Windows 8 is a few steps backwards

[mart4494]

I visit Apple websites all the time, they have just as many problems as Windows, it's not all plain sailing for them either.

My point here is that Apple never plays nice and will just drop people off, and yet they are the most loved company on the planet, go figure.

- they (Apple) are only interested in customer loyalty if it produces $$'s. Remember the iPhone and the company suggestion that you were holding it wrong - hence the dropped calls. Just how are you meant to hold a phone then?

Followed by some of the iPad2 antennae problems that wouldn't connect to a WPA2-AES network.

Disappointed about Win8 and the Metro UI - yes I am but as I have a good Win7 rig with a SSD which runs solid then there's no reason to look elsewhere simply because I'm not going to adopt Win8 as it stands at the moment. I would look a Linux if it could run the latest Adobe software but go to Apple, no way.

 

[Vertex]

I think the trouble with Microsoft is that it actually tries to play too nice, just like in life if you're too nice people will spit in your face. Microsoft probably should have dropped all their old code years ago, instead of trying to please everyone.
Even now they are still at it trying to please everyone while trying to enter a new market.

You actually think Micro$oft is playing too nice after they removed the old Start Menu and the Start Button? After its clear that Windows 8 is a tablet focused OS that's trying to diss off the traditional Desktop along with its legacy apps? A lot of us Desktop users have been pissed off because this touch-oriented Metro thing being forced on users on this new OS. Microsoft wants market share on the mobile/tablet world so to a sense, they are trying to be like Apple and they probably know, this is not gonna please everyone. So how on Earth would it still appear to you that M$ is trying to please everyone? Perhaps, its true, Apple has got more luck that people actually buy into these iPads and iPhones that are technically not for professional or bussiness use but at least, they have a separation between OSX and iOS.

If M$ were "too nice", they would have given the users a choice to have the old Start Menu and Start Button, or direct access to the Desktop without passing through the Metro screen at startup, very simple things to do but they didnt because they know, those would be a reason for people to ignore the Metro and its apps they they are hoping to be goldmines for paid subsriptions.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Legacy Support

I think the trouble with Microsoft is that it actually tries to play too nice, just like in life if you're too nice people will spit in your face. Microsoft probably should have dropped all their old code years ago, instead of trying to please everyone.

If they had done that, Microsoft's desktop market share would be similar to Apple's desktop market share.

Windows is the biggest player in consumer and business desktops, because of legacy support, not in spite of it.

How many people would upgrade their OS, if they had to replace all of their software at the same time (e.g. MS Office)?

My point here is that Apple never plays nice and will just drop people off, and yet they are the most loved company on the planet, go figure.

They might be the most loved company and the most hated company, simultaneously (e.g. 50-50).
IMO (and anecdotally) most Windows and Linux users don't like Apple.

 

[FSeal]

Apple?

Not likely!!

But I do have several variants of Linux available to me right here and now.

No, I'll be staying with Win 7 on this machine, which has the Win 8 64-bit CP in VirtualBox.

The 32-bit CP, which is running on the old laptop will probably also remain there.

But there's nothing to make me want Win 8 as my main OS, and many reasons for me not to.

Yes but atleast Photoshop and other actually useful programs run on OSX :/ (I use Linux EVERY DAY and unless about 50 major programs are ported to it by the time Windows 8 comes out, it still has little chance of taking over the market left by people fleeing Win8)

 

[mart4494]

Yes but atleast Photoshop and other actually useful programs run on OSX :/ (I use Linux EVERY DAY and unless about 50 major programs are ported to it by the time Windows 8 comes out, it still has little chance of taking over the market left by people fleeing Win8)

I wish some programs could run effectively on Linux especially Adobe but it's not going to happen. No one (although there may be the odd one) is going to flee MS simply because they don't agree with the Metro UI. They will stick with what they've already got.

Remember XP

 

[FSeal]

Yes but atleast Photoshop and other actually useful programs run on OSX :/ (I use Linux EVERY DAY and unless about 50 major programs are ported to it by the time Windows 8 comes out, it still has little chance of taking over the market left by people fleeing Win8)

I wish some programs could run effectively on Linux especially Adobe but it's not going to happen. No one (although there may be the odd one) is going to flee MS simply because they don't agree with the Metro UI. They will stick with what they've already got.

Remember XP

Well that is certainly true in the short term, but eventually we have no choice. Now things may come around for Win 9 or even Win 8 with third party tools, OR it may get worse with Win 9. The forcing of a largely innappropriate UI on the desktop then forcing all apps for that UI to go through the app store is definately an unsettling view into the possible future of Windows for a lot of people.

I also ususally scoff at the "I'm swithing to Mac/Linux" posts all the time, ususaly it's pretty hilarious. I'm not laughing any more (Well still about Linux which I use every day and it's still no replacement for the productivity and versitility of software on windows), but this is serious. It may be that OSX will actually be more Windows like than Windows itself pretty soon. (Assuming Apple doesn't completel iOSify OSX next year as well)

 

[Coke Robot]

The apple comment is silly, a few people have already said that about Windows 8 because it doesn't "respect" the Desktop. Well, hate to break it to you, but according to my distasteful touch of the latest mac os, it does a similar thing to Windows 8 as in the Desktop isn't the only place to do things. There are apps and widgets that for some reason reside out of the Desktop view. It's just sick simply put and makes no logical sense.

Even then, apple has said they will be focusing more on their ipads and idevices that are for iDiots that buy into a modern day communist-capitalistic regime.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
actually run XP or W7 under Linux on a VM . You only need to have say Photoshop or Ms office on it then fine.

Actually also a lot of stuff will run on a Native Linux installation using WINE -- a lot of Ms Office (at least up to version 2007 did) and you could use a product called "Cross over Office" too.

My main issue is that if Metro is the way forward then what about people who have LARGE screens or multi-monitors.

1) You don't want to have to scroll left for 35 KM to reach an application
2) in a "Real World" environment you need to have several windows open concurrently -- different documents / web pages / spread sheets etc.

Single full screen operation is fine for Ipads(Idonwantit) or smart phones / tablets but for the scenario I've outlined --forget Metro -- and this stuff will never see the light of day inside a large organisation

so in the classic terms "... Et Tu Brutus ..." what future for W8 Enterprise.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

Hi there
actually run XP or W7 under Linux on a VM . You only need to have say Photoshop or Ms office on it then fine.

Actually also a lot of stuff will run on a Native Linux installation using WINE -- a lot of Ms Office (at least up to version 2007 did) and you could use a product called "Cross over Office" too.

My main issue is that if Metro is the way forward then what about people who have LARGE screens or multi-monitors.

1) You don't want to have to scroll left for 35 KM to reach an application
2) in a "Real World" environment you need to have several windows open concurrently -- different documents / web pages / spread sheets etc.

Single full screen operation is fine for Ipads(Idonwantit) or smart phones / tablets but for the scenario I've outlined --forget Metro -- and this stuff will never see the light of day inside a large organisation

so in the classic terms "... Et Tu Brutus ..." what future for W8 Enterprise.

Cheers
jimbo

For large monitors and everything in general, there is semantic zoon where in two clicks, you can get to anywhere on your Start Screen.

See, the "real world" and multiple windows open isn't a valid argument. To me, this is how it works.

In 7, if you have multiple windows open and you need to get to say....some program that you need open but don't use often. In said OS, the Desktop would have a bunch of windows open and you open the start menu. Immediately, your focus isn't on those windows anymore but the start menu, clicking on All Programs, and scrolling down and selecting said program. Then, your focus returns to those windows. The same thing happens with the Start Screen. If you need a program you use from time to time, it might be pinned to your Start Screen, maybe the left side of the screen if you don't have many pinned items (which can have about 40 things pinned to it per screen section) or maybe on another section of the screen. So in this situation in 8, you have many windows open on the Desktop, you click on Start from either bottom left or side right of your screen. Then depending where your pinned program is, you can find it more visually and select it, and you're returned to the Desktop.

Maybe, you get distracted by a window that is open in 7, say Media Center and you're watching a video. Yes, you have the advantage of seeing that without shifting around, but honestly, how many times does that EVER happen on a daily "real world" basis?

Also, there is a Desktop, and chances are that many enterprises won't need metro apps UNLESS for tablets, slates, or laptops that access that enterprises network to obtain those corporate apps. The Start Screen would then be used for what I outlined above.

 

[tseven]

The fact is they definitely need to work on it. In my opinion why it feels as if it is going backwards is because of the fact that the desktop user interface has become flat and less legible. Not minimal but flat and less readable. Some of the effects have been made harder to see. It's as if they are trying to make things difficult. I get the fact of removing the start button but the start screen is not a real replacement and is in a different environment where things are for mobile use. The metro philosophy is used in the desktop but in a way that doesn't make things or the user-interface any easier to use. If anything the changes have made things much more difficult to understand or see.

But to be real honest here both Microsoft or Apple are doing things for money. What company isn't? It would be ideal for them to listen to what we want but it's also not realistic that they would even care. Apple didn't hold onto their older base so they were able to start again on a clean state design-wise and coding whereas Windows is holding onto the older base. Also Mac came first so they also probably have a head start design-wise.

After using both a mac and a windows based computer I find mac to be easier to use. When using a program and finding menu items or help issues is much easier. However there are things that make it just as cluttered or confusing as well.

They still have time to change things up I mean the user-interface has been said is always the LAST part they work on so there is still hope but overall the direction that it's been going in makes it feel as if it's going backwards instead of forwards.

 

[whs]

If the "progress' from CP to RP is any indication of things to come, I wonder whether the RTM will work at all on a desktop. This is too bad because I was really a fan of the CP. But now it is difficult to 'think positive'.

 

[Coke Robot]

If the "progress' from CP to RP is any indication of things to come, I wonder whether the RTM will work at all on a desktop. This is too bad because I was really a fan of the CP. But now it is difficult to 'think positive'.

How so?

 

[ilovewindows8]

If the "progress' from CP to RP is any indication of things to come, I wonder whether the RTM will work at all on a desktop. This is too bad because I was really a fan of the CP. But now it is difficult to 'think positive'.

Eh? The RP works way better than the CP did, it's faster and more stable.

 

[whs]

You guys are lucky. I have nothing but trouble in 2 installations. But hope always dies last.

 

[gazz9496]

microsoft should do one thing, make a proper version of windows 8 for the desktop, as is the current version is great for tablets but far from suitable for desktops.

it's pretty obvious almost everyone agrees that the current version is not good enough for desktop computers yet more than good enough for tablets and netbooks, surely that means microsoft have to do just one thing...make the desktop versions for desktop users instead of trying to get them to use some tablet version they really aren't interested in.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there @ coke robot.
The problem isn't SWITCHING between windows -- but when you need to have them OPEN SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Many times I need to have at least two (and usually 4) windows open --for example translating a document from one language to another or comparing several "What if" scenarios using different values on several worksheets in an excel workbook.

That is a more realistic work place scenario -- switching windows is fine but not "In Metro mode" where they are all full screen.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[ilovewindows8]

You guys are lucky. I have nothing but trouble in 2 installations. But hope always dies last.

What kind of troubles are you experiencing?

 

[alphanumeric]

Hi there @ coke robot.
The problem isn't SWITCHING between windows -- but when you need to have them OPEN SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Many times I need to have at least two (and usually 4) windows open --for example translating a document from one language to another or comparing several "What if" scenarios using different values on several worksheets in an excel workbook.

That is a more realistic work place scenario -- switching windows is fine but not "In Metro mode" where they are all full screen.

Cheers
jimbo

I'm with you on this one Jimbo
I have "two" 1280x1024 LCD displays, I can't open two metro apps on one screen let alone try to open two at the same time on separate monitors.

 

[skallal]

There is a split screen option available if you have at least 1336 pixel of horizontal resolution. It allows one Metro app and a desktop app to share the screen. Too bad they can't make it two Metro apps...

 

[Corringdon]

All these comments from you knowledgeable folk about my original thread makes for extremely intreresting reading. However, my point still is that Microsoft appear to be making it difficult for the mouse and keyboard brigade. For the millions of desktop users poking a monitor screen (apart from all the other negative issues with W8) will not instill them with the desire to buy the new OS. Gazz9496 is correct when he suggests Microsoft should bring out a non tablet based version of W8. Until then I'll have to plod along with W7.