Is Start Menu really matter?

[mdmd]

Yes. it's a lot of extra steps and massive amounts of extra mouse travel. Worse than useles on a desktop.

Incorrect. Untrue. It would be better to state you prefer Windows 7. Actually, 8 requires far less pointer movements and steps. Windows 8 is far easier to use than previous versions.

Not liking 8 so far and it has been about 3 weeks now...just shutting down was something I had to google

This is a recurring theme. Did you ignore the help animation to use the corners? Did you press F1? Do you know about F1? This canard about needing to do a search to find the shutdown is preposterous. If you needed to do that, do you really know what you are doing? Do you know about alt-F4? Do you know about Ctrl Alt Del? Do you know about shutting down with your power button? Do you know about shutting down with task manager?

 

[pparks1]

Yes. it's a lot of extra steps and massive amounts of extra mouse travel. Worse than useles on a desktop.

Incorrect. Untrue. It would be better to state you prefer Windows 7. Actually, 8 requires far less pointer movements and steps. Windows 8 is far easier to use than previous versions.

Not liking 8 so far and it has been about 3 weeks now...just shutting down was something I had to google

This is a recurring theme. Did you ignore the help animation to use the corners? Did you press F1? Do you know about F1? This canard about needing to do a search to find the shutdown is preposterous. If you needed to do that, do you really know what you are doing? Do you know about alt-F4? Do you know about Ctrl Alt Del? Do you know about shutting down with your power button? Do you know about shutting down with task manager?

Easier to use, huh? Don't remember having to explain to Windows users how to shut down when they went to 2000-xp-vista-7..but yet I have had to help numerous people who couldn't figure it out in 8.

Others couldn't figure out how to close a metro app.

 

[Mustang]

Are you sure about that ? Last time I checked I didn't think it gave me transparent aero glass on window borders.

"These bland ugly colors have to go, their a distraction and stick out like a sore thumb. At least the aero glass made it translucent so your programs stuck out more and not the window borders. I want alittle shine to my OS and not have it dull and unappealing"

Totally agree, the bland colors are pathetic compared to W7.

I'm using W8 Pro OEM on disk bought from retail computer shop, and aero works fine. Desktop peek is in far right side of bottom Notifidcation area.

You also need to right click Desktop and Personalize --> Windows color and drag the Color Intensity bar across to the left.

 

[Mustang]

A mess?

A mess?​

You picture is out of context. Show it in the context of a full screen. Start Menu takes up 6% of screen. And show all your other entries in Metro screen without cutting anything.

This pic is with Office menu/Sub menu/sub sub menu ... all in less than two square inches. And without ever leaving the desktop.

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Also when working on desktop and you need to open anything in Metro that is not a desktop icon or shortcut in task bar, you need to leave the desktop to find it in an array of tiles. And this has to be done for every application this applies to. So if you need to open 3 or 4 such applications, you need to go off the desktop and back three or four times. How is that quicker than never leaving the desktop?

Also in Metro all shortcuts have to be added to task bar, and any other shortcuts custom made to AppData, Start Menu in Program Data, etc. With Orb Start Menu it's already there neatly set up withou having to group tiles, name groups, create short cuts on task bar.

80% of my desktop shortcuts are created whan an application is loaded. And the list goes on. Orb Start Menu is more efficient in setting up and in running, space wise and number of commands wise and never leaving desk top.

If you like Metro go for it, but don't knock others who prefer a more efficient system.

And who wants to start using keyboard commands? The whole idea of a mouse is to point and click icons, shortcuts, Menu/shutdown, log off, drop down menus .... If we're gong to do that kind of stuff with a keyboard lets go back to DOS and be done with it.

As I said before, for those who cannot see the light ...

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[mdmd]

sub, sub, sub menu... what next? We agree to disagree. I don't care for your desktop arrangement either. ... don't like that block menu, don't like nesting... ok. You could say I am a fan of 8 but you all should admit to being fan people of Windows 7 or other.

 

[Mystere]

Easier to use, huh? Don't remember having to explain to Windows users how to shut down when they went to 2000-xp-vista-7..but yet I have had to help numerous people who couldn't figure it out in 8.

Others couldn't figure out how to close a metro app.

You would have to be a complete and total idiot to not understand that pressing the power button turns off your computer as much as it turns it on.

 

[Mustang]

Who would want to shut down a computer mechanically when there is an onscreen electronic switch option accessible with a mouse click. Who uses mechanical shut down anymore?

And there's not just shut down in the same Orb Start Menu, but sleep, log off, lock, etc. One neat package.

Ho hum! Boring!

 

[Mustang]

sub, sub, sub menu... what next? We agree to disagree. I don't care for your desktop arrangement either. ... don't like that block menu, don't like nesting... ok. You could say I am a fan of 8 but you all should admit to being fan people of Windows 7 or other.

I'm a fan of using whatever system is proven to be most mechanically efficient. And what could be more efficient than:

• Desktop icons for frequently used.
• Jump start menu for less frequently used.
• Alpha numeric cascaded menu for seldom used.
• Never having to leave the desktop.
• Everything auto arranged in groups in start menu. No need to arrange tiles or shorcuts to task bar.
• User Name link to AppData, contacts, favorites, etc; plus shortcuts to Computer, Control Panel, etc
• Ability to send shortcuts to desktop from Start Menu items.
• Abiltiy to rename menu items, drag/drop items from sub menu to main menu.
• Desktop toolbar to open desktop shortcuts when mutliple windows open.

As I've said before, show me how native 8 is more efficient and I'll use it. I've been using 8 on my backup machine in it's native state with no orb start menu, and using every artifice shown in this forum to do each and every job I do on a daily basis on my flagship with W7 for nearly two weeks now. And I'm going to continue to do so for at least two or three months. And if it proves to be more efficient I'll be the first to admit it.

However, I don't need to get a tape measure and physically measure 50 or 60 triangles to prove the sum of any two sides of a triangle is together greater than the third, when I can prove it in 30 seconds with Euclidean geometry. Or prove/disprove the logic of a set of propositions by repeated trial and error when it can be proved/disproved by Boolean Algebra or logic tables in a fraction of the time. Similary, I dont have to do the same job 50 or 60 times that takes 2 clicks on W7 and 4 clicks on W8 to prove W7 is more efficient.

Mechanical efficiency is a different concept to personal choice. If someopne prefers Metro, I say good for them. Go for it. That does not prove it is more mechanically efficient. I acknowledge that we're all inidividuals and some people "see things" rather than think them. And if they find tiles/icons more efficient than text, again I say good for them. Go for it.

Einstein said most of his major insights and big breakthroughs came when he wasn't even thinking of the subject matter. But rather they came out of the blue from left field from his sub-consicous, not his conscious mind. I'm sure most people who do cryptic crosswords have had the experience of staring at a clue for ages and have no idea of the answer. They walk away and come back next day and take one look at it and the answer pops into their head ... the subconscious at work in the interim. Cryptic crosswords also help to ward off alzheimers.

But like I said before, the more people that start using W8, the more you're going to hear the same complaints, so get used to it, and instead of criticizing them, just point them in the right direction of using W8 in the most efficient way you understand to use it, whether that be Metro, Orb Start menu or whatever. Then they can make an informed decision whether they use it with Metro, hacked Orb Start Menu or ditch it totally.

 

[mdmd]

Hello again. "mechanical efficiency" sub, sub, sub, sub menus ... yikes !

I am just so glad to have something different to use. yeaaaaah !!

 

[Mustang]

Sorry mdmd my background is in electronic/civil engineering and that's how I approach things on a professional level. And if you like Metro as is, I respect your right to your choice. No problemo. Live and let live. :thumb:

But don't tell me W8 in native state is more efficient than Win7 in native state unless you're prepared to prove it. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone ... just stating that my experience with W7 is that it's more efficient in it's native state than 8 ... space wise, logistic wise and intuitive wise.

 

[topgundcp]

Who would want to shut down a computer mechanically when there is an onscreen electronic switch option accessible with a mouse click. Who uses mechanical shut down anymore?

And there's not just shut down in the same Orb Start Menu, but sleep, log off, lock, etc. One neat package.

Ho hum! Boring!

I, myself never care for Start Menu in the first place, and I dont mind the Start Screen either...and I truly believe every version of Windows that came out, they make it for the better, not for the worse and the same holds true for Windows 8.

If you don't want to leave the desktop just to do the Shutdown, restart etc... Put those things in your context menu, there are a lot of freewares that help you do that, Mr. Google is your friend.

IMHO, Using the context menu is actually more efficient than using the Start Menu, I dont have to move the mouse to the corner, click on the Orb and travel down to menu tree to get to what I want to run.

Here are the screens as what I am trying to show. And, yes, you can run a Metro App together with your desktop, there are a lot of things that we have not discovered yet and we just jump to conclusion too early. Give it time......





And yes, Windows 8 runs a lot faster and smoother than the earlier versions.

 

[Mustang]

@topgundcp. Fair enough if it works for you. But notice I said Windows 8 in it's native state. You're talking about using third party apps and Google to get what W7 Orb Start Menu already has in native state.

And likewise you're talking about having to add the options to your context menu which W7 shut down already has in native state.

And I never said you couldn't run a metro app together with your desktop. I said if you need to access 3 or 4 items from Metro start screeen you need to leave desktop to access Metro, and return 3 or 4 times to do what you never need to leave desktop to do in W7.

And look at the space it's taking up compared to W7 start menu which occupies about 6% of desktop.

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I have both W7 & 8 on SATA3 SSD HDs, heaps of RAM and top end CPUs and hardly notice any difference between them in speed. But in any case, why wouldn't 8 be qucker when it's been stripped down to make it work in smartfones/tables? That's why it's so bland.

Re every new version being better than the last. Are you serious? Millenium springs to mind, and a few others. Each new system must be judged on it's merits, not just because M$ created it. M$ has a hisory of hit/miss, hit/miss.

 

[pparks1]

Easier to use, huh? Don't remember having to explain to Windows users how to shut down when they went to 2000-xp-vista-7..but yet I have had to help numerous people who couldn't figure it out in 8.

Others couldn't figure out how to close a metro app.

You would have to be a complete and total idiot to not understand that pressing the power button turns off your computer as much as it turns it on.

It might turn it off, it might put it to sleep, it might hard shut down. This idiot always shuts down from within the operating system.

 

[shane88]

Well I'm giving up for now, I've been scowering the internet for any solution to bring back aero glass, but nothing has been made available yet. So I'm tired of looking everyday at this dull and bland desktop, I cussed at the thing many times, I just like to have a windows that looks nice. No I don't just sit and stare at it all day, but when I work I like to have nice windows, it makes me feel comfortable. So untill MS provides a fix or option I've gone back to Windows 8 RP. And it really feels nice to be back, this is how MS should have stuck with the desktop and left it alone. It feels like they took almost everything away from desktop users and I've had enough, so I'm staying on this version until an aero glass option is made or RP is timebomb removed. And I'm happy.

 

[aramil]

I am going to show my age now but these arguments are no different to when we went from 3.11 to 95.....

No file menu.... no option menu..... no window menu....

World still survived. .......

 

[topgundcp]

@topgundcp. Fair enough if it works for you. But notice I said Windows 8 in it's native state. You're talking about using third party apps and Google to get what W7 Orb Start Menu already has in native state.

And likewise you're talking about having to add the options to your context menu which W7 shut down already has in native state.

And I never said you couldn't run a metro app together with your desktop. I said if you need to access 3 or 4 items from Metro start screeen you need to leave desktop to access Metro, and return 3 or 4 times to do what you never need to leave desktop to do in W7.

And look at the space it's taking up compared to W7 start menu which occupies about 6% of desktop.

View attachment 12256​

I have both W7 & 8 on SATA3 SSD HDs, heaps of RAM and top end CPUs and hardly notice any difference between them in speed. But in any case, why wouldn't 8 be qucker when it's been stripped down to make it work in smartfones/tables? That's why it's so bland.

Re every new version being better than the last. Are you serious? Millenium springs to mind, and a few others. Each new system must be judged on it's merits, not just because M$ created it. M$ has a hisory of hit/miss, hit/miss.

Note that the very first thing I said that I never care for the Start Menu in the 1st place so with Windows 8, it does not make any different to me. As a windows User, we always tend to customize our system to the way we work with, am i not correct ? as seen on your desktop, you have a bunch of shortcut icons on it, grouping together the way you work with so to me, it is the same as the Start Screen having a bunch of icons grouping together, just hidden so at least my desktop is cleaner with no icons.

You also show your screen with the Start Menu popup which occupies only 6% of the whole screen and I believe the context menu that I have shown would occupy the same amount of space. But, Do you always use that 1 single menu or you most of the time have to click down to the menu tree to get to what you want to run ?

I don't really have to use any third party software to create a context menu, they are just little tweaks in the system registry that I can create using notepad but since there is freeware that would do the tedious editing for me, then I use it and I don't consider using a third party software, it is a tool to help me achieve what I want then it sits in the corner of my hard drive, I don't have it running or installed anywhere in my PC.

I'll give you an example when I compare the speed between W7 & W8. With Microsoft Office Suite, sometimes it take 3,4 seconds or even longer for the application to appear on the screen with W7, with W8 it is almost instant, and this is the same PC that I have both on, and I have all the software that were installed in W7 carried over to W8. that include the Adobe Creative Suite, Video editing from Pinnacle, Cyberlink etc.... They all run faster and smoother.

Please understand that I am not saying that you were wrong, just try to say there's a lot of things that we can do to make our life easier when working with it. Windows 8 is here to stay, so we just have to get used to it and nobody is twisting your arms to use it.

 

[Mustang]

@topgundcp. How you use it is entirely up to you. But we're really talking at cross purposes. I was comparing W7 Orb Start Menu in it's native state with Metro in it's native state to see which was more efficient.

You're not using W8 it in it's native state. You've created a context menu, and done it using either registry tweaks or third party apps. And I would guess you probably only use Metro very sparingly, if at all. So my posts do not apply to you in the sense I'm talking about. You're comparing Orb Start Menu to a created Context Menu, not Metro.

Also from your picture which shows your desktop with the context menu on it, it clearly occupies a lot more space than traditional Orb Start Menu. Also, compared to Metro icons attached to the task bar, my grouped icons use less than 17% of desktop, and to me they look very tidy and work very well.

My original post stated: I'm a fan of using whatever system is proven to be most mechanically efficient. So how would Metro in it's native state be more efficient than:

• Desktop icons for frequently used.
• Jump start menu for less frequently used.
• Alpha numeric cascaded menu for seldom used.
• Never having to leave the desktop.
• Everything auto arranged in groups in start menu. No need to arrange tiles or shorcuts to task bar. 80% of desktop shortcuts are auto created when the app is installed.
• User Name link to AppData, contacts, favorites, etc; plus shortcuts to Computer, Control Panel, etc
• Ability to send shortcuts to desktop from Start Menu items.
• Abiltiy to rename menu items, drag/drop items from sub menu to main menu.
• Desktop toolbar to open desktop shortcuts when mutliple windows open.

Purely from the point of view of mechanical efficiency you have not demonstrated that Metro is more efficient than Orb Start Menu.

However, from the point of view of the thread title, obviously if you never used Start Menu in the past, then you won't miss it, so your response is fair comment. But we're talking about the many thousands of people who have, and still want to use it because they find it more efficient or just plain like it or whatever. The very fact that there are so many third party hacks to restore a tradional start menu, and people willing to even pay for it, shows it is missed. So in response to the suggestion that we should get used to it, that's not going to happen and it won't go away.

Why would an average Joe bother going to all the trouble of creating a context menu when Orb Start Menu has already got it all set out in one neat package? The only reason would be because they're forced to if they want W8 ... or use a hacked start menu.

Anyhoo, I imagine you would disagree with that statement, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, hey?

 

[topgundcp]

@Mustang, OK, that's fair... It is just all started out about having going thru 3,4 steps to shutdown, restart the PC, and I was trying to show different ways to do things without ever going to the Start Screen. You see, I didn't even argue with anybody whether the Start Screen is good or not. I myself don't use it but I am not against it.

And no, the context menu I show would be the same size as the Start Menu, I just magnify the context portion for readability.

Anyhoo, it's fun chatting with you, PEACE !!!

Well, at least we have something in common that be both are FLYERS.

 

[Mustang]

@topgundcp. Yeah I seriously looked at alternatives to Start Menu and asked other more knowledgeable members like RobR how they did it without one. Since I never use M$ apps I ended up using Ex7ForW8 which imports Explorer 7 from W7 installation disc, and areo. And direct boots to desktop; and shuts down Metro/Explorer 8 shell when using Ex7 shell; although as you probably know, Ex8 Shell/Metro can still be accessed by a toggle switch, but not simultaneously with Ex7.

As you say, each to their own, and good chatting. Anyone who comes from Cal-if-forn-i-a, and likes topgun planes has got to be OK in my book! My son in law was a paratrooper in the armed services and was seconded by US military and did a three year stint in Ca, and loved it there and was sad to have to leave.

I got my wings back in '73 on a Piper Cherokee, and my all time favorite, if you haven't already guessed, is the P51, rightly called "Cadillac of the Skies" in the movie "Empire of the Sun". The straffing scene of the airfield was incredible. Smart bombs are obviously more effective, but don't convey the same sense of being in live combat.

Peace brother. Go well. M :thumb:

 

[Ray8]

Why do people keep refering to Microsoft as M$? If anything, Apple is the company that sucks money out of people for far less in return. I'm sorry, but when I see such things in someone's post, they immediately lose credibility in my book.