Will you upgrade? That is the question...

[echrada]

Won't upgrade this laptop or my PC but will be buying a Surface Pro when it becomes available.

 

[XFactor]

Win8 Tablet format

The overwhelming reason that IT pros are really down on Windows 8 is that it's hard for us to imagine any use of Metro in the business workplace that would make users more productive and efficient.

It's not a compelling upgrade to me in any fashion, and it's certainly not something where i have found reasons to deploy it at work.

From my limited experience with Win8 it seems to me it's like the tablet version of Win7, with a few performance tweaks. So in a manner of speaking, Microsoft are offering two versions of Win7 ... desktop and tablet.

From this point of view I think Mystere's points are valid.

But for someone like me who only uses desktops, at this point I can't really see enough benefits to make me want to buy it. So if I were forced to make a decision right now, I'd have to vote no, I wouldn't install it.

 

[XFactor]

My Macbook Pro didn't come with the disc. I bought it separately.

I know this forum is for Win8 discussion, so I hope I'm not out of line, but I couldn't help noticing your comment. I was not aware that Mac sold installation discs? I thought you could only buy it pre-installed?

 

[Mystere]

I was not aware that Mac sold installation discs? I thought you could only buy it pre-installed?

How do you think people upgrade to the next version?

 

[XFactor]

Shut down your computer by pressing the physical power button on your computer, that's all it takes.

It should be easy to find in the UI, don't you think? Fundamental features should be easily discoverable. Expecting people to know Ctrl+Alt+Delete to use the latest version of Windows represents major fail.

Having used computers for so long, it would never occur to me that the "Power" button in a "Settings" menu controls the power as opposed to actual "settings" related to power. I wouldn't even look in "Settings" when searching for the power button. So many of these design choices are completely inexplicable.

Log off instead of shutting down? Ctrl-alt-del, then Sign Out. How difficult is that? This is exactly the same as it worked in Windows 7 and XP before that.

Oh, come on. That was one of the things the Start Menu was actually useful for. Most people don't use Ctrl+Alt+Delete.

on all your comments. One small point though re:

I don't even know if the power button does an orderly shutdown on any of my computers. The last time I checked it was a few years ago, and a momentary press did nothing, while a 4-second press did a hard restart. It would be fine with me if it still worked like that, because I never, ever use it to power down.

Physical power button operation as described by Mystere has always worked for me from Win98 thro to Win7. That is: Quick push = normal shut down. Long push = forced shut down.

 

[XFactor]

I was not aware that Mac sold installation discs? I thought you could only buy it pre-installed?

How do you think people upgrade to the next version?

I don't really know anything about Mac, except hearsay. So the only discs are upgrades, not stand alone installation?

 

[TerryE]

Just for grins I'm tossing around the idea of running a Mac OS X in a VM (VMware Workstation) on Win7 x64 (AMD processor). Has anyone here done this, and if so, what was your experience? (Yes, I know it's not supported. This is for demonstration/informational purposes only.)

(Quick edit: not trying to stray off-topic here! Sorry!)

 

[AC]

My Macbook Pro didn't come with the disc. I bought it separately.

I know this forum is for Win8 discussion, so I hope I'm not out of line, but I couldn't help noticing your comment. I was not aware that Mac sold installation discs? I thought you could only buy it pre-installed?

There are no upgrade discs. All are the same, except Server. You put in the disc and install. That's it. OS X does come preinstalled on Macs, but the discs are to upgrade to newer versions. But you can do a clean install with it as well.

 

[XFactor]

There are no upgrade discs. All are the same, except Server. You put in the disc and install. That's it. OS X does come preinstalled on Macs, but the discs are to upgrade to newer versions. But you can do a clean install with it as well.

So let me see if I've I'm reading you right. This means you can buy a stand alone installation disc for a full version of Mac OS X and install it on your home built PC?

 

[Coke Robot]

There are no upgrade discs. All are the same, except Server. You put in the disc and install. That's it. OS X does come preinstalled on Macs, but the discs are to upgrade to newer versions. But you can do a clean install with it as well.

So let me see if I've I'm reading you right. This means you can buy a stand alone installation disc for a full version of Mac OX X and install it on your home built PC?

I once looked into that and no, not unless you have the required Intel hardware. You can't simply take the mac os disk and install it on a PC. You technically can, as those are called hackintoshes that use a modified image of the mac os to make it install on non-apple Kremlin Big Brother approved hardware.

 

[XFactor]

SSDs and defrag

As a newbie to this forum I couldn't help noticing there has been a lot of discussion re SSD hard drives in this thread, which seems a bit odd relative to the thread title?

Anyway, it has made for very interesting reading. On my PC I have a 50GB SSD for my OS, and a 1TB standard HD for storage.

I never even thought about whether you should or shouldn't defrag an SSD hard drive, because when I bought it about 18 months ago, I was told by the vendor that I should just treat it like a normal HD. With that in mind I've had defrag set to auto defrag once a week ever since I bought it.

I hope I haven't done any damage, but it seems to run pretty much the same as when I first installed it.

Does anyone know of any benchmarks to establish definitively whether defrag helps or hinders speed wise?

 

[XFactor]

So let me see if I've I'm reading you right. This means you can buy a stand alone installation disc for a full version of Mac OS X and install it on your home built PC?

I once looked into that and no, not unless you have the required Intel hardware. You can't simply take the mac os disk and install it on a PC. You technically can, as those are called hackintoshes that use a modified image of the mac os to make it install on non-apple Kremlin Big Brother approved hardware.

Thank you for that input, most interesting. This is a very wide reaching forum.

One question. How would you know what Intel hardware to buy, or does Intel specify it works for Mac on their web site data?

 

[AC]

So let me see if I've I'm reading you right. This means you can buy a stand alone installation disc for a full version of Mac OS X and install it on your home built PC?

I once looked into that and no, not unless you have the required Intel hardware. You can't simply take the mac os disk and install it on a PC. You technically can, as those are called hackintoshes that use a modified image of the mac os to make it install on non-apple Kremlin Big Brother approved hardware.

Thank you for that input, most interesting. This is a very wide reaching forum.

One question. How would you know what Intel hardware to buy, or does Intel specify it works for Mac on their web site data?

Basically, if you have decent hardware (Intel Core 2 Duo and up), it is relatively easy to install OS X on a PC without using some cracked version of it.
Bob Roche - YouTube this guy does alot of Mac stuff on PC

 

[pparks1]

Just for grins I'm tossing around the idea of running a Mac OS X in a VM (VMware Workstation) on Win7 x64 (AMD processor). Has anyone here done this, and if so, what was your experience? (Yes, I know it's not supported. This is for demonstration/informational purposes only.)

(Quick edit: not trying to stray off-topic here! Sorry!)

The AMD processor will be an issue without a hack. And all experience with virtualizing OSX leads to an abysmally slow VM. Usually in the ballpark of 5+ minutes to book.

 

[Phone Man]

As a newbie to this forum I couldn't help noticing there has been a lot of discussion re SSD hard drives in this thread, which seems a bit odd relative to the thread title?

Anyway, it has made for very interesting reading. On my PC I have a 50GB SSD for my OS, and a 1TB standard HD for storage.

I never even thought about whether you should or shouldn't defrag an SSD hard drive, because when I bought it about 18 months ago, I was told by the vendor that I should just treat it like a normal HD. With that in mind I've had defrag set to auto defrag once a week ever since I bought it.

I hope I haven't done any damage, but it seems to run pretty much the same as when I first installed it.

Does anyone know of any benchmarks to establish definitively whether defrag helps or hinders speed wise?

Read my post# 104 in this thread. Download and read the PDF I linked. Normal defrag utilities are designed for HDD and not SSD. Most newer SSD have their own optimizing software called Garbage Collection to take care of the SSD.

This thread has covered 3 different subjects so far and 2 are off topic (SSD defrag and now Apple OS) and one poster has been banned. Most interesting thread on this forum.

Jim

 

[XFactor]

Read my post# 104 in this thread. Download and read the PDF I linked. Normal defrag utilities are designed for HDD and not SSD. Most newer SSD have their own optimizing software called Garbage Collection to take care of the SSD.

This thread has covered 3 different subjects so far and 2 are off topic (SSD defrag and now Apple OS) and one poster has been banned. Most interesting thread on this forum.

Jim

Thank you for your input and the reference to your post. I'm already learning from this forum, but weirdly enough more about other general topics than Win8.

The article you referred me to was most informative. I presume Diskkeeper is a software program designed to defrag SSDs the correct way? Would that be fair to say?

 

[FSeal]

Ack.. poor Poppa Bear. Probably had a bit too much of the Fosters before posting (I've don't that, it's never a good thing)

Frankly I'll have to be upgrading, not sure when or how deeply (I have a lot of machines to care for). But really there is no choice.

I would actually be considering jumping to Mac myself after what.. 25? 30? years of Microsoft loyalty. But I can't stomach Apples legal "war" and I too would really miss building my own systems. And though I use Linux daily, it's just SO not even on the radar for anything I do personally. Chrome OS's "everything is the cloud" mantra is completely dead on arrival (for me). So what's left? Hanging my head and saying "Yes Sir" to Microsoft. Something I've never once felt like I had to do before.

Really feel like I'm being dragged around by the nose on this one and that not something I take to at all.

 

[TerryE]

The AMD processor will be an issue without a hack. And all experience with virtualizing OSX leads to an abysmally slow VM. Usually in the ballpark of 5+ minutes to book.

In other words, don't waste my time ... ... thanks for the feedback.

 

[Dave76]

But this a forum where we talk about Windows 8 on the desktop.

Actually this is a "Windows 8 Forum", and all aspects of Windows 8 including laptops and tablets/slates are acceptable.

General observations.
I hope everyone realizes that it is not possible for anyone to make an OS that is exactly what each individual wants. There are in the neighborhood of 1 billion people using Windows OSs.

There are ways to customize all Windows OSs, if the customization you desire is not available then there are third party options.
And, of coarse, the option to use any OS you prefer.

So we all have choices, including letting your opinion be known, and everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[crawfish]

But this a forum where we talk about Windows 8 on the desktop.

Actually this is a "Windows 8 Forum", and all aspects of Windows 8 including laptops and tablets/slates are acceptable.

Actually, we've been talking quite specifically about Windows 8 on the desktop in this thread, and most threads in this forum have been concerned with the Windows 8 previews running on desktops. I don't draw a distinction between desktops and laptops unless it factors into the discussion somehow, and it doesn't in this case. The full exchange, which you clipped, was:

The reason for this is that Windows 8 is targeted at tablets and phones, and those are primarily shutdown via hardware buttons.

But this a forum where we talk about Windows 8 on the desktop. I'm not conceding anything to humor Microsoft's desperation at losing the mobile market.

I was saying that I won't accept a compromised desktop OS to humor Microsoft's pursuit of the mobile market, and I am far from alone in that sentiment. BTW, there is a forum here called "Tablet and Touch" where I presume "tablets/slates" discussions take place, so even if I had been trying to shoo away such discussions as your clipping what I said out of context would seem to suggest (which I wasn't), there would indeed be a better place here to talk about those things.

General observations.
I hope everyone realizes that it is not possible for anyone to make an OS that is exactly what each individual wants. There are in the neighborhood of 1 billion people using Windows OSs.

There are ways to customize all Windows OSs, if the customization you desire is not available then there are third party options.
And, of coarse, the option to use any OS you prefer.

So we all have choices, including letting your opinion be known, and everyone is entitled to their own.

Yes, I think all that goes without saying. I was expressing my opinion when I described why I think certain design choices are bad. I was relating my experience when I talked about having no interest in certain third party options that were suggested. I'm not aware anyone has said you must use a certain OS; of course you have the option to use any OS you prefer. I'm not aware anyone has tried to limit anyone's choices WRT expressing opinions.