The Great Upgrade Upheaval

The final rollout of Windows 8 is now beginning and it will be loaded on all the new machines. I can assure you, though, that just as with the transition from XP to Vista, nobody will want to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. What's the point? Windows 7 works fine and Windows 8 is odd.

Talk about negative, lol.

Source

A Guy

 

[Vertex]

I still think portable applications that are FREEWARE are more consistent and leave less traces behind than normal installs. I still think that software made by Microsoft just installs so many things with it (like MS Office), leaving a lot of junk and orphaned Registry entries when removed. Why didn't Microsoft have a built-in Registry utility in their operating systems to remove absolutely unneeded entries in the Registry? Because clutter in the Registry is said to degrade performance which is most prevalent with lesser-end machines like the ones I used and observed.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I still think portable applications that are FREEWARE are more consistent and leave less traces behind than normal installs. I still think that software made by Microsoft just installs so many things with it (like MS Office), leaving a lot of junk and orphaned Registry entries when removed. Why didn't Microsoft have a built-in Registry utility in their operating systems to remove absolutely unneeded entries in the Registry? Because clutter in the Registry is said to degrade performance which is most prevalent with lesser-end machines like the ones I used and observed.

Well stated, Vertex! I often wondered the same thing about MS and a registry cleaner utility. I often find cluttered registries when helping people with their systems. I bought and use one, but one must be careful using 3rd party maintenance utilities, for most are badly written. One must be careful when dealing with the registry.

I noticed one in CC Cleaner. Can anyone comment on how well that one works?

 

[Hopachi]

I bought and use one, but one must be careful using 3rd party maintenance utilities, for most are badly written. One must be careful when dealing with the registry.

I noticed one in CC Cleaner. Can anyone comment on how well that one works?

CCleaner (default settings) works well for me. It just deletes basic stuff and obsolete entries and there is a low risk of damage.
You can always backup the entire registry if you need safety.
Manually:

Then zip (archive) it and it will take less space!

Tools that go more advanced + optimizers can pose more problems if not used properly.
NTREGOPT defragments the registry hive and reduces it's space: ERUNT and NTREGOPT but even this one seems to be safe (for me) since I didn't noticed any issues after a few runs.

Still, it's good to be safe and think about possible consequences before running 3rd party tools.

By problems, revert back form backup or BETTER: System Restore.

 

[Mustang]

I noticed one in CC Cleaner. Can anyone comment on how well that one works?

Glary Utilities is totally freeware that won a lot of awards, including a 5 out of 5 star rating by CNet editor, and 4 out of 5 by users.

I was referred to it by a friend who is a Computer Scientist graduate, and have been using it for over two years on Vista Ult 32bit, and Win7 Ult 64bit, and have not had any problems.

It auto backs up any registry entries repaired or deleted. It has a total of five very useful modules:

• Clean-up & Repair
• Optimize & Improve
• Privacy & Security
• Files & Folders
• System Tools.

Each module has four or five sub-menus, including things like restore accidentally deleted files, file splitter and rejoiner, start-up manager ... and the list goes on.

The Clean-up & Repair module includes:

• Registry Cleaner, (fixes invalid or incorrect registry entries)
• Short Cuts Fixer
• Startup Manager, (to clean up dangerous entries)
• Temporary Files Cleaner
• Track Eraser
• Spyware Remover.

The only thing I untick is Short Cuts Fixer, as it deleted my unused short cuts. Spyware Remover is fairly quick to run so does not replace my two other programs, Malwarebytes and Super Antispyware. I also run Avast AV & Zone Alarm.

Another freeware registry cleaner I found to be very safe and with auto backup is Easy Cleaner by ToniArts. However, after running it, and then running Glary, a lot more entries were detected by Glary that EasyCleaner missed.

 

[A Guy]

CCleaner is not aggressive. It is the only registry cleaner I can recommend universally. I have, and use, a few that I have tested over time on my particular machine, and it's unique settings. But even after years of use, I still only use them after making system images. CCleaner I use with impunity, no concern at all for me, or in recommending. A Guy

 

[lehnerus2000]

Registry Cleaners

I use CCleaner and Glary Utilities regularly.
I use them (and defrag) when I create my backup HDD images before installing Patch Tuesday updates.

I use both because they detect different "problems" (different databases?).
I used to use ASC as well, but I got sick of its constant "upgrade now" pop-ups.

I've used CC and GU for years (on XP and W7) with only the one or two incidents.

Once after an update, I forgot to check the settings and CCleaner "cleaned" my FF session.

The other incident invovled MS Project.
I needed to use MS Project for a few weeks (for my network course).
MS Project creates at least one empty Registry key and if you remove it, MS Project refuses to load saved files.
It claimed that my saved file was corrupted.
I reinstalled the program and "lo and behold", my saved file worked perfectly.

If you are unsure about any of your programs, you can create a backup image and test the cleaner.
If there are problems you can simply re-image your PC.

As other people have mentioned, CCleaner offers you the chance to backup the changes it is going to make.
Glary Utilities automatically creates a backup.


That said, I haven't used them many times on W8.

 

[Mustang]

I use CCleaner and Glary Utilities regularly.
I use them (and defrag) when I create my backup HDD images before installing Patch Tuesday updates.

I use both because they detect different "problems" (different databases?).
I used to use ASC as well, but I got sick of its constant "upgrade now" pop-ups.

I've used CC and GU for years (on XP and W7) with only the one or two incidents.

Once after an update, I forgot to check the settings and CCleaner "cleaned" my FF session.

The other incident invovled MS Project.
I needed to use MS Project for a few weeks (for my network course).
MS Project creates at least one empty Registry key and if you remove it, MS Project refuses to load saved files.
It claimed that my saved file was corrupted.
I reinstalled the program and "lo and behold", my saved file worked perfectly.

If you are unsure about any of your programs, you can create a backup image and test the cleaner.
If there are problems you can simply re-image your PC.

As other people have mentioned, CCleaner offers you the chance to backup the changes it is going to make.
Glary Utilities automatically creates a backup.

That said, I haven't used them many times on W8.

Yes, that fairly accurately describes what I do. About once a year I clean my HD by deleting the partition to remove any boot data, then create a new partiton and do an unconditional format on it. Then I reload Windows, put in the mobo drivers, activate it, and do an Acronis backup image. Then I load all my 3rd party programs, and get all the updates; defrag it, if it is a spinner HD, and do a 2nd Acronis backup image. Finally I reload all my music, documents, and personal stuff from a storage partiton or ext USB HD.

I regularly update all my personal stuff onto the external storage. So in the event of a total crash, it only takes a relatively short time to reload the OS from the Acronis image, with all 3rd party programs, and drag/drop all my personal stuff back onto the HD. Since the image may be up to 4 or 5 months old, it's necessary to update all applications, etc.

The purpose of the 1st bare bones image is if I want to do a new virgin installation of Windows without any third party stuff. This may happen if I've upgraded a program or printer say, or removed some apps. The bare bones is already activated and it saves haviing to use the Windows installation disc.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Me too

The purpose of the 1st bare bones image is if I want to do a new virgin installation of Windows without any third party stuff. This may happen if I've upgraded a program or printer say, or removed some apps. The bare bones is already activated and it saves haviing to use the Windows installation disc.

I do that too (for the same reason).
I use Macrium Reflect as my imager though.

I image my important data (3x operating systems, documents and pictures) every month before I install the Patch Tuesday updates (Patch Wednesday for me ).

I don't have enough external storage to backup my music (~86 GB) and videos (~950 GB) every month though.
I have backups of that data on two external HDDs.

 

[Max Peck]

A central settings repository is a good idea, but that isn't the real function that the Registry serves.

Now that I think about it, you're probably at-least partially right. When I saw the comment about DRM I thought the comment was mainly about DRM as it pertains to music files. I have worked with the registry pretty extensively but didn't think of it as "mainly" for DRM. From a developer's perspective I saw it more as configuration control that was "supposed" to be standardized and central enough for applications to develop consistency in the way they store configuration. While I personally think INI files and "portability" are good ideas too, storing thousands of COM class entries in INI files wouldn't make sense. The implementation of COM on a Windows system without a registry would be a nightmare.

There's a give-and-take in any design I suppose.

As for the existence of DRM in DOS ... yeah, it was just not called DRM yet - they called it "copy protection". As for portability of applications, true ... unless someone put "copy protection" into place on their product (a-la Lotus 123, etc.). What a nightmare that was.

-Max

 

[lehnerus2000]

I probably should have ...

A central settings repository is a good idea, but that isn't the real function that the Registry serves.

Now that I think about it, you're probably at-least partially right. When I saw the comment about DRM I thought the comment was mainly about DRM as it pertains to music files. I have worked with the registry pretty extensively but didn't think of it as "mainly" for DRM. From a developer's perspective I saw it more as configuration control that was "supposed" to be standardized and central enough for applications to develop consistency in the way they store configuration.

I probably should have been a bit more specific in my OP (I meant all software not just media files).

While I personally think INI files and "portability" are good ideas too, storing thousands of COM class entries in INI files wouldn't make sense. The implementation of COM on a Windows system without a registry would be a nightmare.

There's a give-and-take in any design I suppose.

As for the existence of DRM in DOS ... yeah, it was just not called DRM yet - they called it "copy protection". As for portability of applications, true ... unless someone put "copy protection" into place on their product (a-la Lotus 123, etc.). What a nightmare that was.

-Max

I think that in the "good old days" one file (ini?) held the program settings and the other (dat?) held the user settings (or vice versa).
Maybe it depended on the developer.

In Linux some features have multiple config files, which can get a bit scary.
"Am I editing the correct file?"

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Thanks to all for the answers on CC Cleaner

I thought the whole idea MS had of the Registry is a unified database of configuration settings?

 

[MisterApathy]

My upgrade to Windows 8 RTM from Windows 7 Ultimate was flawless, I didnt lose anything, all of my apps still functioned... I think people are mostly just whiney bitches, if you dont like it dont use it, if you do like it use it... its really that simple

 

[HAS]

I was not sure about Win 8 at first, but after using it for 4 months, I much prefer it to XP. Whether I would change from Win7 is a different matter.

 

[lehnerus2000]

It's both DRM and Settings

Thanks to all for the answers on CC Cleaner

I thought the whole idea MS had of the Registry is a unified database of configuration settings?

There can be no dispute that the Registry is full of settings information.

Max Peck states that it is handy for software developers (I'm not a developer so I can't dispute this).

My opinion is based on how the Registry actually operates (rather than what MS claims it does) and IMO, it's main function is to stop you moving software around (on your own machine or between machines).

It's easy to test.
Install some software and then move the program directory.
A lot of programs won't run (or won't run correctly) if you do that.

In Windows, the settings know where the program is supposed to be.

In Linux, the programs know where the settings are supposed to be ("/etc").

Before the Registry most software ran from floppy discs (only "High performance" machines had HDDs).
This meant it was what we now call portable (even the OS was portable).

 

[MisterApathy]

On the other side of that particular argument though...

A LOT of applications will detect you have moved them and regenerate their own registry settings (i.e World of Warcraft), this is usually the case with apps that realise you are a real person and may occasionally need to move something.

The second argument is that if you own the media already, then it shouldn't really be a problem for you to reinstall that application correctly...

The third argument is that it does actually keep sensitive configuration information away from Grandma, she cant accidentally delete her config or modify it without knowing what the config actually does.

There are reasons the registry exists, and really at the end of the day its up to the developers how much or how little of it they use, so go chase those ****ers with the stick

 

[lehnerus2000]

Interesting

A LOT of applications will detect you have moved them and regenerate their own registry settings (i.e World of Warcraft), this is usually the case with apps that realise you are a real person and may occasionally need to move something.

I've never come across one of those (I don't play WoW).

It must have been written by sane (or at least competent) people.

I have come across programs whose exe files will still run (obviously the Windows integration is missing).

The third argument is that it does actually keep sensitive configuration information away from Grandma, she cant accidentally delete her config or modify it without knowing what the config actually does.

That problem has been pretty much eliminated with the protected locations system.

 

[MisterApathy]

I guess my point being, that at the end of the day its up to the developers whether they use it or not, nothing forces them to.
But for storing various settings, integrating with windows correctly, and keeping some things away from the end-user if theyre things the end-user could get in trouble with... its a good thing to have available.

I am sure developers could point out 100 reasons its a great thing.

The real lesson from this kinda sub-discussion of the main thread should be - the registry generally speaking will contain a degree of information which should be routinely checked/cleaned, and if you are reinstalling/upgrading you should always be careful to verify whether any individual components/applications will behave correctly during that.

In the case of Win 7 to Win 8, it will give you a compatability report before you even run the upgrade, the few things I had which failed I didnt really need and uninstalled. But everything else worked perfectly (in my personal experience of course, there could be horror stories out there somewhere too)