My slightly-above average users first time Windows 8 experience

[PatrickGSR94]

Man I can't stand all those extra tool bars and crap that various things load. I NEVER, EVER install that stuff. I always have to remember to untick the stupid Ask toolbar on every single Java update. Annoying!

 

[Coke Robot]

License agreements. Best. Thing. Ever. I'm honestly quite surprised a developer hasn't put something in a license agreement that says "By clicking I agree, you agree to donate some non-essential bodily organs at will at any time."

But I've never really seen people not read dialog boxes, sure they do ignore the setup ones and I have to uninstall the 8 toolbars and crapware, as for dialog boxes that popup out of nowhere; I would imagine people read those as they may be very serious.

 

[jimbo45]

hi there
on the RTM ( at least our "Leaked" version) you do get a little tutorial on the navigation system - before the system boots for the final time after install -the tutorial is quite passable BTW.

I decided to test myself --absolutely keeping quite - no complaints - ranting etc etc to see how long it would take me to install the base system, MS office and two or 3 small applications only - and have the Metro sorted out in an order rather like Davehc's post.

I started with a clean empty VM so nothing pre-installed on the system.

No real complicated application -- just MS office which was the largest.

It still took me about 2 hours to get the system into fairly "User Proof mode". Install itself even on a VM was a breeze and quick -- around 15 mins plus another 6 for the office suite (Office 2010 x-64 Pro). Organising all the other stuff is what took the time.

There is eventually a certain logic if you do it properly -- but the average person getting the computer home from the shop and having to do all this might run into a problem or two.

I would expect Help Desks to get OVERWHELMED with queries. Incidentally some people won't find it too horrible -- but some will always hate it -seems the world is split roughly 50% 50% on this.

Ms has obviously taken a HUGE gamble with this --but I suppose the same sort of problems occurred when XP was introduced .

We'll just have to wait and see -- Nearly everybody because of mobile phone use understands the layout of these tiles and how to click or tap to start an application -- but whether they will be able to arrange them conveniently on their own - without quite a bit of I.T support so they can use the system with decent productivity is definitely IMO questionable.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HippsieGypsie]

There is eventually a certain logic if you do it properly -- but the average person getting the computer home from the shop and having to do all this might run into a problem or two.

I would expect Help Desks to get OVERWHELMED with queries. Incidentally some people won't find it too horrible -- but some will always hate it -seems the world is split roughly 50% 50% on this.

Ms has obviously taken a HUGE gamble with this --but I suppose the same sort of problems occurred when XP was introduced.

I'm starting to see that M$ may be taking a big gamble in this drastic change of an OS. After being a member here for six or so weeks and reading what you Pros have to say about 8, the way people will probably accept it, and the way users may or may not learn it easily, I'm beginning to see that.

The only experience I have with other users are my 6 children and a friend who works IT and of which I don't see much of lately. One son, the gear head, is not interested in a computers except his for his smart phone. The other 5 have smart phones and computers and all had classes in grade and high schools on computing. They may have a tougher time to learn 8, but I think they will fair well, as most of the younger generation.

For the most part, though, and what pparks1 and you have posted above, it may be the older ones that'll have a difficult time. They're a little more resistant to change.

We're drawing nigh to final release. We'll know more when everyone sends Santa their Christmas list how M$ will fair. We should pretty much know by years end, if not sooner.

 

[Colonel Travis]

For the most part, though, and what pparks1 and you have posted above, it may be the older ones that'll have a difficult time. They're a little more resistant to change.

It's not change in and of itself, HG. What if Brink forced everyone here to post in Latin? Learning Latin isn't hard if you study - lots of kids study Latin in school. The older folks might find it difficult but they'll get the hang of it. Non progredi est regredi! Do you eat a steak with a plastic spoon? Do you play baseball with a football? Can you inject raspberry syrup into someone who needs a blood transfusion?

You see why this "change" argument doesn't necessarily work? Yet people use it all the time against anti-8 people without giving anything thought to what the change is and why people don't like it.

I've learned 8 and will not use it. It's got nothing to do with change in general and everything to do with change, specifically. I just think it's a stupid way to organize things. Not the desktop part, the Metro part. Sorry, we can't use "Metro" any more - Windows 8 UI. But I don't hate all of Windows 8 just the Metro part. I know but it's Windows 8 UI.

MS has screwed up even talking about it. The faster Ballmer is shown the door, the sooner the company will improve - unless they bring in another moron who ruins 2 out of every 3 OSs he sends out the door.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
finally wrapping up after a long day of several installs etc etc.

Don't send Ballmer out of the door --that way he walks with a HUGE amount of money and almost an obscene telephone number size of money as his pension pot. - No make him work as the Doorman !!! for minimum wages -- what is it in the USA --around 8 USD an hour or so.


Cheers
jimbo

 

[pparks1]

For the most part, though, and what pparks1 and you have posted above, it may be the older ones that'll have a difficult time. They're a little more resistant to change.

I don't necessarily see it as "resistance to change" per se, but I think the way that Jimbo and I use a computer is quite different from a lot of the newer generation. Heck, I prefer systems admin tasks via the command line in linux and powershell under Windows for most things. Much easier to document and to script repetitive tasks.

When on Windows XP, I was fairly happy, but did want a change. I wasn't happy with Vista and I skipped it. I was blown away with Windows 7 and jumped right onboard on day 1. However, I haven't been on Windows 7 for all that long, and I don't seem to have many issues that really need to be fixed. Things work pretty ideal for me at the present time.

Perhaps if the price is "right" on a surface pro tablet running Windows 8, I will go out and buy one and really appreciate it.


And as far as changed in concerned, you would think that I would be 100% anti cloud based computer. But surprisingly there I am not. I'm not all in, and not comfortable or able to put everything in the cloud, but I do see some benefits that come from it. There are probably many who love Metro, Windows 8 and lots of other changes, that despise the "cloud". I know Jimbo calls it "Cloud Cuukoo land".

 

[HippsieGypsie]

You see why this "change" argument doesn't necessarily work? Yet people use it all the time against anti-8 people without giving anything thought to what the change is and why people don't like it.

I don't necessarily see it as "resistance to change" per se, but I think the way that Jimbo and I use a computer is quite different from a lot of the newer generation.

Sorry, gentlemen, I looked over my last post. I didn't mean to point at any of you Pros or any that don't really care for 8 that much specifically. I know you know your stuff. I meant older people/users that aren't that computer savvy. Perhaps office personnel or many that work with a computer for work. e.a. -> the non-IT that know how to use a computer, but don't know how to set one up. It could even be a novice user.

I'd say 3 out of my 5 children are about a 6 on a 10 scale. They could figure out how to personalize there machine, e.a. -> Learn to arrange the Metro screen. I know one of them definitely doesn't, but can enter data in office programs. Not sure about the sixteen-year-old, although she set up her Droid the way she likes. I consider myself a 7 possibly an 8 on the scale. I know the basics of hardware, but not all that great at software. I could build a rig from someone's design, load an OS, other programs, get it on a network, and personalize it. But when it comes to reading what some of you Pros write on software, most often I get lost.

 

[lehnerus2000]

For the most part, though, and what pparks1 and you have posted above, it may be the older ones that'll have a difficult time. They're a little more resistant to change.

It's not change in and of itself, HG. What if Brink forced everyone here to post in Latin? Learning Latin isn't hard if you study - lots of kids study Latin in school. The older folks might find it difficult but they'll get the hang of it. Non progredi est regredi! Do you eat a steak with a plastic spoon? Do you play baseball with a football? Can you inject raspberry syrup into someone who needs a blood transfusion?

You see why this "change" argument doesn't necessarily work? Yet people use it all the time against anti-8 people without giving anything thought to what the change is and why people don't like it.

It's the only argument they have.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

If one doesn't like 8 or if it doesn't fit one's needs, I think one should stick with 7 or prior. 7 for sure will be around for quite awhile. I think M$ knows this for Enterprise. I believe 8 and the Surface are targeting iPad. The pad will eventually be the most popular device on the planet for personal use, including replacing the smart phone via Bluetooth. Whether it will cater to Enterprise some day will remain to be seen.

 

[legacy7955]

I see MS is still intent on using the "talking point" claiming that those who don't like Metro are

....."against change".

No, most here, even the skilled programmers and power users, are usually very accepting of "change" when that change improves things by making something work better, more efficiently, and results in greater productivity, but the thing is that Windows 8
DOESN'T achieve any of those qualities.

 

[PatrickGSR94]

What interests me most is the price. I've been using Win7 x64 for nearly 2 years at my office, and I LOVE it! But my home machine is still WinXP, because that's what I bought when I first built the machine in 2006, and have never really had the money to upgrade (always other stuff). I don't want to go with Win7 x86. Whenever I upgrade I want to switch to 64-bit with at least 8 GB RAM, which of course means new processor, new mobo, new memory, and new operating system, at the very least. Haven't had money for that in quite awhile. But for $40 I would upgrade to Win8. Maybe. Jury is still out on that.

 

[opiop65]

The biggest thing I don't like about Windows 8 is all the fragmentation. If you are doing something within the metro interface and you have to open a link, it opens the metro version of Internet explorer. However, if you are on the desktop, it will just open to your default browser. I wish it would just use one or the other, not both. That's just an example of fragmentation between the two UI's. That being said, I love windows 8. I have been using it as my primary OS for about 1.5 months now. I use the new start menu to pin my desktop programs to it, so I can use metro as a launcher of sorts. But one more complaint; I hate the randomness of metro. The apps list is a mess of programs here and there, tiles look sloppy when they are grouped together because some fall into another row and then you have tiles awkwardly sitting there. It's messy, and I think it needs some cleaning up, but I do like Windows 8. However, its not for large companies at all. There's just no reason to upgrade.

*Phew* [end rant]

 

[jimbo45]

If one doesn't like 8 or if it doesn't fit one's needs, I think one should stick with 7 or prior. 7 for sure will be around for quite awhile. I think M$ knows this for Enterprise. I believe 8 and the Surface are targeting iPad. The pad will eventually be the most popular device on the planet for personal use, including replacing the smart phone via Bluetooth. Whether it will cater to Enterprise some day will remain to be seen.

Hi there
I don't think so somehow.

The latest generation of smartphones make an ipad look like an ant swimming in a current of syrup or treacle..

A smartphone does all the stuff I could conceivably want to do on a tablet and a really thin "Utrabook" does the rest.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

I've yet to actually set Windows 8 in front of someone and let them have at it, but then again, I don't take small children and put them in the driver's seat of a car and tell them to have at it...

Neither did I. I took somebody who has been using a computer/driving a car for many, many years. They found Windows 8 unintutive and hard to figure out how to do things. It's actually my kids, with less experience, who find it easier.

Speaking of such, yesterday, I introduced the Windows 8 to a friend of mine and her family. It was by far the most interesting introduction I've done as the family ranged in different ages and abilities. My friend's mom was literally taken aback and borderline overwhelmed, but a good overwhelmed.

I seriously don't understand who these people are that you keep showing Windows to. Do you just walk around with a laptop going from house to house to house proclaiming the virtues of Windows 8. Everybody you show Windows 8 too, is blown away according to you. Every computer user that I have shown it to, has said, 'Meh, maybe I could get used to it"...but blown away was not a phrase I would have used to describe any of their reactions.

Actually, I did for a while ran a Windows 8 To Go drive at my workplace and showed people it. I've been installing Windows 8 on a few laptops for some people to test and to show, and overall it's been resoundingly a hit. It's overwhelming for a few, but a WHOA for everyone else. The last time I did that over at my friend's house was pretty awesome as they were very taken aback by it.

 

[pparks1]

Actually, I did for a while ran a Windows 8 To Go drive at my workplace and showed people it. I've been installing Windows 8 on a few laptops for some people to test and to show, and overall it's been resoundingly a hit. It's overwhelming for a few, but a WHOA for everyone else. The last time I did that over at my friend's house was pretty awesome as they were very taken aback by it.

And the overwhelming response that I have gotten when showing off Windows 8 has been resoundingly bad. More or less the "what they hell were they thinking", "they expect us to actually use this", " I'm going to just stick to what I have, thank you very much".

I almost wonder what type of people we each work with and are friends with. I work in a software development company, most of the individuals are heavy computer users, technically sufficient, etc. My friends are IT people and are technically sophisticated. Many of them are gamers. The people who have been the most shocked my Windows 8 are the people in the customer support area who are going to have to support our products in this environment. They have big concerns.

 

[cluberti]

No, most here, even the skilled programmers and power users, are usually very accepting of "change" when that change improves things by making something work better, more efficiently, and results in greater productivity, but the thing is that Windows 8 DOESN'T achieve any of those qualities.

While that may be true about people here, I would argue it may also not be. On the whole, I hate to say it, the IT forum crowd really isn't the kind of crowd that embraces "different" in an established space - we're the first to bash anything different replacing something comfortable (and good) until someone shows us otherwise (and they're idiots, or stupid, or don't get it, etc - regardless of how good or bad the argument they pose may be), and we will continue to rail against it until we're either forced to change, or we move on to something totally different (aka people who will go to the Mac platform instead of Win8, even though THAT is arguably a bigger change, and won't notice the irony at all).

And, as a developer, I'd say we are the LEAST likely to conform to change, and of this crowd, moreso for Windows app developers than most others. There are even a decent percentage, some whom I know and work with personally, that still design software today like it's the late 90s, with no mind for security or performance, using old, deprecated APIs and functionality, etc. The bulk of software on Windows today that runs with LUA in mind only does so because of the need for it to work on Windows 7 - had Vista and UAC not happened, we'd still have the vast majority of Windows software out there that runs expecting admin rights, has lax security, etc.

Just my 2 cents from my own experience over the last 20+ years.

 

[Coke Robot]

Actually, I did for a while ran a Windows 8 To Go drive at my workplace and showed people it. I've been installing Windows 8 on a few laptops for some people to test and to show, and overall it's been resoundingly a hit. It's overwhelming for a few, but a WHOA for everyone else. The last time I did that over at my friend's house was pretty awesome as they were very taken aback by it.

And the overwhelming response that I have gotten when showing off Windows 8 has been resoundingly bad. More or less the "what they hell were they thinking", "they expect us to actually use this", " I'm going to just stick to what I have, thank you very much".

I almost wonder what type of people we each work with and are friends with. I work in a software development company, most of the individuals are heavy computer users, technically sufficient, etc. My friends are IT people and are technically sophisticated. Many of them are gamers. The people who have been the most shocked my Windows 8 are the people in the customer support area who are going to have to support our products in this environment. They have big concerns.

I've been showing Windows 8 to people one would consider the average tech consumer crowd that many of us argue about on this forum. Ages range from 7 to 46 years of age. Some are teachers, a masseuse, a few hardcore PC gamers, digital photographers/editors, college students, high school students, several date entry workers at the local hospital, a couple of farmers, and a couple of IT support people. Overall, the reception has been quite warm. A gamer friend of mine initially didn't care for it, but ever since I let him use my Windows 8 To Go drive for 20 minutes just using IE 10 metro, Start Screen and Desktop, he actually likes it. He's going in C++ programming this fall I believe. Also, his start menu in Windows 7 on his gaming laptop, yes, laptop is a hideous mess that I shan't not even want to touch. A few so far need to have their hands held as Windows 8 is a lot of change, but now are using it without a big issue. The latest is closing out of the apps, which is obvious.

I've even demonstrated Office 2013 and SkyDrive to a few people I know who are hardcore Office users, and wow, they love it! I've also shown several people the new Microsoft Surface tablet, all are very interested in buying one.

I think the disparity among the different user crowds is that I find, the consumer crowd is much more into Windows 8 than the programmer or the self-built desktop user that must have their start menu and gadgets and 80 open windows. It's not that the consumer crowd doesn't use their PCs solely for facebook and Netflix, they do but they do more things than that.

 

[pparks1]

Overall, the reception has been quite warm.

Is it quite warm, or are they blown away? You seem to be saying 2 different things.

A gamer friend of mine initially didn't care for it, but ever since I let him use my Windows 8 To Go drive for 20 minutes just using IE 10 metro, Start Screen and Desktop, he actually likes it.

Had he yet stumbled upon the fact that he cannot have "favorites" in the traditional sense of the word and instead has to litter the start screen with lovely tiles for each website he might bookmark? Did he try to visit a flash site only to discover that the site itself is not on the Microsoft approved list? I'm seriously unable to find anybody actually impressed with the IE version of Metro. It's horrible.

Also, his start menu in Windows 7 on his gaming laptop, yes, laptop is a hideous mess that I shan't not even want to touch.

So, explain how it's going to get better on Windows 8 when everything is arranged at the same level. You honestly believe that if it's a mess with a hierarchical folder system like he has now that it's going to improve when everything is at the same level. You think he will take the time to click on each and every damn tile and unpin it. Seriously man, think about it.

A few so far need to have their hands held as Windows 8 is a lot of change, but now are using it without a big issue. The latest is closing out of the apps, which is obvious.

You think "closing" a Metro version of an app is obvious? I sure don't.

I've even demonstrated Office 2013 and SkyDrive to a few people I know who are hardcore Office users, and wow, they love it!

They love a limited web based version of application, and dig using the cloud to store their files? Hmmm....they probably aren't members of this forum.

I've also shown several people the new Microsoft Surface tablet, all are very interested in buying one.

You've actually got a Surface tablet to demonstrate to them? If you haven't already decided on a career in sales, I might suggest one. You seem to be able to sell "hopes and dreams" my friend.

I think the disparity among the different user crowds is that I find, the consumer crowd is much more into Windows 8 than the programmer or the self-built desktop user that must have their start menu and gadgets and 80 open windows. It's not that the consumer crowd doesn't use their PCs solely for facebook and Netflix, they do but they do more things than that.

Yeah, they actually use their computers rather than wetting their pants when they see a new color scheme and go all ga-ga because something looks flashy, scrolls smoothly, and is new and shiny. These are the same people who believe what most marketing tells them. They probably also aspire to someday be able to afford a Bose home theater system as they believe they are the cats pajamas.


I seriously love chatting with you here, as it seems like we are always discussing 2 totally different products with our reactions.

 

[Coke Robot]

Overall, the reception has been quite warm.

Is it quite warm, or are they blown away? You seem to be saying 2 different things.

A gamer friend of mine initially didn't care for it, but ever since I let him use my Windows 8 To Go drive for 20 minutes just using IE 10 metro, Start Screen and Desktop, he actually likes it.

Had he yet stumbled upon the fact that he cannot have "favorites" in the traditional sense of the word and instead has to litter the start screen with lovely tiles for each website he might bookmark? Did he try to visit a flash site only to discover that the site itself is not on the Microsoft approved list? I'm seriously unable to find anybody actually impressed with the IE version of Metro. It's horrible.

So, explain how it's going to get better on Windows 8 when everything is arranged at the same level. You honestly believe that if it's a mess with a hierarchical folder system like he has now that it's going to improve when everything is at the same level. You think he will take the time to click on each and every damn tile and unpin it. Seriously man, think about it.


You think "closing" a Metro version of an app is obvious? I sure don't.

They love a limited web based version of application, and dig using the cloud to store their files? Hmmm....they probably aren't members of this forum.

I've also shown several people the new Microsoft Surface tablet, all are very interested in buying one.

You've actually got a Surface tablet to demonstrate to them? If you haven't already decided on a career in sales, I might suggest one. You seem to be able to sell "hopes and dreams" my friend.

I think the disparity among the different user crowds is that I find, the consumer crowd is much more into Windows 8 than the programmer or the self-built desktop user that must have their start menu and gadgets and 80 open windows. It's not that the consumer crowd doesn't use their PCs solely for facebook and Netflix, they do but they do more things than that.

Yeah, they actually use their computers rather than wetting their pants when they see a new color scheme and go all ga-ga because something looks flashy, scrolls smoothly, and is new and shiny. These are the same people who believe what most marketing tells them. They probably also aspire to someday be able to afford a Bose home theater system as they believe they are the cats pajamas.


I seriously love chatting with you here, as it seems like we are always discussing 2 totally different products with our reactions.

I should say warm and blown away as I've seen both blown away and warm receptions.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have IE tiles on the Start Screen, where ever you feel like having them easily accessible is where ever you want it to be. No one says that you can't have IE tiles on the Start Screen and no one is saying that it's a bad thing. You seem to make it out as a bad thing.

Now, as for the folders in the start menu, I see it this way. To clean up that start menu, you can either click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, scroll, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, scroll, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click,click, click, right click, click,click, click, right click, click, click, scroll, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, right click, click, click, click, scroll, right click, click, and repeat versus; click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, right click and click. Every time you install a new game or program, you're going to end up using the program tile versus the help files or the random programs you won't really use. And when you install said programs and see a group of tiles, you can easily arrange what you need and unpin what you don't. The MAIN difference here is that YOU SEE THE PROGRAM'S START ENTRIES. Why do you suppose pretty much every start menu on a large majority of user's PCs are nothing but folders and folders with the default All Programs entries? Not many look at it or bother to clean it up as they don't see it or have a notion to do so. If you see it, you will do something about it. That's why I think it's better. It's makes the user more aware of what's on their PC and do something about it. If they don't like to have all those tiles, they can remove them.

And no, it's not obvious to close the apps. But when it becomes obvious after told or shown or stumbled upon, that problem is solved. In fact, I've been told that's one of the coolest things Windows 8 does and I've seen peoples' reactions to me showing how to close an app, they seemed delighted for some odd reason. And no, I bet after a while people will get a hang of it. When Windows 7 came out, you didn't see a lot of people pinning items to the taskbar. Links were on the Desktop or the start menu. After a bit of time, taskbars had things pinned on them. People figure things out, and most aren't too stupid to explore something new, at least that's the theory.

I don't know, but Office 2013 isn't a web based application. It's a 963 MB program suite that when connected to the internet, it wants to save files by default to the user's SkyDrive WHEN the user is signed into Office. If not connected or not signed in or chosen to opt out of that default behavior by tick marking ONE entry in Office Options, it doesn't. And yes, the consumer crowd seems more likely to use the Cloud as they don't see a bad side to it as they don't tend to be paranoid about everything. Some find it as a better alternative to physical media as I've been told a horror story involving tax forms and three failed forms of backup media every tax season for three years straight until a cloud option was introduced. Even still, on a tangent side note, I don't get the huge deal about the cloud. Many will gather just to say, "Oh the cloud? Oh it's terrible. I don't get privacy and I don't own anything anymore." Until Windows is cloud based like google chrome OS, and hard drives are gone and SSDs are gone and wireless networking is more omnipresent than air, that's a long ways off. If some are uncertain or paranoid of the cloud and having some other company looking at what you have and snooping through personal things, stop using email, or better yet, stop using gmail as google actively scans email text so they can personalize adverts at you.

I don't have a Surface tablet unfortunately, but I do have a picture of it. And based off the picture, people are liking it, as some here are. And actually, I should say, back in my senior year of high school, I won third place at state in salesmanship speaking. Just sayin'....

I personally wet my pants over how a new UI looks and feels, are you suggesting something here? I don't know, to me it seems the average consumer crowd just goes with the flow. When someone enters a best buy and they see the ipad on it's over hyped display, and see some knockoff android tablets, and then they go over to the PC section and see the Start Screen, what's going to attract their attention the most considering this hypothetical person isn't an isheep, a fandroid, or a Microsoft fanboy? I say the Start Screen and the new tablet PCs and the new Windows 8 PCs in general. Why? It's something radically new and different. They probably won't be tripping out over the lack of gadgets most likely, or freaking out about no start menu, or peeing themselves about how the Cloud and Windows 8 destroyed the Desktop. They will, after some simple introduction, be more intrigued by the fact you can have apps on a PC like on your phone, that it's new, it looks and acts different, but still has the ability to act like your PC you have at home, but different and better.

This popped into my mind, at the local best buy near me, there was a touchscreen AIO PC that I don't know who, but probably the idiot geek squad as they used a touchscreen with a bloody bezel and not the Lenevo that was PERFECT for Windows 8, but I played with it and installed a bunch of apps on it and when I came back from the car audio section, a few people were looking at it and someone was playing with the Xbox Live app.

But having said all this, I do also enjoy the conversing about Windows 8 as it does seem like a totally different product is being talked about.