I am still keeping my documents in c:\docs\ - Am I mad?

All you can do is create a restore point and hope for the best. But this might not work
Good point, disk error or serious file\OS corruption = any restore point rendered useless. I do regular imaging to external disk, Easeus has been working great here, and in addition keeping some Macrium images just in case.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8.1, W7
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP \ Toshiba \ Lenovo \ Dell E7440
    Browser
    FF
Regarding having multiple partitions surely having too many become inefficient if for no other reason than because you need to leave some blank space in each one and so if you run out of space in one partition you can't use the spare space from any other partitions. To make the point - taken ad obsurdum if you had say 100 partitions just imagine the problems!

You can run out of space if you don't plan (correctly) before you allocate you HDD/SSD space. :)

I'm not sure what happens once you reach drive letter Z: in Windows.

lehnerus2000
Please can you say more about imaging. I understand that there is no longer any (built-in) way backing up the operating system in Windows 8. All you can do is create a restore point and hope for the best. But this might not work. And I would be very VERY unhappy if I lost literally days and days of work getting my Windows 8 with all my settings and applications nicely installed.

So is there any way of backing up an entire (512GB) disk, preferably stored nicely compressed onto some external hard disk? If so what software would you recommend to do so?

I prefer to use Macrium Reflect.
Imaging with free Macrium - Windows 7 Help Forums

Other people have their own favourite imaging software.

You don't have to backup each partition individually.
You can select all of the partitions on a given HDD/SSD and image them in the one operation.
Macrium will allow you to save your image to an external HDD (it will take longer as external drives are generally slower then internal drives).

I have an internal Backup partition and I save my images to that.
I copy them to external drives when I don't need to use my PC (i.e. overnight).
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
... I have an internal Backup partition and I save my images to that.
I copy them to external drives when I don't need to use my PC (i.e. overnight).
This seems very inefficient. Is there a reason that you don't schedule the backup to run overnight but point the backup at your external drive?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built i7-8700K, Hp Envy x360 EVO Laptop, MS Surface Pro 7
    CPU
    3.7Ghz Core i7-8700K, 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 4.7Ghz, 10th Gen Core™ i5-1035G4 1.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    ASUS TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, HP, MS
    Memory
    16G, 8G, 8G
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon RX580, Intel Iris X Graphics, Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4
    Sound Card
    ATI High Definition Audio (Built-in to mobo)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual Samsung U32J59 32 inch monitors, 13.3" display, 12.3" display
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160 (Desktop), 1920x1080 (laptop), 2736x1824 Pro 7
    Hard Drives
    500GB ssd boot drive with 2 & 10TB Data (Desktop), 512GB ssd (laptop), 128GB SSD (tablet)
    PSU
    Corsair CX 750M
    Case
    Antec 100
    Cooling
    Coolermaster CM 212+
    Keyboard
    IBM Model M - used continuously since 1986
    Mouse
    Microsoft IntelliMouse
    Internet Speed
    665Mbps/15Mbps down/up
    Browser
    FireFox, MS Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender on all
    Other Info
    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.
I have a 120GB SSD to boot my OS and I have all of my libraries pointed to my 3TB hard drive, so all of my data is stored there, as well as temp files, etc... Works well for me...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 10 Pro 64bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built Intel i7-3770k-based system
    CPU
    Intel i7-3770k, Overclocked to 4.6GHz (46x100) with Corsair H110i GT cooler
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z77 OC Formula 2.30 BIOS
    Memory
    32GB DDR3 2133 Corsair Vengeance Pro
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX 980ti SC ACS 6GB DDR5 by EVGA
    Sound Card
    Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, Corsair SP2500 speakers and subwoofer
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG 27EA33 [Monitor] (27.2"vis) HDMI
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB (system drive)
    WD 6TB Red NAS hard drives x 2 in Storage Spaces (redundancy)
    PSU
    Corsair 750ax fully modular power supply with sleeved cables
    Case
    Corsair Air 540 with 7 x 140mm fans on front, rear and top panels
    Cooling
    Corsair H110i GT liquid cooled CPU with 4 x 140" Corsair SP "push-pull" and 3 x 140mm fans
    Keyboard
    Thermaltake Poseidon Z illuminated keyboard
    Mouse
    Corsair M65 wired
    Internet Speed
    85MBps DSL
    Browser
    Chrome and Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, MalwareBytes Pro and CCleaner Pro
    Other Info
    Client of Windows Server 2012 R2 10 PC's, laptops and smartphones on the WLAN.

    1GBps Ethernet ports
A few reasons ...

... I have an internal Backup partition and I save my images to that.
I copy them to external drives when I don't need to use my PC (i.e. overnight).
This seems very inefficient. Is there a reason that you don't schedule the backup to run overnight but point the backup at your external drive?

A few reasons:
  • External HDDs (most of mine are USB2) are pathetically slow compared to internal drives.
  • Every time I tried to restore using the Linux recovery disc, it couldn't locate external HDDs (only internal and network)
  • I like to see that the operation has been completed (we get power failures due to fallen tree branches, usually overnight)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
I always move all the data to other drives (by default) but for different reason, in case I have to reformat BOOT drive (or partition) than I don't loose data. Important data is always backed up on two other media. Better safe than sorry.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
Wait... I'm confused. How exactly is Microsoft *scre**ng* desktop users? They're only "scre**ng" people that disregarding Microsoft's explicit warnings to never do this in anything other than a test environment, and to not use these settings on your production machines.

In other words, the technique used to move the profile folder is unsupported, has never been supported, and was always "use at your own risk, cause it could completely blow up on you at any moment". And when it does, suddenly it's Microsoft's fault.

And you guys wonder why Microsoft doesn't like to give too many configuration options...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
I saw this thread and I thought I'd put in my views and experiences.

I have quite a few SATA ports on my motherboard so I use them all. I have 6 physical SATA drives amounting to 14TB of storage.
I have tried to partition things so that as many drives as possible can be used in parallel - that is, the drives have specific functions. That's because the main thing slowing down a drive is the access time moving the read/write head to the right platter spot. I am trying to allow 6 heads to work in parallel as much as possible.

One drive is for Retrospect nightly incremental file backups and another is for periodic Acronis system image backups.
I also have a drive partition that I use to hold my music, video and installation files. I never back this up because it is so big, but I do duplicate it to a separate drive and synchronize the two with ROBOCOPY scripts.

On these two last physical drives I have two partitions each. The lower partition is for the music, video and install files, the other partition is called TMP1 and TMP2. These are at the top and very small. The top area has the fastest access times so I use these small partitions for things like the page files, the TEMP folders, the Windows Search database, Google caches, etc.
I use environment variables to set TEMP paths here, and the other things are set using various control panel settings. For the Google stuff, I make a symlink in the AppData folder on the C: drive to the other partitions.

For the user shell folders and libraries that are usually in C:\User\<user>, I use the Locate tab on these folders to put them on other drives.

So, basically, the C drive partition is mostly just the OS and Program Files.

I've been doing this initially in Windows 7 Pro and then upgraded 'in-place' to Windows 8 Pro WMC. I had no problems with that.

But when I upgraded to Windows 8.1 Pro WMC I ran into problems with the User shell folders as outlined here:

http://www.eightforums.com/general-...-8-1-seems-change-way-my-documents-works.html

I fixed these problems by re-"Locate"-ing the user folders and editing remaining registry problems with RegEdit.

I have no idea why this irregularity happened to me, others have not reported anything odd as far as I know.

I went back to check my old Windows 8 images to see if I did anything unusual in the C:\User\ folders and I did not see anything out of the ordinary.

Windows does make some junctions and links for things like Appdata and stuff like that, but I did not interfere with that stuff.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
Don't confuse 'profile folders' with 'user shell folders'. These are different beasts. I would never move a profile folder.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
Well, you are doing a number of customizations that are probably pretty rare for users to do, and as such probably not part of Microsoft's normal test cases. It sounds like the majority of your problem is related to registry entries somehow being remapped, not with the actual relocation of the Documents folder, because that's a fully supported scenario.

Upgrades are, however, always problematic.. Particularly if you have a lot of customizations. Windows tends to "reset" things to default configurations when it gets confused, or finds things in a state it doesn't know how to deal with. The goal of the install is to make Windows land in a working default configuration, and they tend to be a bit on the conservative side when it comes to resetting configurations if they might create unstable conditions.

Personally, I always expect upgrades to break things. My SOP is, do the upgrade, and if I find any issues wipe it and reinstall clean. You will spend less time fighting things this way, and you'll get back up to speed in a clean configuration.

In particular, the way MS does upgrades.. they recreate the folder structure and then copy files from the old folder structure to the new. If you're using junction points, then almost certainly those junctions won't get recreated in the new folder structure, and it will just copy the files from those junctions to the default location.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
I would do clean installs, but I have a large number of program applications (over 400) that take a long time to set up. Audio DAW applications, VST's etc.

It would take months to set all that up again.

Here is a small part of the stuff from just one vendor:

Clipboard-1.png

A few years ago when I had far fewer stuff I upgraded from 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows 7 and it took me several months to get things working. I vowed never to miss an OS upgrade again - so long as 'in-place' upgrades were supported - feeble as they may be.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
Wait... I'm confused. How exactly is Microsoft *scre**ng* desktop users? They're only "scre**ng" people that disregarding Microsoft's explicit warnings to never do this in anything other than a test environment, and to not use these settings on your production machines.

How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
"In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.

Apparently MS' RT upgrade installer is causing some people's devices to BSOD too.
Microsoft temporarily pulls Windows RT 8.1 update due to 'a situation' | PCWorld

In other words, the technique used to move the profile folder is unsupported, has never been supported, and was always "use at your own risk, cause it could completely blow up on you at any moment". And when it does, suddenly it's Microsoft's fault.

It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
"In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.

While I can agree that this policy is not very good, it really isn't relevant, since doing an upgrade any other way (including with an ISO) would have the same problem. You could do a clean install, but that would not deal with the issue either, since that would setup Windows in a default configuration.

Apparently MS' RT upgrade installer is causing some people's devices to BSOD too.
Microsoft temporarily pulls Windows RT 8.1 update due to 'a situation' | PCWorld

I agree, upgrades suck. MS has, apparently, issued a disk image to fix this problem.

It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?

Apparently they can't, since doing so is causing lots of problems. So that argument doesn't really work, does it?

Besides, the "Amateurs" are just using the methods Microsoft provided (and explicitly said would break during upgrades).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
... If you're using junction points, then almost certainly those junctions won't get recreated in the new folder structure, and it will just copy the files from those junctions to the default location.

Technically, I use symbolic links (mklink /d ...) not junctions, when I relocate folders to other drives.

I think they were all recreated OK. The Google symlink is still good. Other's I've checked were fine.

The Windows search settings are still good. TEMP, pagefiles, etc., OK.

For some reason, just the User shell folders did not remap properly.

I do not use symbolic links on any of the User Shell Folders - just whatever the 'Locate' tab does/did.

I think Windows 8.1 did something to the way Libraries work, which I think these things are or were.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
Another possibility about my remapping problem may have something to do with SATA enumeration.

I have read somewhere that having multiple SATA drives may affect drive letter rendering due to indeterminate enumeration.

Perhaps during the upgrade, the drives were enumerated differently and Windows could not find the old 'J' drive because it was lettered otherwise.

I hope Window 9 does away with Drive letters once and for all.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
Here it is:

Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks

Disk drive numbers may not correspond as expected to the SATA channel numbers when you install Windows on a computer that has multiple SATA or RAID disks

Note the following:

--------------------


Status

Microsoft has confirmed that this problem is due to design limitations in the Microsoft products that are listed in the "Applies to" section. This problem occurs because drives are enumerated in the order in which they are presented to the operation system by the system BIOS.

[h=5]Applies to[/h]
  • Windows Server 2012 Datacenter
  • Windows Server 2012 Essentials
  • Windows Server 2012 Standard
  • Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise
  • Windows Server 2008 R2 Datacenter
  • Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard
  • Windows Server 2008 Enterprise
  • Windows Server 2008 Datacenter
  • Windows Server 2008 Standard
  • Windows 8 Enterprise
  • Windows 8 Pro
  • Windows 8
  • Windows 7 Enterprise
  • Windows 7 Ultimate
  • Windows 7 Professional
  • Windows 7 Home Premium
  • Windows 7 Home Basic
  • Windows Vista Enterprise
  • Windows Vista Ultimate
  • Windows Vista Business
  • Windows Vista Home Premium
  • Windows Vista Home Basic
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64-bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom-build
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.3 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0
    Memory
    16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (4 banks 4GB DIMM DDR3 8-8-8-24 5-32-12-7 1T 1.5V)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 440
    Sound Card
    Firewire Focusrite Saffire Pro 14
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG W2353V
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    2 of Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS (2TB ea.);
    1 of Seagate Barracuda Green ST2000DL003 (2TB);
    1 of Hitachi Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 (2TB);
    2 of Seagate Desktop ST4000DM000-1F2168 (4TB)
    PSU
    Corsair AX850 Gold
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
    Cooling
    ThermalTake Silent 1156
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech M310
    Internet Speed
    7Mbps
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky
    Other Info
    Event Studio Precision 6 powered audio monitors;
    Boston Acoustics CS Sub 10 Powered Subwoofer;
    NI Kore controller;
    NI Maschine controller;
    M-Audio Axiom 61 keyboard controller; expression pedal; sustain pedal;

    ... and tons of audio software ...

    I also keep two USB 3 thumb drives (A: and B:) attached with boot recovery and security stuff that I can boot into from BIOS in case of emergency
How about forcing people to do an "in-place upgrade", instead of providing a "clean install" option (i.e. no ISO)?
"In-place upgrades" have had a bad reputation for years and have resulted in many posts to Windows help forums.

While I can agree that this policy is not very good, it really isn't relevant, since doing an upgrade any other way (including with an ISO) would have the same problem. You could do a clean install, but that would not deal with the issue either, since that would setup Windows in a default configuration.

If you did a "clean install", you would simply alter the appropriate variable to point to the desired location (at the appropriate step during the installation).

From what I can tell, the W8.1 installer is hard-coded to look in a certain location and if it can't find the file(s) it wants, it has a "dummy spit".

Note:
I have never moved my User Profile.
I only move the internal folders using one of these methods:
  • The "Location" tab
  • By adding an entry in the Libraries (W7)
  • By creating shortcuts (XP)

It is MS' fault that after ~12 versions of Windows, they still haven't been able to figure out a way of providing users with that option.

A so-called "bunch of amateurs working in their garages" can do it, so why can't MS, with its 1000s of professional programers, accomplish it?

Apparently they can't, since doing so is causing lots of problems. So that argument doesn't really work, does it?

Besides, the "Amateurs" are just using the methods Microsoft provided (and explicitly said would break during upgrades).

That was a reference to Linux operating systems. :)

Windows "fanboys" on forums (like ZDNet) use that phrase (or variations of that phrase) when they are trying to prove that Windows is superior to Linux.

As far as I can tell, in Linux you can move almost everything to different locations.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
That was a reference to Linux operating systems. :)

Windows "fanboys" on forums (like ZDNet) use that phrase (or variations of that phrase) when they are trying to prove that Windows is superior to Linux.

As far as I can tell, in Linux you can move almost everything to different locations.

The Linux "OS" is not created or maintained by amateurs. It's done by paid employees of companies like Red Hat, IBM, HP, and a lot of other big names (including Microsoft, to some extent). What tends to be done by Amateurs is the userland stuff...

Linux is highly configurable, but at a huge cost in usability, performance, and maintainability.

Why is it, that after all these years, you *STILL* can't drag and drop things in your typical desktop environment menus? Something you could do in Windows since Windows 95. And why is that applications *STILL* don't have resource forks, with icons and such so that you don't have to manually hook up bitmaps in DE's?

For every thing you can ding Windows on that Linux has, I can ding Linux for 20x over for what it doesn't have.

Linux's problem is not that there aren't smart people working on it.. and it's not even that they don't have the resources to make a system that's user friendly and maintainable... the problem is that everyone has to do things their own way, and they end up duplicating the effort... 20 Window managers and a dozen Desktop Environments... if all those man hours were spent on a unified system, Linux would be a force to be reckoned with... instead they spend their time in gridlock, re-implementing each others code because it doesn't use the correct license, or they don't like that something has too much white space, or some other list of silly reasons.

That's also what keeps Apple and Microsoft from worrying that any significant number of users will abandon their products for Linux.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
The Linux "OS" is not created or maintained by amateurs. It's done by paid employees of companies like Red Hat, IBM, HP, and a lot of other big names (including Microsoft, to some extent). What tends to be done by Amateurs is the userland stuff...

I agree that these days, big companies contribute to Linux (even MS).

Debian develop and fund their distributions on a volunteer basis.
Some companies like Red Hat and SUSE have commercial versions of Linux.
I have no idea where Canonical gets its funds from.

Linux is highly configurable, but at a huge cost in usability, performance, and maintainability.

Basic level users (icon clickers) and Expert users (scripting, terminal jockeys) should have no problems using Linux.
Intermediate level users have the most problems, because they know how to solve problems in their favourite OS, but they are unfamiliar with the Linux Terminal.

I agree that most of the Linux GUI tools are inferior to Windows equivalents.
The main issue I have with Linux GUI tools, is the lack of a "Run as root" option in their context menus.

IMO, File managers are an exception (they are evenly matched).
Caja features, like multi-level copy/cut/paste operations, tabs and navigation options should be included in Windows Explorer.
Windows Explorer features, like the variety of Details view columns and tooltips should be included in Caja.

I'm dubious about your inclusion of performance.
Linux distros:
  • Will generally run on hardware that has difficulty running Windows
  • Run on more device types than Windows (from remote controls all the way up to super computers)
One reason is because they usually don't run AV programs.
On my PC:
  • Linux Mint uses less resources (RAM and HDD space) than W7 does (the OS and programs use less space, than W7 alone).
  • Anecdotally, VMware runs better on Linux, than it does on W7
A notable exception is Ubuntu 13.04.
I read quite a few complaints about it being (apparently) bloated and slow.

I'm also dubious about your inclusion of maintainability.
Linux distros are very low maintenance.
One reason is because they aren't "under siege" from malware creators.

Anecdotally, I can't remember having to reboot Linux Mint (or Ubuntu) more than once, or twice, because of weird behaviour or lock ups.
I have definitely had to reboot Windows (even W7) more than twice (during the same time period).
I've only had one Linux update (for Evolution) that caused major difficulties in Ubuntu.
Since Evolution was a program that I never used I purged it from my OS.

Why is it, that after all these years, you *STILL* can't drag and drop things in your typical desktop environment menus? Something you could do in Windows since Windows 95.

I have no idea what you are trying to describe.
The only W7 menu I can drag items into is the Start Menu.

And why is that applications *STILL* don't have resource forks, with icons and such so that you don't have to manually hook up bitmaps in DE's?

Again, I have no idea what you are trying to describe.
I've never had to find and attach icons to programs.

In the Linux distros I've played with, you can go to a folder (.icons) and find all the icons that the system and most of the programs use.
Another folder (.themes) has all of the GUI theme files.

... the problem is that everyone has to do things their own way, and they end up duplicating the effort... 20 Window managers and a dozen Desktop Environments... if all those man hours were spent on a unified system, Linux would be a force to be reckoned with... instead they spend their time in gridlock, re-implementing each others code because it doesn't use the correct license, or they don't like that something has too much white space, or some other list of silly reasons.

I agree that too many options is a problem.

IMO, that is an inevitable consequence of anyone being able to modify the code and then release it as a new distro (and not having to rely on income from sales to prop them up).
Try doing that with MS or Apple code and see how long you'll stay out of prison.

The current state of play is based on history.
In the 80's, there were other PC/software companies and they lost market share and eventually went out of business (for whatever reason).
Arguably, if MS hadn't entrenched itself in business and Apple hadn't entrenched themselves in the media/graphics sector, they might both have been wiped out by something else.

It wasn't that long ago that people would have laughed at you, if you had said that RIM was doomed.

That's also what keeps Apple and Microsoft from worrying that any significant number of users will abandon their products for Linux.

Apple users are fashionistas (with the possible exception of media developers).
IMO, MS was dreaming when they thought that all iPad users would throw their tablets away and swap to Surfaces.
I also suspect that a large number of Android users hate Apple and MS (no Surface sales to them either)

MS currently has a lock on the Enterprise market.
If they keep annoying business with "consumer fluff" and onerous and complicated licensing, they might find customers actively looking for alternatives.

It was the onerous and complicated licensing restriction on UNIX that lead to GNU and Linux.
If the UNIX owners hadn't been so obtuse, we may have all ended up running UNIX PCs today.

BTW, I use Windows for ~96% of my computing (W7= ~95%, XP =~1%, Linux Mint = ~4%).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
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