"System Managed" Paging File Seems Low

[vrosa]

Generally the rule of "1,5x RAM" is applicable to systems with 4GB or less. I have 8192MB of RAM and I have set PF to 4096MB, what works fine for any task !

 

[Hopachi]

If a config works, keep it.

There is no specific recommendation for page file size. Your requirements will be based on the hardware and software that you use and the load that you put on the computer.

There are also some methods described how to calculate the pagefile size for specific computer usage using performance logs.

Link: How to determine the appropriate page file size for 64-bit versions of Windows

In looking at telemetry data from thousands of traces and focusing on pagefile reads and writes, we find that

• Pagefile.sys reads outnumber pagefile.sys writes by about 40 to 1,
• Pagefile.sys read sizes are typically quite small, with 67% less than or equal to 4 KB, and 88% less than 16 KB.
• Pagefile.sys writes are relatively large, with 62% greater than or equal to 128 KB and 45% being exactly 1 MB in size.

Link: Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

[cluberti]

Indeed - which is why putting a paging file on an SSD, if you've got the space, is a wise move. The patterns that Microsoft found and published in that blog post line up exactly with what an SSD is good at.

 

[Nemix]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I've been doing so research and some of my own testing for the minimum pagefile size for Windows 8/8.1 (64-Bit) since I have a 128GB SSD and really don't want space wasted.

I've come to the conclusion specifically for systems running Windows 8/8.1 (64-Bit) like in my case with a smaller SSD where space is valuable, the minimum pagefile should be no less 2GB and NOT disabled even if you've got 16/32GB ram simply for software compatibility and system stability.

I came up with this number by simply looking at Microsoft's minimum/recommended memory requirement for Windows 8/8.1 (64-Bit) which is 2GB and then luckily having an old 2GB memory stick laying around I decided to test out Windows 8.1 RTM (64-Bit) with just 2GB ram to see what Windows would recommend the pagefile size to be, it's 2GB even with 2GB of ram.

Oddly enough having tried Windows 8.1 RTM (64-Bit) a couple weeks back with 8GB ram, Windows recommends 4GB as the pagefile which is actually half the size when 8GB is installed but that's not the case with only 2GB ram installed, so in conclusion once again the confirmed minimum pagefile size for Windows 8/8.1 (64-Bit) is 2GB and no less no matter how much memory you have installed.

Cheers,

 

[Hopachi]

You have good values there Nemix,

I once had 1GB as a minimum which I doubt now.

Doing a clean install of Windows 8.1 x64 sets a recommended (system managed) size of around 5GB for 16GB of RAM.
This means that it's not a static value and it can grow up to a maximum of 16GB pagefile for 16GB RAM on SSD. And yes it did: I was running a Win7 x64 Virtual Machine with 8GB RAM and the pagefile went up by itself. The VM went over it's 8GB RAM and had a page file of 12GB. The one on the host (16GB) never got smaller again because the machine "predicts" that I'll use that VM again... and since I have enough space on the SSD, I'll let the system keep its 16GB pagefile for the sake of system stability and performance.

In case a 16GB pagefile really gets used, it will probably get less input and output than a 1 or 2GB fixed one for the same system load: if there is a lot of data to process, the smaller pagefile will have to be emptied and filled many times to match up with the 16GB pagefile. I'm not using fixed size anymore, I'll let the system manage it... or I fix it at the RAM's size.

Your 2GB system managed pagefile remained small because the current system usage allows it. Your pagefile is expected to grow larger if you use programs that eat up a lot of RAM. It's just to prevent serious issues in case the memory runs out, it doesn't mean you will run out of memory (will not happen in the most cases).

Cheers
Hopachi

 

[DooRules]

Been on w8, w8.1 preview and now the 8.1 rtm since they came out. My system has 16 gb's ram and pagefile disabled since day 1. No issues I am aware of at all.

 

[Nemix]

Been on w8, w8.1 preview and now the 8.1 rtm since they came out. My system has 16 gb's ram and pagefile disabled since day 1. No issues I am aware of at all.

If you can afford to get 16GB ram why not leave a static minimum 2GB pagefile as recommended so to not run into any non foreseeable problems with system stability or software that require a pagefile present.

It's been proven and there's no arguing that disabling the pagefile does NOT speed up the OS or programs and in return can lead to system stability problems or software simply refusing to work.

With that being said, it's highly recommended and I can't stress this enough to NOT disable the pagefile and leave at least 2GB pagefile minimum regardless of how much memory you have installed, in the case you're on a super small SSD like 64GB or less move the pagefile to a secondary hard drive (most mechanical and will be slower if programs require the pagefile) or upgrade your SSD if you're completely out of space.

Cheers,

 

[cluberti]

If you disable the pagefile, you stop the modified page writer from being able to push unused pages on the modified list off to the paging file, which means more memory in use. While this in and of itself isn't a bad thing (normally, unused memory is wasted memory), pages on the modified list aren't actively in use by the program that originally requested and used them, and this keeps things like Windows' caches (or even processes that need memory, under load) from being able to use that memory that would/could otherwise be paged out as unused, but still potentially needed if the app asks for that data again. Those pages on the modified list won't go away unless they're re-used (and put back on the active list) or the program that used them is closed. Thus, it really *is* wasted memory by not being used by something that's actually in use, which in this one very specific instance, can actually be a bad thing.

Not having a paging file is fine, but having one doesn't make normal usage any slower either (and again, under load, not having one is a detriment).

We've all read the Mark Russinovich posts about the paging file (if you haven't, do so), and if you're an internals/perf guy, you've probably read and use the Windows Internals books and know what's in there about this too, so I won't rehash those. However, there are also really good things out there not by Mark Russinovich about memory usage, the paging file, the memory manager, etc. that answer these and other questions, so perhaps a quick read of this, and then this, might help clarify some things

 

[Hopachi]

Yes, why bother so much for such a small space the pagefile needs...

Space is not an issue (16GB is zilch compared to 250GB or 128GB of the drive) so for this example I leave the pagefile at 16GB. You can make it smaller, 2GB fixed size...

Either way, it's IMO a good configuration.

If I'll have insufficient space in the (far) future, I'll use a fixed 2GB pagefile or even a 1GB one, but I never fill the disk 'up to the edge' in the first place. Place two disks then, even 15inch laptops can handle that with the right disk caddy.

By looking at some possibilities and scenarios, including cluberti's posts, disabling the pagefile is not the best solution available if you really need disk space.

But in the end, each user can go with his preferred method and pagefile size.
Case closed.

 

[my2cents]

I am with the others that agree a page file is not required (at least for my purposes). I have used XP w/3GBs of RAM, Win 7 w/4GBs of RAM, Win 8 w/8GBs of RAM, and Win 8.1 Preview w/8GBs of RAM and never had an active page file. I can only say that I never had a single issue related to having it disabled. However, I have noticed on 8.1 Preview that I was/am getting and error log that indicates that the "crash dump initialization failed" (presumably because the page file was disabled) so if you get frequent BSODs or anticipate them going forward, you might want to create a minimal page file size to eliminate that log.

 

[Nemix]

I'm still gonna stick with my 2GB pagefile minimum recommendation and if you'd like to further decrease the pagefile in Windows 8/8.1 (64-Bit) then just manually set the minimum to 16MB and maximum to 2GB (which is the minimum recommended size) and let the pagefile grow as it's needed up to 2GB.

Having said that in the end I guess to each his own then when it comes to pagefile size one wants on his system, Microsoft does NOT recommends disabling the pagefile for good reason but ummm...forget it.

I think this thread is done...I been stand corrected and I guess I won't bother sticking my noise into threads solely based on one's opinion and awareness and not actual fact not to mention I pretty much brought this upon myself raising this thread up from the grave out of nowhere.

My apologies, please close the thread...

 

[my2cents]

I guess to each his own then when it comes to pagefile size

Agreed!

Microsoft does NOT recommends disabling the pagefile

Agreed, but they are not against disabling the pagefile as long as proper conditions are met.


I have excerpted this Microsoft statement from the full article that follows (via link):

The 64-bit versions of Windows can support more RAM than the 32-bit versions of these products. When a lot of memory is added to a computer, a paging file may not be required.

Full article:
How to determine the appropriate page file size for 64-bit versions of Windows

No apologies necessary IMHO. I think you did good!

 

[LMiller7]

With adequate RAM you will probably never need a pagefile. But that isn't the point.
The popular misconception (even among many computer professionals) is that the pagefile is some kind of necessary evil. If you just have enough RAM you can disable the pagefile and performance will be much better. Statements like that can be found all over the Internet, and often made by people who should know better.

The pagefile was designed to optimize the use of RAM, however much you may have. Disable it and you will pay the price in performance. Of course if you have a large amount of RAM for your workload that impairment will probably not be noticed. There are specific situations where a disabled pagefile will improve some aspect of performance. But overall it will suffer.

The placebo effect is a powerful thing. If you truly believe you are improving performance then you will almost certainly perceive it.

 

[my2cents]

Statements like that

Statements like what?

Also, you have made conflicting statements in the same thread:

If you just have enough RAM you can disable the pagefile and performance will be much better.

Disable it and you will pay the price in performance.

And finally, the page file has nothing to do with RAM optimization.