Surface damage mounts at Microsoft as red ink reaches $1.7

Microsoft continued to lose money on its Surface tablets throughout its just-concluded 2014 fiscal year, adding hundreds of millions of dollars in red ink and boosting total losses to $1.7 billion since the device's 2012 launch.

According to the 8-K statement filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on July 22, the Surface posted revenue of $409 million for the quarter that ended June 30. But unlike the two quarters prior, Microsoft did not reveal the cost of revenue associated with the Surface for the period.

Source

A Guy

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Hi there
I don't mock large screen sizes for a phone - I use the S5 myself --what I do mock are those stupid "Phablets" - that's an excessively large screen size to be making a phone call with !!!. Try using one of those at Oxford Circus underground station on the London Underground in the middle of the evening Rush Hour !!!!.

Well, it’s gotten to be where it’s commonly considered a phablet with a screen size of 4 to 4-1/2 inches on up if it has cellular call capabilities, so your S5 is considered one. I have no problems holding my 6-inch Lumia 1520 at 3-1/2 inches wide. A 7-inch would be pushing it at about 4-inches wide. That’s about max for the average man's hand span, but probably too big for the average woman’s. Calling on an 8-inch screen would definitely start to look odd, unless the person is calling emergency services to save your life.

I also really don't like the dead square corners. - I do think though Ms will attract the Blackberry crowd to the Windows phone though - I'm not sure if anybody has attempted to "Custom Rom" an Android phone with a Windows system on it -- would be interesting !!!! - not sure if due to different processor whether it's even possible -- but perhaps some sort of built in VM running on the Android system !!!.

OK. You don’t like square corners, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Moot subject really. I don’t think it was the round corners on the iPhone that made it a big seller so much as it was the name Apple on it following the success of the iPod in the traditional quality of a Mac. Bottom line is that where all the OEMs, including MS, are at with phones I’m preferring function over form. I think MS is betting the farm that as time goes on people will start to understand the similar experience with devices across the board all working in conjunction with one another via MS services, especially within business.

Ms BTW could offer corporates things like LYNC on a Windows phone -- would be attractive for these people.

Well, they do offer it. One needs a MS/Lync account to use all the features.





Try and keep up with the times.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
I don't mock large screen sizes for a phone - I use the S5 myself --what I do mock are those stupid "Phablets" - that's an excessively large screen size to be making a phone call with !!!. Try using one of those at Oxford Circus underground station on the London Underground in the middle of the evening Rush Hour !!!!.

Well, it’s gotten to be where it’s commonly considered a phablet with a screen size of 4 to 4-1/2 inches on up if it has cellular call capabilities, so your S5 is considered one. I have no problems holding my 6-inch Lumia 1520 at 3-1/2 inches wide. A 7-inch would be pushing it at about 4-inches wide. That’s about max for the average man's hand span, but probably too big for the average woman’s. Calling on an 8-inch screen would definitely start to look odd, unless the person is calling emergency services to save your life.

I also really don't like the dead square corners. - I do think though Ms will attract the Blackberry crowd to the Windows phone though - I'm not sure if anybody has attempted to "Custom Rom" an Android phone with a Windows system on it -- would be interesting !!!! - not sure if due to different processor whether it's even possible -- but perhaps some sort of built in VM running on the Android system !!!.

OK. You don’t like square corners, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Moot subject really. I don’t think it was the round corners on the iPhone that made it a big seller so much as it was the name Apple on it following the success of the iPod in the traditional quality of a Mac. Bottom line is that where all the OEMs, including MS, are at with phones I’m preferring function over form. I think MS is betting the farm that as time goes on people will start to understand the similar experience with devices across the board all working in conjunction with one another via MS services, especially within business.

Ms BTW could offer corporates things like LYNC on a Windows phone -- would be attractive for these people.

Well, they do offer it. One needs a MS/Lync account to use all the features.
Try and keep up with the times.

Hi there

actually trying to FIND an app for Windows phone really needs to be sorted out

I can't believe the lack of functionality of this search app compared with the Android one.

Now on the whole I LIKE the Windows phone OS - but say I'm looking for one of the best IMO Weather apps around - the BBC weather app (also very accurate) It's almost impossible to find it for Windows -- on Google and for iPhone -- no problem at all.

This search engine needs to be completely updated. You shouldn't have to have a Windows phone already to see what's available for it --otherwise how can you do sensible comparisons.

(I think it's only available for Android and iPhone - but at least you can search and get descriptions without even OWNING one of these phones).

Cheers
jimbo

View attachment 48669

 

[HippsieGypsie]

What the hell are we gonna do, if win9 comes along, and everybody loves it...???

Hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

 

[pparks1]

What the hell are we gonna do, if win9 comes along, and everybody loves it...???

It would be just like the move from Vista to Windows 7.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

We’re all over the place now in this thread. Getting back to the subject matter for a bit. Why is any company thwarting forward in the phone/pad/cellular/mobile/WiFi-related/Cloud/App/and the likes industries? There is and will be huge revenues to be made. We have just reached the tip of the iceberg with “Internet of things”. $Billions$ in red ink happened and continues to happen in any company due to mistakes from time to time. No one company is immune to it. MS NEEDS to push ahead to get and keep in the game. Besides, a $billion or two to companies this size is like pocket change to most of us.

Here are 50 items smartphones have or are replacing: 50 Things Your Smartphone Replaced [ Or Will Replace In The Future ]

actually trying to FIND an app for Windows phone really needs to be sorted out

I can't believe the lack of functionality of this search app compared with the Android one.

Admittedly MS App Store has a way to go, but they have come a long way since introduction.

Now on the whole I LIKE the Windows phone OS - but say I'm looking for one of the best IMO Weather apps around - the BBC weather app (also very accurate) It's almost impossible to find it for Windows -- on Google and for iPhone -- no problem at all.

It depends on what search engine and which country/region one is searching in. Bing is integrated in MS/Windows world everywhere now. Their Stores (Windows App Store, Windows Phone App Store, and Microsoft Store online), 8.x integrated search, Cortana, Bing Desktop, and all of their online sites such as TechNet, MSDN, Help, Safety, Corporate, and the likes. Of course you're going to get different results if using Google or any other search engine.

Even performing searches using Bing on different devices got me different results > Why? > Because the results might not pertain to that particular device within a region, country, and even different cellular carriers. The problem here in the U.S. is that we have locked and/or branded devices in which a carrier might not allow an app for they want people to use theirs, therefore an app may not be offered. In other words there are variables.

Let's turn this around > How many WP apps cross-written will we find in Google Play or Apple Stores? In Google Play I found Lync app, OneNote, OneDrive, and Office Mobile (in which you have to have Office installed somewhere and lynched) all published by MS. There may be more, but that’s all I looked for. No result for BBC Weather in Play Store either. Why? Probably not allowed in the U.S.



Not familiar with Apple products or services, but what the heck is this? > Apple - Creativity and Productivity Apps One store for iOS and one for Mac? Not really familiar with Apple world, but do not the apps run across different devices? Seeing that and having had an Android device I'd say that Google is ahead of the game, but with time MS will come around. Personally I'm waiting for Windows apps for my bank and one for a certain jukebox company where I can pay, play songs, and add favorites to my account so not to get my lazy rear off the bar stool to do so.

This search engine needs to be completely updated. You shouldn't have to have a Windows phone already to see what's available for it --otherwise how can you do sensible comparisons.

You don’t need a WP to find an app. Did you use the search on within the WP App Store page as you show above? Or is that a Google result page?

(I think it's only available for Android and iPhone - but at least you can search and get descriptions without even OWNING one of these phones).

I think you’re referring to the Lync app. There are Lync apps for 8.x, WP8, Android, and iPhone. The screenshot of my phone I posted earlier, which was from within the WP App Store, has the install button. I didn't want to desecrate my system by opening a Google page again so here's results from within 8.1 search:





BTW, once one purchases a Windows app, one can install it on all their devices without paying for each individual copy for each device. Last I heard that’s not true with the others.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Not sure why BBC Weather app doesn't appear in USA -- there's no copyright --Free to use worldwide

Here's a link from Iceland -- the weather app is in English though.

Google Translate

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Like I stated, there are variables. I don’t remember exactly how other than with persistence, but I did end up finding the BBC Weather app in the Store on my phone, however, there’s a warning on the page.



After tapping the warning this pops up. It's a possibility that it's not compatible with my 8.1 DPD, which is a developers preview OS update, but all other apps seem fine. Probably something else.



I did easily find this that is installable.





It’s also in the 8.x Store on my tower, but no BBC Weather app to be found.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Unfortunately this app isn't available (easily) on Windows phone

That's the problem with Windows phone -- the OS is BRILLIANT but the apps need a bit of sorting out.

No copyright on the app BTW it's just not not available (easily or by 1-click install) for Windows phone. This could be the Achilles heel of the Windows phone environment -- MS or other developers need to sort some of these apps out so they run on Windows phones too..

For example a MEGA useful app in the UK although lacking in Windows but brilliant in Android or iOS(iPhone) is the UK national Rail app. (Rail travel might not be important in the USA but when I'm in the UK I absolutely find this app almost INDESPENSIBLE. !!!).

National Rail Enquiries - National Rail Enquiries for Android & iPhone

Cheers

jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

While I like the Windows Phone system I really don't like those old square "Brick" over coloured and garish looking Lumia's --I think these would appeal more to 10 - 12 year old Schoolgirls.

Ms needs to hire some decent probably slightly "Gay-ish" Italian designers who'd come up with really sleek Models --I'd buy a nice thin Metal thin one in a flash (but please no SQUARE corners -- they aren't very comfortable in a pocket).

I'm sure this would distinguish it from (IMO) the excellent Samsung S4/S5's and would definitely appeal to a decent (not Mass) market -- Apple have done the same for ages with their high end computers - forget about "The Masses" and concentrate on a decent but STUNNING looking product.

In a Mature Market that's the only game in town --you have to distinguish yourself from all the other "Also rans".

Why do I like my "old square "Brick" over coloured and garish looking Lumia"?? (I bought the black) Because it sets it/me apart from the round-cornered > overpriced > worthless-in-Windows-world > pieces of fad costume jewelry called an iPhone. The I-wanna-be-an-iPhone-(we-got sued)-look-alike Samsung Galaxies aren’t any better. Absolutely worthless in Windows world.

Yes, I’d prefer a brushed metal case, but do you own a phone with a metal case? You like the WP system?? Then you’d own one no matter what it looked like or what case it’s in. Function before form.

You always seem to mock the larger screen sizes also. Looks like the 4.5 inch and up sales are rising. Here’s some interesting research results:

https://medium.com/@somospostpc/a-c...creen-size-statistics-and-trends-e61d77001ebe

Questions About a 5.5-inch iPhone - TIME

? Phablets: smartphone shipments 5 inches plus screen size 2012-2016 | Forecast

I enjoy my Lumia 1520 very much. Great device and use it a lot. Many people are inquisitive of its size and when I light it up to the Start Screen they’re even more inquisitive.

"(but please no SQUARE corners -- they aren't very comfortable in a pocket)"??! Geez! How tight do you wear your pants? I have mine in a leather wallet case and get it in and out of my front pocket with ease. Hardly know it’s there. Sometimes I have to pat my pocket to make sure it is there.

And how many times have I read "The UI is great for a tablet or phone, but certainly not for my all-powerful tower PC!" Yet a lot of you don't own a Windows phone or tablet.

Hi there
I don't mock large screen sizes for a phone - I use the S5 myself --what I do mock are those stupid "Phablets" - that's an excessively large screen size to be making a phone call with !!!. Try using one of those at Oxford Circus underground station on the London Underground in the middle of the evening Rush Hour !!!!.

I also really don't like the dead square corners. - I do think though Ms will attract the Blackberry crowd to the Windows phone though - I'm not sure if anybody has attempted to "Custom Rom" an Android phone with a Windows system on it -- would be interesting !!!! - not sure if due to different processor whether it's even possible -- but perhaps some sort of built in VM running on the Android system !!!.

Ms BTW could offer corporates things like LYNC on a Windows phone -- would be attractive for these people.

Cheers

Jimbo

I do believe there is an old HTC handheld that is able to run Windows RT, I THINK Windows Phone 8, and a bunch of android ROMs.

 

[Coke Robot]

Hi there

Unfortunately this app isn't available (easily) on Windows phone

That's the problem with Windows phone -- the OS is BRILLIANT but the apps need a bit of sorting out.

No copyright on the app BTW it's just not not available (easily or by 1-click install) for Windows phone. This could be the Achilles heel of the Windows phone environment -- MS or other developers need to sort some of these apps out so they run on Windows phones too..

For example a MEGA useful app in the UK although lacking in Windows but brilliant in Android or iOS(iPhone) is the UK national Rail app. (Rail travel might not be important in the USA but when I'm in the UK I absolutely find this app almost INDESPENSIBLE. !!!).

National Rail Enquiries - National Rail Enquiries for Android & iPhone

Cheers

jimbo

That'll be up to developers to make their apps Universal. But Universal apps just got recently started, so it'll take some time.

Also, I'm at the point where I think I might start a group of indie developers and port over every major needed and used and requested app to Windows Phone. Some of the official apps are garbage compared to the indie alternative, some aren't even there to begin with. It's what is holding Windows Phone down, the phrase, "I really love the phone, BUT*" with the asterisk meaning there is a lack of this app from ios or android that isn't even there on the platform or has a poor quality experience.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Hi there

Unfortunately this app isn't available (easily) on Windows phone

That's the problem with Windows phone -- the OS is BRILLIANT but the apps need a bit of sorting out.

No copyright on the app BTW it's just not not available (easily or by 1-click install) for Windows phone. This could be the Achilles heel of the Windows phone environment -- MS or other developers need to sort some of these apps out so they run on Windows phones too..

For example a MEGA useful app in the UK although lacking in Windows but brilliant in Android or iOS(iPhone) is the UK national Rail app. (Rail travel might not be important in the USA but when I'm in the UK I absolutely find this app almost INDESPENSIBLE. !!!).

National Rail Enquiries - National Rail Enquiries for Android & iPhone

Cheers

jimbo

Finally getting back to this.

Jim, There is no “Achilles heel” so far as apps. There are tons of Store apps and more added daily. Admittedly there aren’t as many as Play Store or Apple Store, but there are a lot.

It's not that there's not a BBC Weather app for WP. It's that it's not allowed to be installed on my AT&T branded Lumia here in the U.S. for whatever reason unknown to me. It is not found in 8.x Store (here in the U.S.) neither, so therefore not allowed to install, again, for whatever reason. However, there are loads of other BBC apps available. Besides, I can add any location in the world to my Bing weather app or other weather apps so far as that goes.

It seems that I did find the BBC Weather app shown above in my 1[SUP]st[/SUP] pic of post #27 via Bing search on my phone which opened the page results in IE in which one link led me to the Great Britain Windows app Store, which is what we see. Within that and scrolling left, the BBC Weather app publisher is a one Chesusoft. It seems they have no official website. I performed a Bing and Google search to no avail. Also on that page is a link to help. It seems they use a one “Uservoice” service for that, but that’s anoter subject.

Where did you get the information on the copyright?

So far as your “almost INDESPENSIBLE” rail app > Put this in your icon and smoke it.

 

[Rickkins]

Yanno, I'm willing to bet that Metro/Tifkam is every bit as usable as are the other two, on tabs and/or phones, and that, in the end it comes down to personal preferences. I don;t doubt that for a minute. Only issue I ever had was foisting onto the desktop. Separating the two, may well encourage more people to try it out. Many folks, like myself, can be quite stubborn when it comes to things like not having a choice and whatnot. Who knows... if win9 placates 'us', many might be more tempted to give a tifkam tab/phone a chance...

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Yanno, I'm willing to bet that Metro/Tifkam is every bit as usable as are the other two, on tabs and/or phones, and that, in the end it comes down to personal preferences. I don;t doubt that for a minute.

No doubt when all else is boiled away it all depends on personal choice. No argument there whatsoever, however, not only usable as you stated, I claim that once the new system is learned it is more efficient in use and in speed, especially when using 8.1 on all devices. This is first and foremost: http://www.eightforums.com/general-support/16379-real-quality-boot-time-8-verses-7-a.html

This last update to 8.1 on my Lumia is an absolute winner. Here’s just one feature that saves time: http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/46812-windows-phone-8-8-1-search-button.html?filter Windows There are many others.

Sure, most members here are savvy enough to configure multiple brand devices and OSs for use with all kinds of services, but not the mass of commoners. e.g. I could have persisted with another Android phone, but why should I have when MS offers it all in one place > All in one garden. Personally I wanted to ease up my time with setting up devices with all the configuration one has to perform, although I know some like to do so and crow that they can. It sure simplified my life so to devote time to other things in life. Again, it boils down to personal preference.

Only issue I ever had was foisting onto the desktop. Separating the two, may well encourage more people to try it out. Many folks, like myself, can be quite stubborn when it comes to things like not having a choice and whatnot. Who knows... if win9 placates 'us', many might be more tempted to give a tifkam tab/phone a chance...

“Foisting” may be a proper word to use with the original release of 8, for it wasn’t configurable to boot to the desktop app/portal. That was a big blunder on MSs’ part, but not so with 8.1 since one can boot to desktop app/portal. As I’ve stated before > I predict that W9 will be the most configurable Windows OS to date > Don't like Start Screen? > Here's a Start Menu. Like this feature? > Then keep it or configure it to be off. They may be that they only offer desktop in certain editions such as Pro and/or Enterprise, but it will continue to take second to Modern/Metro. All in all, I think MS will pursue in their new direction of a platform of OSs to run across devices with similar experience.