Is Start Menu really matter?

[symbiont]

This is one of the problems with this industry....people find things that look like that, beautiful

I know. How disgusting, useless, offensive, unintuitive, jarring, awkward, repugnant, difficult, ugly, not fit for purpose.

This is much, much, much, much, much, much, better
I love sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, nesting

View attachment 12485

Yes, comparing it to the 2001 rendition of the start menu is the right way to go. You should give the PR department at MS a call. - might be a job waiting for you.

 

[mbratch]

This is one of the problems with this industry....people find things that look like that, beautiful

I know. How disgusting, useless, offensive, unintuitive, jarring, awkward, repugnant, difficult, ugly, ... etc
not fit for purpose.

This is much, much, much, much, much, much, better
I love sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, nesting

View attachment 12485

To be fair, the commonly accessed programs, in equivalence to your Win8 Start screen scenario, would have been pinned to the start menu so you wouldn't have to do the deep dive. The deep dive is there to get to "anything" you have. It ain't pretty in Win8 to get to "just anything" either. Both Windows 7 and Windows 8 do offer the ability to do a quick search, which is nice. But it's not unique to Windows 8. Really the only difference in Windows 8 is that you're pinning them to a whole screen instead of a click menu, in this particular example.

 

[symbiont]

This is one of the problems with this industry....people find things that look like that, beautiful

I know. How disgusting, useless, offensive, unintuitive, jarring, awkward, repugnant, difficult, ugly, ... etc
not fit for purpose.

This is much, much, much, much, much, much, better
I love sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, nesting

View attachment 12485

To be fair, the commonly accessed programs, in equivalence to your Win8 Start screen scenario, would have been pinned to the start menu so you wouldn't have to do the deep dive. The deep dive is there to get to "anything" you have. It ain't pretty in Win8 to get to "just anything" either. Both Windows 7 and Windows 8 do offer the ability to do a quick search, which is nice. But it's not unique to Windows 8. Really the only difference in Windows 8 is that you're pinning them to a whole screen instead of a click menu, in this particular example.

He knows damn well that people even in XP wouldn't use a Start Menu like that for the same every day programs he has tied to his start screen. He's simply one of the Win8 mouthpieces here that can't see it from both sides.

 

[mdmd]

The future of Windows.

 

[mbratch]

The future of Windows.

View attachment 12489

Ah... someone who actually knows how to multitask.
If it gets too confusing for you, there's a little "X" or "_" in the upper right hand corner you can click to get rid of some of those. Pretty simple. One click.

 

[mdmd]

....in the upper right hand corner you can click to get rid of some of those. Pretty simple. One click.

I say the same thing about multitasking in 8.
Upper right hand corner... hmmm... lower left hand corner... scroll the start menu...
find the nested sub, sub, sub link... move to middle, left upper and click X, move to lower bottom right, click X, move back to bottom left and click the sub, sub, sub, level...

resize that window... move the window... minimize the window... reopen the window... close the window...
maximize the window... Find the icon on the desktop... Find the icon on the taskbar...
Find the icon on the start menu... What's the difference...

 

[symbiont]

The future of Windows.

View attachment 12489

Since none of the things you have open there are Metro apps, with the exception of IE - I fail to see your point. If you had all those open at the same time in Win8 Desktop it would look the same. Strike three.

 

[mdmd]

Since none of the things you have open there are Metro apps, with the exception of IE

This is not about metro apps. It is about does the start menu really matter...

I fail to see your point

Exactly.

If you had all those open at the same time in Win8 Desktop it would look the same

The future of Windows picture is the Windows 8 desktop.

 

[symbiont]

Since none of the things you have open there are Metro apps, with the exception of IE

This is not about metro apps. It is about does the start menu really matter...

I fail to see your point

Exactly.

If you had all those open at the same time in Win8 Desktop it would look the same

The future of Windows picture is the Windows 8 desktop.

Ok, so a desktop picture of open windows has what to do with if the Start Menu matters?!? That's what I thought.

 

[mbratch]

This is not about metro apps. It is about does the start menu really matter...

OK but your pic of all those open apps had nothing to do with start menu.

Back to the start menu, I can see how under most circumstances the Metro UI start screen serves the same purpose as a desktop start menu. The only difference being visual. But the start menu on the desktop does more than that: it gives you links for control panel, file system, computer, network, etc. So I like it for that. Is there an equivalent on the Metro Start screen? I know there are some Administrative apps that can be run from there, but does the other items?

 

[mdmd]

Ok, so a desktop picture of open windows has what to do with if the Start Menu matters

It is about the compare and contrast issues of start menu vs start screen (and apps area) involved with opening the current version of the desktop. It is basically all the same for now. Others differ on their views of efficiency. One could make the case that they prefer a start menu to work on the desktop. Ok. That does not invalidate the apps area and start screen as effective. They could both be used. I believe one could function without a traditional start menu but others believe it is essential.

 

[mdmd]

OK but your pic of all those open apps had nothing to do with start menu.

Yes it does. You see a start menu at the bottom left. It is about the confusion that does exist in almost any Microsoft product. It is about the effort necessary to get work done. The efficiency measurements are marginal. It is mostly preference but many will aggressively disagree with that. Does the start menu really matter? Many would say Windows 8 is rubbish because of the start screen. Many ask where is the menu? Many say a full screen of app listings in the apps area is for touch / tablet / phones... and not suitable for a desktop pc. IMO > The traditional blocky corner square start menu is not the alpha and omega of a desktop utility IMO.
You are entitled to a point of view that Windows 8 is not fit for purpose. I think it is.

 

[darvin]

If you think Windows 8 will be the failure you claim it will be, then there shouldn't be any concern.

I never stated I thought Windows 8 would fail. I said I feared it potentially could due the lack of integration between Metro and the desktop.

Let's not forget the product is named "Windows" for a reason. Metro doesn't do windows. I see no reason why MS chose to restrict Metro to full screen only on a desktop. It would have made it a lot simpler for everyone.

And from my experience thus far, it doesn't make very good use of multiple monitors. That is, I cannot run a Metro app on each screen. I realize.... "it's a transitional OS", but there is no good reason it can't do that. Which ever screen I open Metro on, the other shows me half of my desktop. If I open Metro on the other screen, it moves to it rather than open a new instance of it.

OT but I checked out Ravio. All their Google apps have a paid version so it doesn't look like they have given up on selling it. Besides, they are a game company. Notoriously difficult market to break in to. They've done better than most.

 

[Ray8]

Puget Systems says PC buyers are "reluctant" to step up to Windows 8.
Puget posted a graph reflecting the sales disparity between the two OSes, and since the day Windows 8 launched, it's been bouncing back and forth between about 10 percent and 20 percent of total sales.

"The lack of substantial spike in initial Windows 8 sales shows that our customers are reluctant to wade into the waters of Microsoft’s newest operating system," Puget says.

In addition, Puget believes "the removal of the Start menu is a deal breaker for many," and though there are ways around that, we can understand it being a turnoff for some users.

Puget Systems Provides Inside Look at Windows 8 vs 7 Sales | Maximum PC

 

[mbratch]

Puget Systems says PC buyers are "reluctant" to step up to Windows 8.
Puget posted a graph reflecting the sales disparity between the two OSes, and since the day Windows 8 launched, it's been bouncing back and forth between about 10 percent and 20 percent of total sales.

"The lack of substantial spike in initial Windows 8 sales shows that our customers are reluctant to wade into the waters of Microsoft’s newest operating system," Puget says.

In addition, Puget believes "the removal of the Start menu is a deal breaker for many," and though there are ways around that, we can understand it being a turnoff for some users.

Puget Systems Provides Inside Look at Windows 8 vs 7 Sales | Maximum PC

A little OT from the start menu topic, but Windows sales numbers are a little funny in that they partly reflect what ships as standard equipment on machines. Unfortunately, it's hard to count how many people change them after they get them. I've seen a lot of posts on other forums from people wanting to load Windows 7 in place of the Windows 8 that shipped with the laptop they bought. Or even vice versa, how many Windows 7 PCs were bought and then upgraded to Windows 8. Does that count as a Windows 7 sale and a Windows 8 sale? Or just a Windows 8 sale? I suspect, depending upon license (whether it's an upgrade or a full version) it could count as one or both.

 

[mbratch]

You are entitled to a point of view that Windows 8 is not fit for purpose. I think it is.

In the case of Windows, purpose is subjective. However, I am now interested in going back and revisiting the Start screen to see. My first go at it (and I did give it a good shake) I seem to recall running into certain limitations I didn't like. I am usually in the habit of having a couple of documents on my desktop that I open and use frequently. So I was having to go to the desktop first, then access the document rather than have it "right there". Not that big of a deal, but I was thinking, "why do I need to do this extra action to do what I want to do when the Start screen doesn't really provide me any other real benefit?". Also, I may have not liked the "feel" of it seemingly popping into one environment for most of my favorite apps (the desktop) only to have me have to manually pop back to the Start screen to do something else. Indeed, it's the same number of clicks as a Start menu, but it just seemed... odd. And, I want to avoid an environment where I have both "start menu" methods (the new one for most things, and the old one for things the new one doesn't handle), it's just too schizo. But I do plan to go back and examine the Win8 start screen again in light of our discussion and confirm or update my first impressions.

 

[gazz9496]

It's more than just being afraid of change, I'd it were that, I would not have even tried Windows 8.

Unintuitive and awkward are the best terms I have for describing Windows 8. Got a call from my dad, who was helping a friend who just bought a new laptop with Windows 8. Both of them have over 30 years experience with computers and have used every version of Windows, including versions before 3.1. Their problem, neither could figure out how to shut down the computer without simply pressing the power button on the computer. Both were convinced I was pulling their leg when I explained how to do it via the charms menu.

Some like Windows 8, some dislike it, but I think most are simply tolerating it.

that's exactly what i did to some people at work, dropped a windows 8 machine in front of them and said shut it down without pressing the power button.

one clever fellow used alt-f4

none of them found the actual power off switch in the charms bar/settings/power...why on earth would you look that far into something just to switch it off?

while i have issues with how apps are displayed and restrictive and can't be resized at the users descretion i have no real problems with the o/s.

it just doesn't feel that open and well windows like, it feels like i'm being told how to use my pc all of a sudden and perhaps that's why i'm not in a rush to put it on my main pc.

 

[Mystere]

Why on earth would you prohibit them from pressing the power button? That's how you're SUPPOSED to turn it off.

 

[Ray8]

Why on earth would you prohibit them from pressing the power button? That's how you're SUPPOSED to turn it off.

If you turn it off at the hardware power button, then you're not shutting down running background processes and you'll get a check disk error on startup. That's why there's a software shutdown button.

 

[Mystere]

That's simply not true. Pressing the power button will gracefully shut down your computer, as it has since at least Windows 98 (Assuming you had an ATX motherboard and not an older AT style). Try it.