Windows Blue - small look at leaked build 9364

[video=youtube;-OPCW6ozaM0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-OPCW6ozaM0#![/video]

Leaked Windows Blue build 9364 reveals multiple Live Tile sizes, same-width side-by-side apps

Notable adjustments include larger and smaller Live Tiles, enabling a bit more Start screen customization, along with an updated side-by-side app view, which boosts multitasking efficiency by displaying two applications with matching width. Other additions include a Play option under the Devices panel, a screenshot button on the Share sidebar, and Internet Explorer 11, which comes packaged with the new OS.

also saw even better skydrive integration. still a work in progress as they use a number of placeholders.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

What was it? "Oh! I forgot my prototype iPhone at the bar/pub last night". Or something of that nature.

 

[Coke Robot]

What was it? "Oh! I forgot my prototype iPhone at the bar/pub last night". Or something of that nature.

Like two, three times in a row....

 

[vrosa]

I wonder why "Windows Sidebar" folder is hidden inside "Programs Files" in both leaked builds.

:shock:

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Bringing back Gadgets to the desktop Would be a good idea (assuming the desktop stays).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

That would seem VERY odd if they did considering the live tiles have replaced most of the purpose of the gadgets. The larger tile size in the leaked builds seem to point that there is a possible potential of having music player apps with playback controls right on the tile.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Live tiles are no good if you are using desktop apps most of the time -- but having gadgets on a type of sidebar would work.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

Considering the type of gadgets there were and the lack of development for them, there isn't much to really justify bringing something that was killed out in the Windows 8 platform due to something of more potential. The only thing I can see as a gadget that isn't a live tile or can't work well as a live tile is a system monitoring gadget. But even then, just shrink down Task Manager in Windows 8, keep it pinned on top if you'd like, and you have a system monitor gadget.

Other things that were a gadget are now within certain apps. A currency converter is in the Finance app. RSS feeds are in the News app. So on and so forth.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Gadgets were ok per say, but resource hogs and not secure. I know nothing on this planet is secure, but live tiles have got to be better. Less resources too. So far as the desktop is concerned, they eliminated the sidebar in 7 so one could place gadgets anywhere. But, if windowing, the desktop gets crowded. Of course depending on monitor size.

The desktop was good for what it was and I feel MS and others are looking and aiming at something better.

Multi-paning to me would be sweet to make up for windowing. However many panes one wants to configure. Not only that, but to save this configuration or multiple configurations for future use. This would be the "new desktop".

Let's say I want to estimate a construction project. I need to open a blueprint in PDF, an Excel workbook, a calculator, a browser, an estimating reference guide, and a stock ticker. I'd configure all these, use them, and save for later use. When I want to use it again, this "desktop" with all the relating programs would all open up and be ready to use again. All this could be configured with multiple monitors. Perhaps the Start Screen on one also.

Then I want to do some translating. I set up the original and as many panes for whatever program I want to translate to. Perhaps a stock ticker included. Another "desktop" I can save for future use.

Meanwhile back on the Start Screen I'm using a live tile to play some music from my library. The Windows Mail live tile is notifying me of emails coming in. Or Spype or similar app notifying me of phone calls, etc. It doesn't have to be a MS service or app. If I don't want to be bothered I can turn notifications off.

Sound far fetched? I think we're just getting started with computerization. The technology really isn't that old and hasn't matured by far.

 

[vrosa]

BUILD 9374 has leaked:

http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/24059-windows-8-1-build-9374-x86-leaked.html#post223621

 

[Nemix]

Firefox 20 and 21 beta's session manager crashes like mad with build 9369 (x64), Chrome works fine though.

 

[jimbo45]

Firefox 20 and 21 beta's session manager crashes like mad with build 9369 (x64), Chrome works fine though.

Hi there
Using Beta software on even PRE-BETA software seems a bit silly to me. With Ms's unofficial pre-releases the best you can hope for is that standard Ms applications work on it - and even that isn't guaranteed. Anything else that runs should be considered purely a bonus.

In any case I can't really see the advantages in using any other browser in the up coming releases since IE11 is now standard in these builds - and before final we might even get IE12. IE11 now has proper HTLM 5 and all the other stuff for secure websites -- Bye Bye Flash !!!. (You can still view flash content though by enabling the "Compatibily mode" in IE 11).

Current W8 uses IE 10 BTW not IE 11 which is now in all the latest leaked builds.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Nemix]

LOL you have to try to be smart about everything correct?

FYI, we had to use Start8 v1.14 beta with build 9364 for Start8 to work correctly with the first leaked Windows Blue preview.

Maybe I should have been more careful with my wording, I used the official Firefox 20 with build 9369 and session manager kept crashing I then gave Firefox 21 beta to see if it's any better but session manager still crashes a lot.

There's no harm in running beta on beta since it's all for testing purposes anyway, how do you think software developers start off on creating compatible software for Windows 8.1?

 

[jimbo45]

LOL you have to try to be smart about everything correct?

FYI, we had to use Start8 v1.14 beta with build 9364 for Start8 to work correctly with the first leaked Windows Blue preview.

Maybe I should have been more careful with my wording, I used the official Firefox 20 with build 9369 and session manager kept crashing I then gave Firefox 21 beta to see if it's any better but session manager still crashes a lot.

There's no harm in running beta on beta since it's all for testing purposes anyway, how do you think software developers start off on creating compatible software for Windows 8.1?

Hi there
Of course there isn't any harm -- although what I meant was that if you run essentially beta software ON a beta platform you are more likely to encounter errors -- of course people have to test stuff however what some do in general is to take say a stable application and test THAT on a new platform and when that's working OK THEN try the update. That way people will know whether they have to get an update to run your application or can run what they already have.

The reason is also fairly straight forward -- If your Beta application fails -- is the defect in the Beta software, the beta platform or Both.

Debugging and fixing is infinitely more complex in this type of scenario. --That's all the purpose of the post was to say. Time is a valuable resource and if you can save some getting a new product out of the door -- IMO it's worth it.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[freeeekyyy]

How is MSE so much better in Windows 8 than Windows 7 and if so, why can't it be just as good in Windows 7?

Hi Ray8 -- you've mis-understood -- hope you aren't getting dyslexic like cokie.

MSE is for W7 NOT W8 .

The reason security is so much better in W8 is that it's actually designed as part of the kernel -- not as a separate bolt on as it is in W7.

It's easier to protect components that are part of the kernel itself than protecting what is just another "Application program".

Most OS's run in two modes "Protected" and "application" mode. Tasks within the kernel can only run in "privilege mode" and it's almost (although not impossible) for a hacker to launch an external program that changes the privilege level.

MSE and W7 security packages run in "Application" mode -- however they exploit some tricks to change their privilege level so they can make use of internal kernel services.

W8 knows even if these tricks are exploited that they are external modules and therefore just ignore any privilege level code or calls.

(I've over simplified the actual process but it should suffice as to what's going on -- a detailed explanation on designing OS's can easily be found all over the web if you are interested).

Cheers
jimbo

User/kernel mode isn't new to windows 8. It's been a fundamental element of the NT kernel since it was created 20 years ago.

 

[jimbo45]

How is MSE so much better in Windows 8 than Windows 7 and if so, why can't it be just as good in Windows 7?

Hi Ray8 -- you've mis-understood -- hope you aren't getting dyslexic like cokie.

MSE is for W7 NOT W8 .

The reason security is so much better in W8 is that it's actually designed as part of the kernel -- not as a separate bolt on as it is in W7.

It's easier to protect components that are part of the kernel itself than protecting what is just another "Application program".

Most OS's run in two modes "Protected" and "application" mode. Tasks within the kernel can only run in "privilege mode" and it's almost (although not impossible) for a hacker to launch an external program that changes the privilege level.

MSE and W7 security packages run in "Application" mode -- however they exploit some tricks to change their privilege level so they can make use of internal kernel services.

W8 knows even if these tricks are exploited that they are external modules and therefore just ignore any privilege level code or calls.

(I've over simplified the actual process but it should suffice as to what's going on -- a detailed explanation on designing OS's can easily be found all over the web if you are interested).

Cheers
jimbo

User/kernel mode isn't new to windows 8. It's been a fundamental element of the NT kernel since it was created 20 years ago.

Hi there
It's even older than that -- IBM mainframe systems such as MVS had this around 1970 -- although they implemented it also with the aid of hardware --there was an area in Protected Memory in the Hardware (a bit like the BIOS in a PC) called a PSW (Program status word) which if Bit 15 (I think --so long ago I can't remember) was set to a '1' the code was operating in "Supervisor or Privilege" state and if '0' was in normal application mode. A privileged part of the Supervisor Nucleus (The kernel equivalent in today's OS'es) would issue what was known as an SVC (supervisor call) which would set the PSW status to a 1 or 0 depending on whether application mode or privileged mode was required.

However the point of the post was to say that the security modules in W7 were essentially called by an Application level program while in W8 the security was embedded into the kernel.

The logic of what the program did to defend against viruses was essentially the same --MSE in W7 and Windows defender in W8 but the actual mechanics of how the program operated were very different in the two OS'es.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[freeeekyyy]

Hi Ray8 -- you've mis-understood -- hope you aren't getting dyslexic like cokie.

MSE is for W7 NOT W8 .

The reason security is so much better in W8 is that it's actually designed as part of the kernel -- not as a separate bolt on as it is in W7.

It's easier to protect components that are part of the kernel itself than protecting what is just another "Application program".

Most OS's run in two modes "Protected" and "application" mode. Tasks within the kernel can only run in "privilege mode" and it's almost (although not impossible) for a hacker to launch an external program that changes the privilege level.

MSE and W7 security packages run in "Application" mode -- however they exploit some tricks to change their privilege level so they can make use of internal kernel services.

W8 knows even if these tricks are exploited that they are external modules and therefore just ignore any privilege level code or calls.

(I've over simplified the actual process but it should suffice as to what's going on -- a detailed explanation on designing OS's can easily be found all over the web if you are interested).

Cheers
jimbo

User/kernel mode isn't new to windows 8. It's been a fundamental element of the NT kernel since it was created 20 years ago.

Hi there
It's even older than that -- IBM mainframe systems such as MVS had this around 1970 -- although they implemented it also with the aid of hardware --there was an area in Protected Memory in the Hardware (a bit like the BIOS in a PC) called a PSW (Program status word) which if Bit 15 (I think --so long ago I can't remember) was set to a '1' the code was operating in "Supervisor or Privilege" state and if '0' was in normal application mode. A privileged part of the Supervisor Nucleus (The kernel equivalent in today's OS'es) would issue what was known as an SVC (supervisor call) which would set the PSW status to a 1 or 0 depending on whether application mode or privileged mode was required.

However the point of the post was to say that the security modules in W7 were essentially called by an Application level program while in W8 the security was embedded into the kernel.

The logic of what the program did to defend against viruses was essentially the same --MSE in W7 and Windows defender in W8 but the actual mechanics of how the program operated were very different in the two OS'es.

Cheers
jimbo

Yes, I'm aware the concept goes back much further than that. I was referring specifically to Windows. I guess I misunderstood your point. Now that I get it, I'm still not sure it's a good idea to have an application's functionality embedded into the kernel, but Microsoft apparently sees things otherwise, and so long as it doesn't affect system stability (which it apparently doesn't) I guess it's not that big of a deal.