Microsoft warns Windows XP users risk 'zero day forever'

Microsoft's latest tack in trying to wean users off Windows XP is to warn them of a possible 'zero day forever' scenario in the post-April 2014 support cut-off world.

Microsoft has been beating increasingly louder the XP end-of-support drum. Earlier this summer, Microsoft gave its reseller partners marching orders to step up their warnings about the end of support for Windows XP on April 8, 2014. This week, Microsoft echoed that warning, adding a new twist, via an August 15 post on the Microsoft Security Blog.

As Microsoft execs have been cautioning for more than a year, after April 8, 2014, users running Windows XP Service Pack (SP) 3 -- the last service pack delivered for the 11-year-old operating system -- won't get any more updates. That includes both security and "non-security" hot fixes, free or paid support options and online technical content updates.

Read more at: Microsoft warns Windows XP users risk 'zero day forever' | ZDNet

 

[DJRoff]

I know what you mean, on both scores. Have to tell you though, that I would have NO trouble ditching Win 98! I refurbed an old HP, a few years ago, and used its Re-Install disk... which turned out to be Win ME, about the same thing. I gave that one away faster than you can say BSOD!

Yeah totally understand that one. The annoying thing about W8 is how difficult M$ have made everything for desktop users. Such as a simple thing like booting into safe mode with F8 where you need to do a BCDEdit or use a third party app. It seems to be an endless litany of work-arounds and third party software to get it back to the efficiency of operation that existed in Win7.

In general terms PCs have only ever really been a hobby for me, aside from the actual work jobs I do on them like spread sheets for tax work, banking, music and movie editing, etc. I have no formal education in PCs aside from a few odd units from yesteryear when doing Electronic Engineering; and they're all prehistoric now. By no means do I have an in-depth, comprehensive range of knowledge.

I really only did things that needed to be done to make the PC work the way I wanted it to work; unless something got my attention and became a challenge or a curiosity. What I do know I know well, but there are a lot of gaps. And I could never get into it again like formal tertiary study, which would take all the fun out of it. All the repair work I've done for others was really to satisfy my own learning and interests. So they benefitted and so did I.

With you there, I've never done this stuff professionally, just tinkered around with it so much that I became the de facto family "expert", and have wound up building one or two for family members. Stick me in an IT position somewhere, and I'd fall apart.. even though my

We've wandered pretty far afield, here, from the original topic. Bottom line is, I think we all have a lot of respect for XP, in terms of how far it has brought us, and the changes it has weathered. I, for one, plan to keep it around as long as I can, albeit in internet-retirement after April.

 

[Mustang]

With you there, I've never done this stuff professionally, just tinkered around with it so much that I became the de facto family "expert", and have wound up building one or two for family members. Stick me in an IT position somewhere, and I'd fall apart.. even though my

We've wandered pretty far afield, here, from the original topic. Bottom line is, I think we all have a lot of respect for XP, in terms of how far it has brought us, and the changes it has weathered. I, for one, plan to keep it around as long as I can, albeit in internet-retirement after April.

Yes you're right we, or should I say I, have wandered right off the radar. Even so, nice chatting. And likewise when I look back I still scratch my head and wonder how I ever got through tertiary study. It really does take the fun out of it because you only ever see unrelated bits of the system and not how they all fit together in the bigger picture. I'm much more a hands on person than a theorist.

And yes, also agree XP was and still is for many a great system. The last machine I had it in was reasonably high end and XP absolutely flew being such a lightweight OS compared to Vista and Win7. And like others have said in this thread, it's still used by many businesses.

Cheers M

 

[lehnerus2000]

AHCI Mysteries

My friend and I couldn't install the AHCI drivers via a floppy disc.
I was able to successfully create a slipstreamed install disc with the AHCI drivers.

I never had any luck slipstreaming with nLite, could never get a working disk. But the floppy method is simple, you just get those drivers from your motherboard mfr (the standard AMD ones are called ahcix86.inf, ahcix86.sys, etc.) and put them on a floppy in root position. Then, during XP install, where it says, "Press F6 if you need to install 3rd-party SCSI or RAID drivers", press and hold F6. It will come to a stopping point and ask you to insert the disk you just made. It will see the drivers and tell you what it's installing. That's all there is to it.

I had the opposite experience.
The drivers would not install from the floppy.

I tried multiple floppies (just in case they had become defective).

I wasn't able to include any updates, other than SP1, SP2 and SP3, if I wanted to end up with a working XP install disc using nLite.
Trying to include any other updates invariably broke the disc.

 

[DJRoff]

Ok, that's good to know, if I ever decide to try nLite again, I'll just avoid anything but the Service Packs. But I thought that was the idea behind slipstreaming, that you could include ANY special files you wanted as part of the disk.

As far as the floppy routine, some mobo mfrs have their own special drivers (I once worked on an ASRock board like that, their driver was called jraidx86.inf or something like that), and most of them will have some type of "MAKE_DISK" thing you can download, to assemble a usable floppy. In most cases, this only amounts to 3 or 4 files in root position. In a few instances, though, your motherboard might be looking for something specific, like an autorun or exec.bat folder or something, which only their "MAKE_DISK" widget will create. It will usually be in their list of drivers under the heading of SATA or RAID, if they have one.

 

[pcRat]

I can't believe that if these folks are informed of the dangers of identity theft, bank account hacking, and other serious breaches of critical private information with an unpatched XP they won't perk up and listen up?

Some just don't care about security. After creating 'Standard User Accounts' for them, they convert them to 'Administrator Accounts'. They will turn firewall & antivirus off because it blocks sites & downloads they want.
Then they want you to clean their computer again.

Best advice I give anyone about replacing XP is that 7 is the last similiar OS but 8 isn't bad if you like learning a new system.
When buying a new computer be sure it has DDR3. Instead of DDR or DDR2 so that you'll have the latest & fastest memory, which will make the pc faster.

 

[pcRat]

I know what you mean, on both scores. Have to tell you though, that I would have NO trouble ditching Win 98! I refurbed an old HP, a few years ago, and used its Re-Install disk... which turned out to be Win ME, about the same thing. I gave that one away faster than you can say BSOD!

Yeah totally understand that one. The annoying thing about W8 is how difficult M$ have made everything for desktop users. Such as a simple thing like booting into safe mode with F8 where you need to do a BCDEdit or use a third party app. It seems to be an endless litany of work-arounds and third party software to get it back to the efficiency of operation that existed in Win7.

In general terms PCs have only ever really been a hobby for me, aside from the actual work jobs I do on them like spread sheets for tax work, banking, music and movie editing, etc. I have no formal education in PCs aside from a few odd units from yesteryear when doing Electronic Engineering; and they're all prehistoric now. By no means do I have an in-depth, comprehensive range of knowledge.

I really only did things that needed to be done to make the PC work the way I wanted it to work; unless something got my attention and became a challenge or a curiosity. What I do know I know well, but there are a lot of gaps. And I could never get into it again like formal tertiary study, which would take all the fun out of it. All the repair work I've done for others was really to satisfy my own learning and interests. So they benefitted and so did I.

With you there, I've never done this stuff professionally, just tinkered around with it so much that I became the de facto family "expert", and have wound up building one or two for family members. Stick me in an IT position somewhere, and I'd fall apart.. even though my

We've wandered pretty far afield, here, from the original topic. Bottom line is, I think we all have a lot of respect for XP, in terms of how far it has brought us, and the changes it has weathered. I, for one, plan to keep it around as long as I can, albeit in internet-retirement after April.

I think XP made many 'Shadetree IT's'.
My first 6 mos was 98 SE, learned about security and clean install by googling which led to self help forums like this. Then XP. Which stayed around long enough for me to learn and become family IT.

 

[DJRoff]

Yeah totally understand that one. The annoying thing about W8 is how difficult M$ have made everything for desktop users. Such as a simple thing like booting into safe mode with F8 where you need to do a BCDEdit or use a third party app. It seems to be an endless litany of work-arounds and third party software to get it back to the efficiency of operation that existed in Win7.

In general terms PCs have only ever really been a hobby for me, aside from the actual work jobs I do on them like spread sheets for tax work, banking, music and movie editing, etc. I have no formal education in PCs aside from a few odd units from yesteryear when doing Electronic Engineering; and they're all prehistoric now. By no means do I have an in-depth, comprehensive range of knowledge.

I really only did things that needed to be done to make the PC work the way I wanted it to work; unless something got my attention and became a challenge or a curiosity. What I do know I know well, but there are a lot of gaps. And I could never get into it again like formal tertiary study, which would take all the fun out of it. All the repair work I've done for others was really to satisfy my own learning and interests. So they benefitted and so did I.

With you there, I've never done this stuff professionally, just tinkered around with it so much that I became the de facto family "expert", and have wound up building one or two for family members. Stick me in an IT position somewhere, and I'd fall apart.. even though my knowledge in some areas is way deeper than some IT folks.

We've wandered pretty far afield, here, from the original topic. Bottom line is, I think we all have a lot of respect for XP, in terms of how far it has brought us, and the changes it has weathered. I, for one, plan to keep it around as long as I can, albeit in internet-retirement after April.

I think XP made many 'Shadetree IT's'.
My first 6 mos was 98 SE, learned about security and clean install by googling which led to self help forums like this. Then XP. Which stayed around long enough for me to learn and become family IT.

"Family IT" is a good name for it. I have one relative who is always getting things messed up on her (still XP) machine, and wanting me to talk her out of trouble. Fortunately, I didn't build that one though, I'm just the occasional hero. I keep threatening that the next time she calls, I'm going to break into a thick foreign accent.

 

[Mustang]

"Family IT" is a good name for it.

You took the words out of my mouth DJ! Great name. Gives off good vibes.

I'm just the occasional hero. I keep threatening that the next time she calls, I'm going to break into a thick foreign accent.

Triple LOL! I get a bit paranoic when the phone rings and I recognize the person ringing on Caller ID as the resident XP nemesis! I'm slowly starting to grasp the meaning of being "on the lam"!

 

[DJRoff]

"Family IT" is a good name for it.

You took the words out of my mouth DJ! Great name. Gives off good vibes.

I'm just the occasional hero. I keep threatening that the next time she calls, I'm going to break into a thick foreign accent.

Triple LOL! I get a bit paranoic when the phone rings and I recognize the person ringing on Caller ID as the resident XP nemesis! I'm slowly starting to grasp the meaning of being "on the lam"!

Yeah, but you can only change your phone number so many times. They keep finding you.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Specific Order?

Ok, that's good to know, if I ever decide to try nLite again, I'll just avoid anything but the Service Packs. But I thought that was the idea behind slipstreaming, that you could include ANY special files you wanted as part of the disk.

I thought that too.
Maybe they have to be added to the ISO maker in a specific order.

The problem may only be with a few of the updates.
I have a library of 95 XP updates (up to July 2012).
I didn't try adding them one at a time until it broke the ISO (for obvious reasons).

As far as the floppy routine, some mobo mfrs have their own special drivers (I once worked on an ASRock board like that, their driver was called jraidx86.inf or something like that), and most of them will have some type of "MAKE_DISK" thing you can download, to assemble a usable floppy. In most cases, this only amounts to 3 or 4 files in root position. In a few instances, though, your motherboard might be looking for something specific, like an autorun or exec.bat folder or something, which only their "MAKE_DISK" widget will create. It will usually be in their list of drivers under the heading of SATA or RAID, if they have one.

Thanks for that info.

 

[DJRoff]

Ok, that's good to know, if I ever decide to try nLite again, I'll just avoid anything but the Service Packs. But I thought that was the idea behind slipstreaming, that you could include ANY special files you wanted as part of the disk.

I thought that too.
Maybe they have to be added to the ISO maker in a specific order.

The problem may only be with a few of the updates.
I have a library of 95 XP updates (up to July 2012).
I didn't try adding them one at a time until it broke the ISO (for obvious reasons).

As far as the floppy routine, some mobo mfrs have their own special drivers (I once worked on an ASRock board like that, their driver was called jraidx86.inf or something like that), and most of them will have some type of "MAKE_DISK" thing you can download, to assemble a usable floppy. In most cases, this only amounts to 3 or 4 files in root position. In a few instances, though, your motherboard might be looking for something specific, like an autorun or exec.bat folder or something, which only their "MAKE_DISK" widget will create. It will usually be in their list of drivers under the heading of SATA or RAID, if they have one.

Thanks for that info.

No problem!

With the nLite, I believe the only things I tried to add in were SP3 (my existing disk was current thru SP2) and the now-infamous AHCI drivers. I don't recall the order I did that in, or if I tried altering the order. But I burned thru 3 or 4 different CDs, without getting a single usable disk. I finally gave up, and tried the floppy routine, with smashing success. Just had to add in SP3 afterward, and wade thru 9 zillion updates, is all. Funny how our experiences were exactly opposite on these two methods! But that's one of the things I always liked about XP, there was always more than one way to get something done.

 

[fafhrd]

After "9 zillion updates", and 14 years of real-time exposure, how many possible exploits are left for XP, which will be a legacy, minority OS?

Who has the statistics on the exploits aimed at DOS/Windows 9x specifically since they became passé? I would guess that there were hardly any at all.

Is some black hatter group going to aim specifically to compromise the workings of XP, when there are three generations of Microsoft OSs based on the Vista blueprint on the majority of PCs in use?

I doubt it. There is neither a challenge nor any prestige for the hackers in such a project.

XP will remain as secure as it has been for years, as long as used prudently, online or off, and it will become more secure from threats over time, as it becomes a rarity. Nobody I know is scared of skinheads any more for exactly the same reason.

If the threats to personal liberty in the Windows 8 family as outlined in other current news threads here (suddenly deleted?) are true, XP is already a safer bet for the future.

 

[lehnerus2000]

No problem!

With the nLite, I believe the only things I tried to add in were SP3 (my existing disk was current thru SP2) and the now-infamous AHCI drivers. I don't recall the order I did that in, or if I tried altering the order. But I burned thru 3 or 4 different CDs, without getting a single usable disk. I finally gave up, and tried the floppy routine, with smashing success. Just had to add in SP3 afterward, and wade thru 9 zillion updates, is all. Funny how our experiences were exactly opposite on these two methods! But that's one of the things I always liked about XP, there was always more than one way to get something done.

I tried installing my ISOs in a VM to see if they were going to work, before I burned a disc.

I put it down to the "mysterious mysteries of computing" (like how FF crashes non-stop on some machines and yet it runs perfectly on others).

If the threats to personal liberty in the Windows 8 family as outlined in other current news threads here (suddenly deleted?) are true, ...

That is yet another mystery.

 

[DJRoff]

After "9 zillion updates", and 14 years of real-time exposure, how many possible exploits are left for XP, which will be a legacy, minority OS?

Who has the statistics on the exploits aimed at DOS/Windows 9x specifically since they became passé? I would guess that there were hardly any at all.

Is some black hatter group going to aim specifically to compromise the workings of XP, when there are three generations of Microsoft OSs based on the Vista blueprint on the majority of PCs in use?

I doubt it. There is neither a challenge nor any prestige for the hackers in such a project.

XP will remain as secure as it has been for years, as long as used prudently, online or off, and it will become more secure from threats over time, as it becomes a rarity. Nobody I know is scared of skinheads any more for exactly the same reason.

If the threats to personal liberty in the Windows 8 family as outlined in other current news threads here (suddenly deleted?) are true, XP is already a safer bet for the future.

You're probably right, there. Hackers and virus engineers don't like to go after low-hanging fruit, it's challenges they're after, bragging rights for having done something difficult. Either that, or the desire to cause as much mayhem as possible, which, to your point, would entail messing with W7 or W8, not Grandfather XP.

 

[DJRoff]

No problem!

With the nLite, I believe the only things I tried to add in were SP3 (my existing disk was current thru SP2) and the now-infamous AHCI drivers. I don't recall the order I did that in, or if I tried altering the order. But I burned thru 3 or 4 different CDs, without getting a single usable disk. I finally gave up, and tried the floppy routine, with smashing success. Just had to add in SP3 afterward, and wade thru 9 zillion updates, is all. Funny how our experiences were exactly opposite on these two methods! But that's one of the things I always liked about XP, there was always more than one way to get something done.

I tried installing my ISOs in a VM to see if they were going to work, before I burned a disc.

I put it down to the "mysterious mysteries of computing" (like how FF crashes non-stop on some machines and yet it runs perfectly on others).

Never got comfy with VM modes at all, for whatever reason. Your way was smarter, but I had such a glut of cheap CD-Rs and DVD-Rs hanging about, I just used the blunt-force method.

 

[Mustang]

I put it down to the "mysterious mysteries of computing" (like how FF crashes non-stop on some machines and yet it runs perfectly on others).

That is yet another mystery.

Funnily enough I've never had any problems with nLite and apart from SPs have added SATA drivers, various other minor items, and product key. Yet another mystery!

Talking of mysteries, when my son was training as a PC techo, he spent a year in a government teaching institution dedicated to trainees, with hands on experience; and the head guy there was an ex top techo from M$ Australia.

On one occasion my son asked the head honcho how to trouble shoot a particular problem he was working on, and the head guy replied: Simple! Reload Windows! Yet another mystery in the realm of PC teachers.

 

[lehnerus2000]

VMware Player

I tried installing my ISOs in a VM to see if they were going to work, before I burned a disc.

I put it down to the "mysterious mysteries of computing" (like how FF crashes non-stop on some machines and yet it runs perfectly on others).

Never got comfy with VM modes at all, for whatever reason. Your way was smarter, but I had such a glut of cheap CD-Rs and DVD-Rs hanging about, I just used the blunt-force method.

I use VMware Workstation (v7) on W7 and VMware Player (v5) on Linux Mint.

VMware Player is free.
https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_player/5_0

My method:

• Start VMware and choose the "Create a New Virtual Machine" option
• I create a blank/empty virtual HDD (choose the "I will install the operating system later" option)
• Once the blank/empty virtual HDD has been created, point the virtual CD/DVD drive at the OS ISO file
• Start the VM
• Install the OS as normal

If you save a copy of the blank/empty virtual HDD, you can skip a few steps next time.

Talking of mysteries, when my son was training as a PC techo, he spent a year in a government teaching institution dedicated to trainees, with hands on experience; and the head guy there was an ex top techo from M$ Australia.

On one occasion my son asked the head honcho how to trouble shoot a particular problem he was working on, and the head guy replied: Simple! Reload Windows! Yet another mystery in the realm of PC teachers.

In my experience, it is definitely quicker (in most cases) to simply reimage your PC (assuming you have recent backups).

It takes ~7 minutes to reimage my OS partition.
It usually takes me much longer to find the correct answer on the Internet.

Sometimes it can be faster to reinstall the OS, than to try and isolate the problem and then locate the appropriate fix.

 

[PhyllisColeman]

but i believe you ..

 

[DJRoff]

I tried installing my ISOs in a VM to see if they were going to work, before I burned a disc.

I put it down to the "mysterious mysteries of computing" (like how FF crashes non-stop on some machines and yet it runs perfectly on others).

Never got comfy with VM modes at all, for whatever reason. Your way was smarter, but I had such a glut of cheap CD-Rs and DVD-Rs hanging about, I just used the blunt-force method.

I use VMware Workstation (v7) on W7 and VMware Player (v5) on Linux Mint.

VMware Player is free.
https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_player/5_0

My method:

• Start VMware and choose the "Create a New Virtual Machine" option
• I create a blank/empty virtual HDD (choose the "I will install the operating system later" option)
• Once the blank/empty virtual HDD has been created, point the virtual CD/DVD drive at the OS ISO file
• Start the VM
• Install the OS as normal

If you save a copy of the blank/empty virtual HDD, you can skip a few steps next time.

Thanks for that info, I went to your link and snagged it. Will give it a whirl!

 

[DJRoff]

Talking of mysteries, when my son was training as a PC techo, he spent a year in a government teaching institution dedicated to trainees, with hands on experience; and the head guy there was an ex top techo from M$ Australia.

On one occasion my son asked the head honcho how to trouble shoot a particular problem he was working on, and the head guy replied: Simple! Reload Windows! Yet another mystery in the realm of PC teachers.

In my experience, it is definitely quicker (in most cases) to simply reimage your PC (assuming you have recent backups).

It takes ~7 minutes to reimage my OS partition.
It usually takes me much longer to find the correct answer on the Internet.

Sometimes it can be faster to reinstall the OS, than to try and isolate the problem and then locate the appropriate fix.

I suspect this will always be true. But that can be like replacing a child because he cries. Eventually, the new one will probably cry, too. Better to find out what's making him cry, so it doesn't happen over and over again, eh?