more programs installed in Windows, so there are a lot more background processes running than there are with a Linux install, as there not as many installed programs.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Additional Programs

Though in all fairness, I have a lot more programs installed in Windows, so there are a lot more background processes running than there are with a Linux install, as there not as many installed programs.

Agreed.
One of the big "resource hogs" on Windows are AV programs.

Two other programs I have to run on Windows 7 (that aren't required for Linux) are:

• A virtual desktop program (VirtuaWin + KvasdoPager)
• An ISO mounter (VirtualCloneDrive)

 

[BillWindows]

Yeah that Family Tree Maker is an unreal programme, I've been using it for many years, and it's progs like that that keep Windows strong. I don't know how many people use Quicken but that's another fantastic programme, although mine is getting a bit ancient.

People call me a Windows fanboy, it's just that there really isn't anything to beat it when it comes to versatility. Sure there are other good OS's, but they just aren't Windows, I know I've tried nearly all the other OS's.

I know a lot of people rubbish Windows 8 but once you get used to a slightly different way of working its actually quite a bit faster to get around and it runs on some ancient machines.

As far as Linux goes it certainly doesn't seem to have gained any traction over the years, like Tepid said, it takes money to keep people interested, you can only keep a hobby going for so long. Some of the people working on those projects must be pretty talented and sooner or later they're going to want some money.

As long as they keep those projects going I'll play around with them from time to time, and that Puppy is handy to have on a stick in case of emergencies.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Desktops vs Servers

As far as Linux goes it certainly doesn't seem to have gained any traction over the years, like Tepid said, it takes money to keep people interested, you can only keep a hobby going for so long. Some of the people working on those projects must be pretty talented and sooner or later they're going to want some money.

That might be true for desktops, but it isn't for servers.
Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pparks1]

Well Puppy Linux works like a charm and runs on my Notebook and Netbook, picked up my wireless network quick as lightning. If it works on my Netbook it will work on my friends. So it looks like I will be able to set it up for Zero cost for him, no extra ram or anything.

This will do him for what he wants, which is basically a Netbook.

Written on Puppy Linux.

Glad to hear that you got it working.

Anyway, my issues with Linux still stand, too many versions with too many flavors and not a single one is really ready for prime time.

Well, with respect to the sheer # of versions, that's one of the core principles of Linux distros. They are fully customizable and people are free to change them, respin them, and customize them for very specific purposes. This isn't going to go away.

You still have issues with some software that is really interesting to use (Conky for one) that only works on certain versions and flavors of GUI's, but seems to be abandoned or not really kept up with. That is Linux' greatest downfall, and always, always will be.

Yes, with all of the different distros, choices, customizations, and specific task built systems....you will always have these issues. And it will always be a problem, it has to be. The nature of Linux is to be completely and fully customizable. Nobody in the community will agree on 1 standard. It goes against everything that Linux stands for.

As for Vendors not supporting the drivers for the hardware for Linux, here again, it is very difficult to justify putting time into something that everyone expects everything to be free (The Linux Community). Not very many will code for Linux out of the goodness of their hearts, there has to be something in it. So, for a lot of people, it's a learning exercise, then they move on to what makes them money.

Almost all enterprise server class hardware is supported no problem. Truckloads of enterprise class software developed on and for Linux. The majority of the Internet backbone runs on this freebie software (dhcp, BIND DNS, Sendmail, Apache Web Server, MySQL, etc).

As far as their being something in it for them, there is. They get exactly what they want. They get great performance. They get security and stability. They get access to the source code to change or modify what they need. They get the satisfaction of providing something for the good of mankind. Many have full time jobs doing other things and develop these tools to solve problems they experience in the real world.

Check out Linux if you want, for some will find it is all they need, but to be honest, it's not easier to use than Windows. It really isn't. I am not saying this cause I find Linux difficult, i don't, but it's certainly not exactly easier to get software installed and working,, sure some of the more polished well known and distributed software, but a lot of obscure stuff just plain doesn't work, or is a pain to get working.

In many cases, even Linux fans won't tell you that Linux in many cases is easier to use than Windows.

However, for some specific tasks, like DNS servers, or FTP Servers, or Apache web servers...setting up a Linux box can be an absolute piece of cake. A kickstart install that takes less than 2 minutes, a system update, and a couple of config files put in place and it's up and running. I've run a CentOS based FTP server that handles around 1TB of monthly traffic, with 512MB of RAM and no downtime for about 3 years. All with no cost and drop dead simple to setup.

For the most part,, working with Windows, if your system is stable, you can install practically anything you can find without issue.
not so much with Linux.

Yes, again because there is 1 standard. You don't get choice, you cannot modify the code yourself to make it do exactly what you need and you have necessary costs and licensing associated with it. There are trade-offs for this ease of use and for most people and many cases, it's not a problem.

As for, "well you can learn to fix things, and code for what you want".
How many people actually have or even want to make time to do that?

Average joes...not so much. But look at all of the open source projects. These exist because people do have the time and the need to solve a particular problem. And like I said before, you can find the code snippets you need from forums and websites and you simply paste them into a file. This is simply not possible with Windows.

Linux has a few thousand+ miles more to go.

Yes, and probably always will. With freedom, comes tradeoffs. In the server room, I've found Linux awesome. On the desktop, far different story. Often due to hardware, peripherals and the like which simply don't have driver support.

One final note, the hardcore long time Linux community doens't like Ubuntu Unity, it's why it has slid in the number of downloads, they are flocking to Mint. This is another pitfall of Linux, the community moves in waves to what they think might be the next great OS, then find fault and move on.

Agreed. I used to use Ubuntu as my desktop. It was fast, stable and so universally used it was as close to a standard as possible..thus lots of software support and good documentation. I never preferred their server product though, I've always used Red Hat Enterprise Linux or CentOS (which is a respin of RHEL).

I left Ubuntu as a desktop because I hated Unity. Most people didn't leave Ubuntu because we felt that Linux Mint was the next best thing...we left because it wasn't the new thing that Ubuntu was shoving down our throats, which wasn't wanted, and didn't work particularly well. It's very reminiscent of Windows 8. And this is the beauty of Linux, when we didn't like what Ubuntu gave us, we were able to go elsewhere. Some view this as a downfall, and some see it as an advantage. I can see both sides, but I prefer the latter.

As far as Linux goes it certainly doesn't seem to have gained any traction over the years, like Tepid said, it takes money to keep people interested, you can only keep a hobby going for so long. Some of the people working on those projects must be pretty talented and sooner or later they're going to want some money.

It's had very little traction on the desktop, but in the server room, it's an entirely different story. Those server admins who didn't take the time to learn it, or don't have it as a valid option are really shortchanging themselves and spending far more money on licensing and dealing with compromises that they otherwise might be able to avoid.

 

[Tepid]

But please realize, we are not talking about the Server world, that is a strawman argument.

We are talking about average users.

 

[pparks1]

But please realize, we are not talking about the Server world, that is a strawman argument.

We are talking about average users.

I know, I commented on both. Average users probably don't know they have a choice or alternative to Windows except for Apple. And honestly, they probably don't with the peripherals and such they want to use.