Why they designed Windows 8 the way they did

[Coke Robot]

Eight cents says the modern will win over the older familiar, as has been the trend since the dawn of man.

 

[Ray8]

Eight cents says the modern will win over the older familiar, as has been the trend since the dawn of man.

Maybe not:

MediaCom Edinburgh >> Does new technology always win?

War and Technology - FPRI

Also, barely anything created today is new, it's just a refinement of what has been in use for a very long time.

For example, cooking is one of my favourite activities and I still prefer to cook on a camp fire than in an oven. Since the dawn of man, that's how it's been done. Some think that you can actually cook with a microwave oven.

I'll bet seven (a good number in both Chinese and Western cultures) cents that Microsoft will capitulate and revise Windows 8 to accommodate many of the gripes.

 

[Coke Robot]

Eight cents says the modern will win over the older familiar, as has been the trend since the dawn of man.

Maybe not:

MediaCom Edinburgh >> Does new technology always win?

War and Technology - FPRI

Also, barely anything created today is new, it's just a refinement of what has been in use for a very long time.

For example, cooking is one of my favourite activities and I still prefer to cook on a camp fire than in an oven. Since the dawn of man, that's how it's been done. Some think that you can actually cook with a microwave oven.

I'll bet seven (a good number in both Chinese and Western cultures) cents that Microsoft will capitulate and revise Windows 8 to accommodate many of the gripes.

Oh Lordy, can we call it a rest on this, as this can LITERALLY go on for months and months and months and months....

:huh:

 

[Ray8]

You started it.

 

[Tanzanos]

Cars have a start switch that is used only to start and shut down the engine. Should we get rid of it simply because people use it only once or twice a day? Yeah let's get rid of it and leave the cars engine running on idle! DEAR ME! The people who designed METRO must have been licking toads!

 

[gazz9496]

I just don't know how one could use touch on a desktop, effectively anyway. I have a dual monitor setup and sit much more than an arm's length from them, so if I tried to use touch, I'd be forever hunched over my desk. Maybe the idea is to cause a whole new generation of medical ailments that need treatment?

that is a problem and one myself and coke robot have beaten to death and then some, we don't agree with each other on touch in many respects but that's the thing i do have touch just not for the desktop, i have a tv attachment that cost just under 2k when i bought it, turns a 32" tv into a touch screen but i have a mount for it as well.

the issue with the desktop we went over was the cost to a desktop user to make it usable for extended periods, which in short just means changing your entire desktop environment to suit it and the cost isn't easy to quantify with so little choice of monitors and desks that can make it worth while.

i understand his point of view and respect it i just don't share it.

 

[gazz9496]

Eight cents says the modern will win over the older familiar, as has been the trend since the dawn of man.

only if the modern is actually an improvment for the majority, that's also been the case since the dawn of human kind.

new doesn't always mean better, cars can be used in this example quite well, many cars that are now 10+ years old have features that cars today still don't have below a certain price point, yet those cars cost less at the time than some of these cars do now.
to get those nice little extra's on a new car ends up costing a lot.

which isn't such a bad idea now that i think of it, i'll actually pay an extra £25 for an extra in windows 8 that lets me resize apps and open metro on any screen...your move microsoft.

 

[webtax]

I can see people adapting to the new start screen, and the different apps, but there's something that still itches me about win8.. the task bar dicotomy. This, when talking about non-techsavvy people, i mean i still struggle with some older folks that get confused with browser tabs and application's task bar.. i don't even want to think having to explain to them this extra layer that microsoft added .

 

[Max Peck]

I can see people adapting to the new start screen, and the different apps, but there's something that still itches me about win8.. the task bar dicotomy. This, when talking about non-techsavvy people, i mean i still struggle with some older folks that get confused with browser tabs and application's task bar.. i don't even want to think having to explain to them this extra layer that microsoft added .

My best friend just bought a new laptop for his mother a week or so ago. It came pre-loaded with Windows 8. His first statement to me was that Win8 was "horrible". It took him and his mother a long time to just get the system into a state where she could run things the way she already knew how to do it on her older machine.

To folks like myself, it's just a simple matter of clicking on "desktop" and going from there. However to a user who has learned how to use the desktop front-end (particularly a non-techie which comprises probably 98% of the users out there) it's turning into a nightmare. Your average user should not have to go through this. Those of us on this board can get some fun out of playing with it and arguing its relative merits or lack-of-same but real people out there are going to be confused as hell.

There's nothing particularly wrong with the quality of Win8 per-se but Microsoft is going to alienate a tremendously large section of their installed base with such a large paradigm shift. OS/X may pick up some customers as a result of this.

-Max

 

[Ray8]

That's why I maintain that Microsoft should have made the traditional and new available equally. That way those who are used to the traditional interface would be happy from the get go and have time to investigate and learn the new interface, and take their time in deciding whether they liked it or not.

The way some defend the opposite view is akin to the old saying: 'The beatings will continue until morale improves.'

 

[Mystere]

I am sensing a pattern here. Everyone that claims that Windows 8 is a "nightmare" eventually admits that it's a nightmare because they're trying to turn it into Windows 7. It's not Windows 7. Yes, it will be a nightmare if you refuse to accept Windows 8 for what it is and are constantly trying to make it Windows 7.

So if you want Windows 7, use Windows 7. If you want Windows 8, use Windows 8. Don't try to make Windows 8 into Windows 7 or you will just give yourself headaches.

 

[Tanzanos]

Win 8 I fear will be like the C5 was to Sinclair and rightly so! METRO does not belong in PCs and MS has made a very big mistake if it thinks that a smartphone OS can be used on PCs. Going from any previous windows to win 8 is not an upgrade but a downgrade. I will stick with 7 until they stop supporting it and even beyond that unless MS comes up with a proper PC OS like all windows bar this HORRID win8!

 

[Chrono]

I can see people adapting to the new start screen, and the different apps, but there's something that still itches me about win8.. the task bar dicotomy. This, when talking about non-techsavvy people, i mean i still struggle with some older folks that get confused with browser tabs and application's task bar.. i don't even want to think having to explain to them this extra layer that microsoft added .

My best friend just bought a new laptop for his mother a week or so ago. It came pre-loaded with Windows 8. His first statement to me was that Win8 was "horrible". It took him and his mother a long time to just get the system into a state where she could run things the way she already knew how to do it on her older machine.

To folks like myself, it's just a simple matter of clicking on "desktop" and going from there. However to a user who has learned how to use the desktop front-end (particularly a non-techie which comprises probably 98% of the users out there) it's turning into a nightmare. Your average user should not have to go through this. Those of us on this board can get some fun out of playing with it and arguing its relative merits or lack-of-same but real people out there are going to be confused as hell.

There's nothing particularly wrong with the quality of Win8 per-se but Microsoft is going to alienate a tremendously large section of their installed base with such a large paradigm shift. OS/X may pick up some customers as a result of this.

-Max

Which is exactly why MS should have included a tutorial vid/mode like they have in the past with XP and I believe Win 95. Why they didn't this time, I have no idea, since it's actually needed more so than ever before.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I am sensing a pattern here. Everyone that claims that Windows 8 is a "nightmare" eventually admits that it's a nightmare because they're trying to turn it into Windows 7. It's not Windows 7. Yes, it will be a nightmare if you refuse to accept Windows 8 for what it is and are constantly trying to make it Windows 7.

So if you want Windows 7, use Windows 7. If you want Windows 8, use Windows 8. Don't try to make Windows 8 into Windows 7 or you will just give yourself headaches.

Right on! :thumbup:

 

[Ray8]

I am sensing a pattern here. Everyone that claims that Windows 8 is a "nightmare" eventually admits that it's a nightmare because they're trying to turn it into Windows 7. It's not Windows 7. Yes, it will be a nightmare if you refuse to accept Windows 8 for what it is and are constantly trying to make it Windows 7.

So if you want Windows 7, use Windows 7. If you want Windows 8, use Windows 8. Don't try to make Windows 8 into Windows 7 or you will just give yourself headaches.

Well, it is fundamentally still a Windows 7 OS, with the desktop partly hobbled. If it's not, then why do so many of the icons take one directly to the desktop and not to a Modern interface like say IE does? Take away the entire desktop and, in it's current form, Windows 8 would truly be a nightmare and usurp Vista's crown (though I never really had any issues with Vista).

The Modern interface is flat and linear; whereas, Microsoft effectively touts it as being multi-dimensional. It isn't, it's rigid and uncompromising. This forum isn't populated by idiots and people who are deliberately trying to bag Windows 8. The comments are legitimate and relevant and maybe, just maybe, Microsoft might read some and take note.

This forum isn't the only place raising the very same complaints. Maybe those that are so vigorously defending Windows 8, should take some time off to better contemplate what is being said.

 

[Chrono]

Metro in its current form is not designed to replace the Desktop. It is designed to supplement the desktop. So, yes, Metro would suck if they removed the desktop right now. So I don't see why this is used as an argument.

 

[Ray8]

Here is a very good overview of why Windows 8 does have issues: Early thoughts and gripes with Windows 8 – Blog – ABC Technology and Games (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Mystere]

Here is a very good overview of why Windows 8 does have issues: Early thoughts and gripes with Windows 8 – Blog – ABC Technology and Games (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That's a terrible article.

First, most of his criticism is based on short term problems. Compatibility issues, Lack of drivers, and lack of mature Metro apps. Those go away with time. Developer release updates to make apps compatible, hardware vendors release new drivers, or people buy new hardware that is supported, and developers write and improve Metro apps.

The compatibility issue happens with all new OS versions. It happened with 7. It happened with Vista. It happened with XP (and it happened again with XP SP2), etc.. etc.. This is a fundamental thing that happens with new OS versions and it's not likely to change any time in the future.

The reason for compatibility problems is two-fold. First, lazy app writers rely on undocumented side effects that change in a new version, or they do things that are against the documentation but seem to work. These tend to break in new versions. Then there are deprecated functions, which typically work for several versions after deprecation, but eventually the OS drops support and then older apps that use them stop working. Example: 16 bit apps.

Then of course there is his complaint that "you can't buy Windows 8 in Australia". This is stupid in several ways. First, it's not just Australia.. the same is true everywhere. Second, the System Builder licensing is available in Australia, same is it is everywhere. Someone was just confused, and it appears to have blown out of proportion into a full fledged "MS is picking on Australia" rant that isn't true.

In any event, the article is full of misinformation, bad information, and just plain old whining about things that have been true of all versions of windows.

 

[Ray8]

There's a lot more to what is said in the article than a few bits of cherry picking. Failure to admit that others might be right is not a good look.

 

[Mystere]

Three quarters of the article is covering the topics I mentioned. I got bored and didn't finish the rest of it. If three quarters of the article is terrible, I doubt the rest is much better.