The one big fix that could save Windows 8

Microsoft Windows 8 has confused users and disappointed the PC industry. Windows chief Tami Reller all-but-admitted it last week. But, she also foreshadowed that help is on the way in Windows Blue. She confirmed that this Windows 8 update—which has now officially been dubbed Windows 8.1—will be previewed for users this summer and will go live in the fall.While it's rumored that the Blue update will reinstate the much-missed Start menu and allow users to boot into the Desktop Mode, it's highly unlikely Microsoft will do the one thing that would best fix Windows 8: Separate the desktop and tablet versions. That would require a surgery equivalent of separating conjoined twins, but it would have a powerful effect on both Microsoft's upstart tablet business and its traditional desktop base.

In the comments to the TechRepublic poll mentioned above, user PeterM42, an IT consultant in Great Britain, summed up the attitude that pervaded many of the Windows 8 naysayers when he wrote, "Windows 8 on the desktop will not take off until the Metro 'toy' interface becomes an option as provided by the superb 'Classic Shell' software (or gets ditched altogether). Corporates [sic] do not want to pay the MASSIVE bill for retraining users to use something which basically is rubbish."

The one big fix that could save Windows 8 | ZDNet

 

[Coke Robot]

Problem is, not all users are as genius as you are when it comes to doing this kind of stuff. I know it doesn't take a genius to do that. But consider all the frustrations users have to undergo before eventually figuring that out. It all boils down to the most important concept when it comes to computers.... "user-friendly".

Hi there
Agreed.

For instance if you install a large application like Visual Studio 2012 (full version) or the CS6 Adobe suite where every .EXE file creates a tile which can be anywhere on the start screen how does the poor user know WHICH are the important ones and which are the "rubbish" tiles that can sensibly be deleted - not only that you won't necessarily KNOW if the tiles that appear are part of the application you are installing.

It is DEFINITELY NOT A TRIVIAL TASK to sort out this dogs dinner of a mess and if coke robot thinks it is and is within the competence of "typical users" - and a typical user doesn't have to be an IT Guru to use Adobe CS6 for example - he must be sniffing too much of the white powdery stuff.

Cheers
jimbo

double ditto on that.

In a big corporation the IT guy is going to tweak all of that for the user and just make a custom deployment image. Even then though you're likely to end up with a different images for different departments etc. It's still going to be a major headache for some poor sole. And even then there will still be training for the end user on what's what and how to use the hot corners etc. If you don't all your PC's will be on 24/7 as no one will be able to figure out how to turn them off from Windows.

No you have to be an "IT guru" to figure that one out. Somehow context was obviously lost after someone posted about something in the corporate setting and I posted that it's not that difficult to create an image without apps....

If the average user is installing the WHOLE Adobe CS6 suite, they're not a typical user AT ALL. If one were to be doing that, I'd definitely imagine they'd know what is rubbish and what isn't. Usually, things like Adobe Bridge and InDesign kind of have more prevalence than an html help file.

Not a lot of coke is needed to figure that one out.

 

[Coke Robot]

Problem is, not all users are as genius as you are when it comes to doing this kind of stuff. I know it doesn't take a genius to do that. But consider all the frustrations users have to undergo before eventually figuring that out. It all boils down to the most important concept when it comes to computers.... "user-friendly".

I would hope at least system admins are genius enough to figure that one out...

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

How I not be getting it? There is literally nothing to comprehend other than an IT admin's ability of understanding what to do in a corporate setting with Windows 8.

 

[SIW2]

Are you asking Cokie to think ?

You would have more luck asking a boulder to fly.

Problem is, not all users are as genius as you are when it comes to doing this kind of stuff. I know it doesn't take a genius to do that. But consider all the frustrations users have to undergo before eventually figuring that out. It all boils down to the most important concept when it comes to computers.... "user-friendly".

I would hope at least system admins are genius enough to figure that one out...

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

 

[jimbo45]

Are you asking Cokie to think ?

You would have more luck asking a boulder to fly.

I would hope at least system admins are genius enough to figure that one out...

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

Hi there
That's the trouble with this dogs dinner of an OS UI -- people are always told to think OUTSIDE the GODDxxn-d Box -- however this is definitely a case where you need to think INSIDE the wretched box or certainly keep it tightly closed.

People just want to be able to install something and then USE IT without having to go through all sorts of rings to find and remove redundant tiles.

Somehow I think some PARTICULAR people on this thread probably actually have NEVER REALLY USED a computer ("The Robot" for instance -- We've often asked you for suggestions since you seem to imply it's easy and anybody can organise the tiles properly -- but your answers seem to be mechanical responses irrespective of the questions asked -- well I suppose ROBOT is in the name somewhere so perhaps the responses are appropriate).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

Are you asking Cokie to think ?

You would have more luck asking a boulder to fly.

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

Hi there
That's the trouble with this dogs dinner of an OS UI -- people are always told to think OUTSIDE the GODDxxn-d Box -- however this is definitely a case where you need to think INSIDE the wretched box or certainly keep it tightly closed.

People just want to be able to install something and then USE IT without having to go through all sorts of rings to find and remove redundant tiles.

Somehow I think some PARTICULAR people on this thread probably actually have NEVER REALLY USED a computer ("The Robot" for instance -- We've often asked you for suggestions since you seem to imply it's easy and anybody can organise the tiles properly -- but your answers seem to be mechanical responses irrespective of the questions asked -- well I suppose ROBOT is in the name somewhere so perhaps the responses are appropriate).

Cheers
jimbo

Wow, I guess it's so bloody obtuse and difficult to right click on a tile you KNOW you don't need that you obviously need SOMEONE else to figure out because honestly, I don't believe you even use Windows 8 to begin with. You're insinuating I'VE never used a computer? Preposterous. Your responses are purely complaints about the same thing over and over and over and over again, some people with intelligence will actually try to find a solution themselves or seek out a good one. You on the other hand prefer not to.

 

[Coke Robot]

Are you asking Cokie to think ?

You would have more luck asking a boulder to fly.

I would hope at least system admins are genius enough to figure that one out...

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

Excuse me?

 

[fourthofjuly]

I would hope at least system admins are genius enough to figure that one out...

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

How I not be getting it? There is literally nothing to comprehend other than an IT admin's ability of understanding what to do in a corporate setting with Windows 8.

You are thinking about corporate environment coke. And I don't think Windows 8 will even reach that level of getting into any big businesses. We are talking about typical home users. Users NOT like us.

 

[SIW2]

You don't need to be excused.

Your posts have enormous entertainment value.

That is good thing. Keep it up.

 

[Coke Robot]

You just don't get it coke. Think outside the box.

How I not be getting it? There is literally nothing to comprehend other than an IT admin's ability of understanding what to do in a corporate setting with Windows 8.

You are thinking about corporate environment coke. And I don't think Windows 8 will even reach that level of getting into any big businesses. We are talking about typical home users. Users NOT like us.

Yeah, that's exactly why I said to remove the apps and whatnot to create a custom install image for an enterprise setting. Windows 8 may not get anywhere in the enterprise as of now, but in the further future, possibly yes.

But talking about typical users, if you don't like the apps, just uninstall them. Not that difficult.

 

[Coke Robot]

You don't need to be excused.

Your posts have enormous entertainment value.

That is good thing. Keep it up.

And I'm the one doing coke?..... What are you talking about?

 

[fourthofjuly]

How I not be getting it? There is literally nothing to comprehend other than an IT admin's ability of understanding what to do in a corporate setting with Windows 8.

You are thinking about corporate environment coke. And I don't think Windows 8 will even reach that level of getting into any big businesses. We are talking about typical home users. Users NOT like us.

Yeah, that's exactly why I said to remove the apps and whatnot to create a custom install image for an enterprise setting. Windows 8 may not get anywhere in the enterprise as of now, but in the further future, possibly yes.

But talking about typical users, if you don't like the apps, just uninstall them. Not that difficult.

And now we're back to square one. Hahaha. I don't know how your brain works man. I give up.

 

[Coke Robot]

You are thinking about corporate environment coke. And I don't think Windows 8 will even reach that level of getting into any big businesses. We are talking about typical home users. Users NOT like us.

Yeah, that's exactly why I said to remove the apps and whatnot to create a custom install image for an enterprise setting. Windows 8 may not get anywhere in the enterprise as of now, but in the further future, possibly yes.

But talking about typical users, if you don't like the apps, just uninstall them. Not that difficult.

And now we're back to square one. Hahaha. I don't know how your brain works man. I give up.

There was literally no context there to begin with to even discuss something like this.... Nothing to extrapolate on.

 

[alphanumeric]

Coke doesn't get it because he doesn't want to get it. He has no intention of ever getting it. Does anyone really think that he will back track at this stage and ever admit there is even one flaw in Windows 8? Isn't going to happen. Not based on what he's said over and over again so far. He'll just make up another story about someone he knows who.......yada yada yada.

It might take me 20 minutes to customize my Windows 7 install the way I like it. I can spend hours just customizing that reached Start screen to get stuff where I want it and only the stuff I want on it. Every time you install a program its wash rinse repeat. The interface formally know as metro is a PITA on a non touch device, for most people. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Rickkins]

Coke doesn't get it because he doesn't want to get it. He has no intention of ever getting it. Does anyone really think that he will back track at this stage and ever admit there is even one flaw in Windows 8? Isn't going to happen. Not based on what he's said over and over again so far. He'll just make up another story about someone he knows who.......yada yada yada.

I believe the above statement to be accurate....

 

[fourthofjuly]

Coke doesn't get it because he doesn't want to get it. He has no intention of ever getting it. Does anyone really think that he will back track at this stage and ever admit there is even one flaw in Windows 8? Isn't going to happen. Not based on what he's said over and over again so far. He'll just make up another story about someone he knows who.......yada yada yada.

It might take me 20 minutes to customize my Windows 7 install the way I like it. I can spend hours just customizing that reached Start screen to get stuff where I want it and only the stuff I want on it. Every time you install a program its wash rinse repeat. The interface formally know as metro is a PITA on a non touch device, for most people. Your mileage may vary.

And what I don't really get is why he keeps his sig. He's the only one who just don't get it. His brain does all the thinking inside a box.

 

[legacy7955]

And what I don't really get is why he keeps his sig. He's the only one who just don't get it. His brain does all the thinking inside a box.

That is signature material right there.

That's what's actually pretty amusing. I honestly don't think he can put himself in the place of others utilize that information. That seems like "inside the box" thinking to me.

 

[chrisa]

You know I'm a big desktop fan and desktop PC user....but the fact remains...that this is going to be the future of the OS's. It's in it's infancy stage right now....if one could look past their personal perception of it and try to see what MS see's and is betting on for the future of computer OS and how eventually all devices will seamlessly interface with each other is mind boggling to say the least. Who knows what the next decade will bring but I'm certainly curious about it.

Funny. For those of us around in the mid 80's, everybody from Apple was telling everybody that GUI's and mice were the future and they should get used to it. In the end, they were certainly correct, but that didn't stop them from almost going broke and having Microsoft eat their lunch.

Personally, I think the future for this generation ultimately belongs to Google. Apple got there first, but ultimately they don't have the vision or the hunger at the top to really get after stuff.

In all likelihood, Windows is this generation's mainframes, and I'm sure there will be jobs for a good decade or so for old Windows Developers, ala the Cobol and Fortran guys, but ultimately what comes next is more than likely centered around Android and Chrome OS. They have the users, the hardware base, and enough money to keep building until they actually get to a 'Win 95' stage where everything comes together on both mobile and ultimately hybrid applications to really achieve a synergy between the two.

Microsoft can scream it from the rooftops all they want, if they don't get the users in the mobile arena and the hardware base, its a moot point. Ballmer is largely an idiot beancounter, and his moves reflect that. Gates is completely checked out, diversified and way too busy with the philanthrophy stuff to care. I personally think he's smart enough to know that Microsoft will certainly carry on and have good development ala IBM, but they won't be an industry driver ever again.

But then, its fairly rare that any tech industry leader really gets more than one generation(talking 20-30 years) at the top. It really takes hunger and drive and innovation to stay there and people frankly get old and fresh blood figures out a better way.

 

[Ray8]

The reason Apple PCs became kind of irrelevant was because they wanted to own the entire eco-system. Microsoft took the view that software was the important thing and who made the platform that it ran on was more or less irrelevant. The rest is history.

The GUI is still as relevant as the day it was invented, as is the mouse (the one with scroll wheel and multiple buttons, not Apple's version), the keyboard, the fat fingers of fate, the evil eyes and whatever else comes in the future.

Google is the biggest threat to Microsoft ever, but they want to fight Google like Pepsi tries to fight Coca Cola. It's no contest when it comes to Google's claim to territory, even Apple is at risk in the mobile world.

The problem is, Microsoft is trying to do it all at once and, in doing so, is putting all of its eggs in the one basket and alienating its huge userbase. However, it's not the first time Microsoft has had a massive fail.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I often wonder whether some people (and I think they know who they are) actually READ other people's posts and attempt to answer their problems rather than just mouthing the same stuff over and over again --rather like those canned responses you get when trying to phone up a Bank and have to go through those horrendous off shored Call centres.

For instance @alphanumeric makes an absolutely VALID point about having to re-organise the start menu over again after installing stuff -- we all know the W8 install process is hideously flawed when installing traditional COMPLEX desktop type applications - but the BIGGEST supporter of W8 here (No names mentioned !!! but I'm sure we all know who I'm referring to) offers absolutely no help or suggestions on how to simplify the process -- and merely states that "Normal users" do not use things like CS6.

Normal users install ALL SORTS of applications - some simple and some complex and the whole start screen IS of genuine concern to these users.

I'd also like to suggest that even if you are used to say a smart mobile phone - I'd say that once you have around 2 - 3 dozen applications installed on it this type of interface is still TEDIOUS to use even on a phone -- and at least on a phone the tiles have different distinct icons unlike standard desktop apps installed on W8.

I'd just like to test the developers of the W8 metro GU with some mobile phones with say 150 apps installed on them and let them mess around with these for a while --they'll soon see the limitations of the Metro interface even on a mobile device.


Note though of course Ms will "diminish" in the software area -- for lots of cases etc Google makes a refreshing competitive entrant - but there will for generations yet be a requirement for "stand alone computers" not connected to the cloud / internet. - Robotics is a case in point - I suggest you see that film "I Robot" to see the dangers of having devices always connected to the internet even if it were possible. Virtual Reality / Holographic technology and medical use hardware requires other sort of software which Microsoft together with others will supply in the future so Ms won't go away - but Windows will diminish in importance as we progess into the future - but we will STILL NEED IT.

Ms might be morphing more into this type of hardware / software mix together with operating as a service organisation (aka IBM)

Mainframes aren't dead by a long way either -- their use has changed significantly though.

Enc screenshot of old IBM mainframe OS (running on a laptop !!!) with a TSO session too. Anybody remember that --IBM MVS/370 - 3.8G !!

Cheers
jimbo