The Pedant or "English as she is Spoke" and correcting it

[Kari]

As one of the non-native English speakers here I would like to add my two Euro cents.

I know I have no right to correct the spelling of a native English speaker, I do too many grammatical mistakes myself. That being said, I have to say that some things in English language never cease to amaze me, take for instance how non-native speakers apparently know better how and when to use "you're" and "your", or how to use "their", "there", "there's" and "they're"; it seems that these are quite difficult words to quite a many native English speakers whereas non-native speakers tend to get them correct. These just as an example, there are quite a many more.

Even if I understand and speak English enough to understand almost everything, being able to participate in these forums or watch TV and movies, listen to radio and understand everything, I sometimes insult other users due understanding something wrong. A few years back at our sister site the Seven Forums I managed to really misunderstand something and as my response was based on one misunderstood word, I managed to insult a respected group of people, the war veterans.

True story: We had been discussing about how to get Windows 7 for free, I am not sure but I think it was a thread where someone had donated a free Windows 7 DVD and a member was somewhat upset because he felt it went to wrong address. This member told, that I can remember, that he is "a vet" and could also use a free Windows. For me "a vet" means and I understood it to be a veterinarian, not a veteran. My response was short and insulting, I simply asked "what on earth are you complaining, you most certainly make enough to buy it".

I was told what the vet in this case meant, apologized and decided to use Google Translate from that day on if least unsure.

My own written English needs quite often to be corrected and I welcome the native English speakers to point my mistakes out. I have two mother tongues (Finnish and Swedish), I live in Germany and use English in my social circles. In my daily life I use these four languages which almost automatically leads to (sometimes comical) mistakes. Finnish has no prepositions which makes it difficult for me to select the correct one when talking English or German, German has the verb often at the end of the sentence (Ich habe in Berlin mehrere mal gewesen) whereas I have to remember to "re-place" it when translating the same in English (I have been in Berlin several times), a word by word translation creating a funny and grammatically wrong sentence (I have in Berlin several times been), Swedish "Öl" means beer, German "Öl" is oil, in pubs they do not always understand me ordering "Ein Öl, Bitte!". My daily life is full of situations where I use wrong language and terrible grammatics.

I would like to think I am quite polite here and try see the issue even between the lines, forgetting clumsy and sometimes seemingly arrogant output of other members especially if I think they are suffering from the same disability than I, non-native English. However, if I am sure I have understood everything correctly and think I or another member have been insulted, I tend to response with an insult. Can't help it, it has caused me a few warnings especially at the Seven Forums.

End of rant.

Kari

 

[popeye]

Great topic! As I said in another thread, it drives me nuts when I see blatant grammar, spelling and word choice errors. I do it myself but sometimes it is so obvious the person doesn't have a good grasp of the language. I give people whose first language is not English a complete pass though. I respect them for even speaking/writing another language.

Thing is, if you point out such grammatical errors you're made to feel like a complete jerk. I simply find it another case of the dumbing down of society. Especially when English is a person's primary language. In the US, many schools are even beginning to stop teaching cursive writing. Maybe just a reflection of our technical society I suppose.

 

[adamf]

Kari, I'm UK English and that is what "vet" means to me also. I'd like to claim that the first time I worked in the US I went to a shop said "can I get some fags" meaning cigarettes (fags meaning something else entirely in US English). I wanted to but was too scared to actually do it.

As for Their/There/They're the only excuse I can give is it was not fashionable to teach grammar in schools in the 70's. Better to let the kids 'learn for themselves'. I still couldn't name once tense or mood in English (I barely know what a verb is) but obviously could in French as I had to learn them.

 

[David Bailey]

Don't point out mistakes with an attitude of "I'm Superior to you".
The gentle way is to correct typos in the quoted text.
Maybe the OP will notice the corrections & do better in the future.

Being kind & gentle is the best approach in my opinion.

There are too many people with "superior" attitudes around.

In my part of the country they are known as "Rednecks" or "White trash".

Many belong to the KKK or similar White Supremacy groups.

I can elaborate on this scum if needed.

 

[popeye]

Don't point out mistakes with an attitude of "I'm Superior to you".
The gentle way is to correct typos in the quoted text.
Maybe the OP will notice the corrections & do better in the future.

Being kind & gentle is the best approach in my opinion.

There are too many people with "superior" attitudes around.

In my part of the country they are known as "Rednecks" or "White trash".

Many belong to the KKK or similar White Supremacy groups.

I can elaborate on this scum if needed.

David, I think the area I live in may have you beat when it comes to the crowd you're speaking of.

And yea, not being a total douche when correcting someone is a plus. Again, I don't do it most times anymore, isn't worth the possibility of the person blowing up even if nice about it.

 

[David Bailey]

I have never gotten a bad response from correcting text in quotes.
I really try to be nice to posters.

 

[Dwig]

I have never gotten a bad response from correcting text in quotes.
I really try to be nice to posters.

Also, it is critically important to correct any misuse of technical or common terms. If they are not corrected then the whole forum looses value as searching for a topic using the proper terminology fails to find threads where only the incorrect terminology is used or is misspelled.

If I respond to a post that uses the wrong term for something or misspells the correct term I see to it that I repeat the term correctly in my response so that a search will at least find my reply when it fails to find the original inquiry.

 

[popeye]

I have never gotten a bad response from correcting text in quotes.
I really try to be nice to posters.

Also, it is critically important to correct any misuse of technical or common terms. If they are not corrected then the whole forum looses value as searching for a topic using the proper terminology fails to find threads where only the incorrect terminology is used or is misspelled.

If I respond to a post that uses the wrong term for something or misspells the correct term I see to it that I repeat the term correctly in my response so that a search will at least find my reply when it fails to find the original inquiry.

That is a bit different. I was talking about general grammar and word usage, not something technically based that could cause misunderstanding when trying to help someone.

 

[David Bailey]

I have never gotten a bad response from correcting text in quotes.
I really try to be nice to posters.

Also, it is critically important to correct any misuse of technical or common terms. If they are not corrected then the whole forum "loses" value as searching for a topic using the proper terminology fails to find threads where only the incorrect terminology is used or is misspelled.

If I respond to a post that uses the wrong term for something or misspells the correct term I see to it that I repeat the term correctly in my response so that a search will at least find my reply when it fails to find the original inquiry.

Hope you don't mind my changing "looses" to "loses"

 

[davehc]

Or gotten to got - lol

Or "you're speaking of" to "of which we speak"

Let's close this thread!!!!!!!!!
(Don't examine my posts to closely !!!)

 

[Kari]

(Don't examine my posts to closely !!!)

Shouldn't it be too closely...

 

[davehc]

Lol!

 

[Atomcrusher]

Spare a thought for my dilemma .. I live in a country with 11 official languages ..

Languages of South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[adamf]

Spare a thought for my dilemma .. I live in a country with 11 official languages ..

And do any insist how ellipses are written... That will be... not ..

 

[davehc]

As a stranger in a foreign land (Denmark) I would like to add one further comment.
English is, without doubt, widely spoken over the whole globe. Even quite uneducated people can make themselves understood in the language. It can be abused, misused in the widest sense, and still, up to a point, be fully understood. This is the beauty of it.

Danish (Kadi may understand what I am saying), is a very pure and precise language. Whilst it has two or three dialects in Denmark, the pronunciation and grammar is constant. A badly pronounced word or two, or a badly constructed sentence, can often lead to a total misunderstanding. This is not a common experience when having a conversation in English, around the world.

With the greatest respect for the OP. Pedants can be irritating and even boring, in those foreign environments, where the second language, or even the primary language, is English, .

 

[merlin1949]

boring pedants

As a stranger in a foreign land (Denmark) I would like to add one further comment.
English is, without doubt, widely spoken over the whole globe. Even quite uneducated people can make themselves understood in the language. It can be abused, misused in the widest sense, and still, up to a point, be fully understood. This is the beauty of it.

Danish (Kadi may understand what I am saying), is a very pure and precise language. Whilst it has two or three dialects in Denmark, the pronunciation and grammar is constant. A badly pronounced word or two, or a badly constructed sentence, can often lead to a total misunderstanding. This is not a common experience when having a conversation in English, around the world.

With the greatest respect for the OP. Pedants can be irritating and even boring, in those foreign environments, where the second language, or even the primary language, is English, .

But that's the whole point of the thread, really.

My position is that being pedantic about one's own posts is dependent largely on one's early education and particularly the importance given by one's family in the home.My Mum was"keeper of the Civilising Influence" on the home front in our house. She also had two simple instruction sets in her battle to make acceptable members of Society out of her two male offspring. These were "Full speed ahead, Damn the torpedoes" and "Expect no quarter"

The two TOTALLY, NEVER to be broken Laws which she enforced with an iron hand both in private AND public were that "Close Enough is too far away" and "One NEVER corrected other people's misuse of English".

These
were Laws that you Ate and slept with, otherwise you may end up having to cook your own food and wash your own bedlinen.

Merlin

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Since most of Modern English seems to be based on Will Shakespeare - who actually Didn't write "Shakespeare" who is to say what English should be -- the base English was based on an erroneous authorship.

There WAS a will shakepeare who lived in Stratford upon Avon - but he wasn't an author. Stratford was at that time (like most urban areas in England) an impoverished Hell Hole - there's no way a poor farmer with barely a proper education could have in the late 1500's / early 1600's in England achieved writing the amount of literature he is alleged to have written - and found backers and money to stage this stuff in Far away London.

The works were probably written by one of the Aristrocracy / Earls at the time . There is no doubt that the author of the works was the SAME individual - but done by a person of whom we have ZERO records of his schooling, absolutely NOTHING written in his own handwriting and zero logistics records of putting on these shows -- OK 1580's England didn't have the best record keeping but people WERE paid and that sort of expense would have merited some sort of pecuniary records being available. With no documentary evidence whatsoever that the Stratford Will Shakespeare ever wrote a single thing makes for fairly convincing evidence that the author was indeed someone else - but 4 centuries of academia aren't going to admit they've been "conned" - are they. !!!

I'm afraid most of the UK's English Literature classes is based on a HUGE LIE !!

The Shakespearean Authorship Trust, who really wrote Shakespeare's plays?

(Don't read too much --it's really addictive following that subject though !!!!).

Perhaps another thread -- Who really wrote Shakespeares plays !!!!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[merlin1949]

Hi there


Perhaps another thread -- Who really wrote Shakespeares plays !!!!.

Cheers
jimbo

No sooner said than done, Jimbo.

Merlin

 

[davehc]

Like most schoolchildren at the time I went to school, I was forced, on the curriculum, to read and study Shakespeare. Even up to the age of 17, I could not comprehend many of the constructed sentences in his (?) works. That remains to this day. I saw no point then, and I see no point now, in making it a compulsory part of education. I have yet to encounter anyone who actually talks in that manner.
I did, in my early years, pick up a book, "Lambs Tales from Shakespeare",. This was great, and allowed me to read some fine plots, in more contemporary English.

Great fun joining in this thread. Thank you, Merlin, but I think I'll get back to the computer stuff now.
Hwyl fawr am nawr

 

[Superfly]

Like most schoolchildren at the time I went to school, I was forced, on the curriculum, to read and study Shakespeare. Even up to the age of 17, I could not comprehend many of the constructed sentences in his (?) works. That remains to this day. I saw no point then, and I see no point now, in making it a compulsory part of education. I have yet to encounter anyone who actually talks in that manner.
I did, in my early years, pick up a book, "Lambs Tales from Shakespeare",. This was great, and allowed me to read some fine plots, in more contemporary English.

Great fun joining in this thread. Thank you, Merlin, but I think I'll get back to the computer stuff now.
Hwyl fawr am nawr

Couldn't agree more,,,Having to study that useless literature crap was a PITA ( would have much rather focused on Science/Maths geeky stuff)

I just hope readers of my posts focus more on what I'm trying to convey rather than how it's being presented. I do tend to edit grammar stuff quite often, but sometimes I think, stuff it,,, it makes sense as is,,, not here to impress with an extensive vocabulary or what-not,