Windows 8.1 may make it easier to customize Start scren

Windows 8.1 will add new features to help you customize the Start screen -- at least it allegedly will, based on tidbits from the latest build.

The latest Windows 8.1 build dims the Start screen to focus on a single app tile and offers a wider array of tile sizes, says blog site WinBeta.

Read more at:
Windows 8.1 may make it easier to customize the Start screen | Microsoft - CNET News

 

[Coke Robot]

Hi there
I think the main beef is that if you don't have or want to use a touch screen then the Start screen as is currently set out is a bit of a "Dogs Dinner" -- forget all the Metro stuff for a moment -- for Classic Windows applications --Aka Office, Photoshop / CAD / Visual studio etc etc then a tile seems to be generated for every wretched .EXE file whether it's actually a runnable application or not.

For example just for NERO there are 16 (YES SIXTEEN) of these wretched tiles -- now imagine loads of other applications --you could easily have numbers approaching 100 (yes A HUNDRED).

Anybody with even HALF a pea sized brain could tell you that operating a computer this way - even with touch is just a total load of pure Bovine Scatology. You can with a bit of work tidy this up, and group the applications together -- assuming in this dogs dinner of a mess you even KNOW which ones you generally want to use but it DOES take quite a bit of organising and your typical home user isn't going to bother.

I've done the usual get arounds by custom toolbars, task bar and desktop short cuts but I can assure you it certainly was more than 5 mins work --and I've used every Windows OS since 3.0, some linuxes and even IBM mainframe OS'es in my time so hopefully I do have experience with loads of different GUI's.

The start button and menu is probably an irrelevance IF the start screen could be sensibly sorted out for desktop users -- 100's of those silly tiles isn't going to cut it in any way shape or form.

On the whole I LIKE w8 but the current Start screen --Forget it.

Here's what I mean about Nero tiles after a bog standard DEFAULT install.
You can see what a mess this is just even for this ONE application. Nero tiles are striped through in red.

OK you can say why do I need NERO --probably don't any more or very rarely but that's not the point --I'm trying to show how some perfectly common and standard applications appear when installed on W8 with purely the default choices.

Cheers
jimbo

Now, would this be any different if this were a start menu? Now you'd have 15 things in a folder an average user wouldn't even open to see.

That can be a problem, which is why we unpin. In all honesty, that's a third party problem. Some newer software don't have a bunch of things being put into the Start directory anymore. The problem I do see however is that All Apps and Start use the same directory, which in the start menu is the compacted All Programs list. Which then leads to the issue that most people really don't actually go into All Programs versus the MFU list of start and Taskbar pins. You don't SEE what you have installed, which is part of the reason why the Start Screen was designed in the way it did.

But with Windows 8.1's smaller tile size, 15 small tiles will only occupy about three normal sized tiles worth of screen space. Or you could just unpin if you don't need it.

 

[Coke Robot]

It's different code. They don't have to do anything. If they want to play, there are rules.

View attachment 20766

With apple, you touch it, you die. :shock:

Not really, but this is true.

 

[Coke Robot]

so all software companies need to rewrite installers to make up for the fact that W8 doesn't know what to do with the .exe's? If you install the same Nero on W7 it puts the main launcher icon on the desktop (if the checkbox is left) and it creates a folder in the start menu for everything involved. So which is flawed? the installer or the OS?

Not really a flaw, the thing about the Start Screen is that the directory for the Start pins is the same directory as All Apps, you end up seeing pretty much everything the program installs shortcut wise. This is different than All Programs, where it can easily become a VERY long scrolling details list where you have to expand folder after folder to find certain things. Except with Start, you see the mess, you unpin the mess you don't want, move on with your life. In the start menu, it's more like, see the shortcut in the MFU list, Pin to Taskbar. Or go to the highlighted new program folder in All Programs, find the relevant program shortcut, Pin to Start menu or Pin to Taskbar. Never see that folder again. That part of the UI stops being used.

But really, third party software makers should seriously stop making SO MANY freaking shortcuts to being with. Five .html help files aren't needed. Or with Office even, the Word picture tools shortcut isn't needed. So on and so forth.

Which is why the WinRT apps are nice, they only install ONE thing. The Finance app has an amount of finance tools within it, but it doesn't put those shortcuts on the Start Screen.

 

[turbofish]

Now, would this be any different if this were a start menu?

Easy. Sub folders. By using the same tree structure that Microsoft has for 30 years

 

[turbofish]

Both my wife's iPhone and my androids have know about the need to have folders but Microsoft forgot and decided to throw every executable on one screen. And yet there are still Microsoft lemmings who think it's a great idea.

 

[jimbo45]

So according to this logic, Office 2013 also has an old installer? Because it sure threw up a whole bunch of icons on my start screen. Every executable that comes along with offices 2013 is there. And of course they are mixed in with icons from other applications as well. I have steam icons next to SQL stuff which is next to Office,... Yeah, I could fix them and group them all together in nice little groups but my OCD only can take so much organization before I will give up and avoid the whole mess! Just like the vast majority of windows 8 users out there and one more reason that the start page is a complete joke

unpin them

Hi there (Not @turbofish but primarily directed at mdmd).

You just don't get it do you -- you are just mouthing what seems like a canned response like those poor devils working in those huge Off shored "Call / Service" centres (Aka 21st century slave /sweatshops) in places like Bangalore who have to read from prepared scripts whatever the caller's question is.

HERE AGAIN FOR YOPUR INPUT.

YES I am quite capable of unpinning / re-arranging or playing around every which way with this stuff -- my whole point (I'll even translate it into Icelandic for you if it helps) was to say that for a typical non technical user knowing WHAT to unpin and HOW to know what are the applications they want to run --is the basic problem. Some of these setups just attach every executable (.EXE) file to the start screen as a separate tile and often outside the main application's programs too. You surely can't expect a bog standard user to have to worry about whether the "Installer is compatible". They just either insert a CD / DVD or download an application from the internet and run the install. They shouldn't then need a Doctorate in computer science to be able to sort the whole mess out so they can run their app sensibly.

I don't get fazed too many times but try and understand what the poster is saying -- of course your answer is fine for people like us --but it wasn't about people like us that I was talking about.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[mdmd]

 

[mdmd]

 

[mdmd]

 

[goodintentions]

So according to this logic, Office 2013 also has an old installer? Because it sure threw up a whole bunch of icons on my start screen. Every executable that comes along with offices 2013 is there. And of course they are mixed in with icons from other applications as well. I have steam icons next to SQL stuff which is next to Office,... Yeah, I could fix them and group them all together in nice little groups but my OCD only can take so much organization before I will give up and avoid the whole mess! Just like the vast majority of windows 8 users out there and one more reason that the start page is a complete joke

unpin them

Hi there (Not @turbofish but primarily directed at mdmd).

You just don't get it do you -- you are just mouthing what seems like a canned response like those poor devils working in those huge Off shored "Call / Service" centres (Aka 21st century slave /sweatshops) in places like Bangalore who have to read from prepared scripts whatever the caller's question is.

HERE AGAIN FOR YOPUR INPUT.

YES I am quite capable of unpinning / re-arranging or playing around every which way with this stuff -- my whole point (I'll even translate it into Icelandic for you if it helps) was to say that for a typical non technical user knowing WHAT to unpin and HOW to know what are the applications they want to run --is the basic problem. Some of these setups just attach every executable (.EXE) file to the start screen as a separate tile and often outside the main application's programs too. You surely can't expect a bog standard user to have to worry about whether the "Installer is compatible". They just either insert a CD / DVD or download an application from the internet and run the install. They shouldn't then need a Doctorate in computer science to be able to sort the whole mess out so they can run their app sensibly.

I don't get fazed too many times but try and understand what the poster is saying -- of course your answer is fine for people like us --but it wasn't about people like us that I was talking about.

Cheers
jimbo

I don't agree. Android has been putting an icon on the homescreen of their android devices for years, and users don't seem to mind. Just long press and remove.

 

[symbiont]

I don't agree. Android has been putting an icon on the homescreen of their android devices for years, and users don't seem to mind. Just long press and remove.

One icon, for one program or app that you've installed is fine - how someone can be so obtuse as to see the difference between adding one shortcut and adding 7 - I just don't get. Read what they're saying - they're talking about large applications that might put 5,6,7 tiles on the Start Screen - of which you'd only use 1 or 2 of them to launch what you need to use that program. So the user then has to manually "unpin" each item they don't want there.

Every program installer that I've used in recent years gives me an option to "add a desktop icon". Wouldn't be that hard to update it for adding or not adding tiles. Or heck, when the "desktop is dead!!11!!" they can just replace one with another.

Or at the very least, why can't we CTRL+click multiple tiles and unpin a group at once? Although, still redundant (but this is MS we're talking about).

 

[Coke Robot]

Now, would this be any different if this were a start menu?

Easy. Sub folders. By using the same tree structure that Microsoft has for 30 years

Now would the sub folders be easy to access with touch? And are they even used enough as they once were 30 years ago? Would the newer ways and newer UI features justify keeping that?

 

[Coke Robot]

View attachment 20789

I have no idea what's happening here...

 

[turbofish]

Kind of silly isn't it. You are questioning if subfolders would be easy to access via touch and yet both android and IOS have folders. Besides, I can care less about touch on laptop/desktop /server. Touch is great on tablets and phones. Not so much on anything else. What I really can't figure out is why they put the same touch centric UI on a server. They have taken this one UI on all devices way too far

 

[goodintentions]

^^ Because MS is following the foot step of apple because of apple's huge success in universalising the UI. If you haven't noticed, the newest android jellybean upgrade has also universalized the UI across devices. I hate it. I hate the fact that my android tablet looks like a giant phone. I've always hated the fact that my ipad always looked like a giant iphone, and now my android tablet looks like a giant android phone.

While I agree with you completely, somehow I don't think the majority of people agree with us there. Let's be honest with ourselves, most people are tech illiterate. The success of the iphone, ipod touch, and ipad pretty much proves that most people want the exact same UI across the board. If you go onto android forums, you will find only a few people being annoyed with the new android tablet UI. Everyone else loves the fact that their android tablets now look like giant android phones.

 

[Coke Robot]

Kind of silly isn't it. You are questioning if subfolders would be easy to access via touch and yet both android and IOS have folders. Besides, I can care less about touch on laptop/desktop /server. Touch is great on tablets and phones. Not so much on anything else. What I really can't figure out is why they put the same touch centric UI on a server. They have taken this one UI on all devices way too far

They can be accessed, yes. If you design them a certain way. ios has app groups, where you touch something the size of a regular icon and it shows the folder group. But in Windows, that icon size is about six pixels or some such in a details view, not at all ideal to touch. And touch not being ideal on the desktop is PURELY 100 percent subjective. I find it greater on a desktop than using a mouse. That's me, not you. Subjective.

 

[Coke Robot]

^^ Because MS is following the foot step of apple because of apple's huge success in universalising the UI. If you haven't noticed, the newest android jellybean upgrade has also universalized the UI across devices. I hate it. I hate the fact that my android tablet looks like a giant phone. I've always hated the fact that my ipad always looked like a giant iphone, and now my android tablet looks like a giant android phone.

While I agree with you completely, somehow I don't think the majority of people agree with us there. Let's be honest with ourselves, most people are tech illiterate. The success of the iphone, ipod touch, and ipad pretty much proves that most people want the exact same UI across the board. If you go onto android forums, you will find only a few people being annoyed with the new android tablet UI. Everyone else loves the fact that their android tablets now look like giant android phones.

This isn't something you find with Windows and Windows Phone, similar designed UIs, TOTALLY dissimilar interactions. Windows 8 isn't Windows Phone blown up. Windows Phone is more or less Windows 8 condensed down quite a bit.

I'm more for a similar UI design across different devices, not ONE UI across different devices. How the Xbox functions isn't like Windows 8, how Windows 8 functions isn't at all like Windows Phone.

 

[mdmd]

One icon, for one program or app that you've installed is fine - how someone can be so obtuse as to see the difference between adding one shortcut and adding 7 - I just don't get. Read what they're saying - they're talking about large applications that might put 5,6,7 tiles on the Start Screen - of which you'd only use 1 or 2 of them to launch what you need to use that program. So the user then has to manually "unpin" each item they don't want there.

Every program installer that I've used in recent years gives me an option to "add a desktop icon". Wouldn't be that hard to update it for adding or not adding tiles. Or heck, when the "desktop is dead!!11!!" they can just replace one with another.

 

[mdmd]

 

[symbiont]

One icon, for one program or app that you've installed is fine - how someone can be so obtuse as to see the difference between adding one shortcut and adding 7 - I just don't get. Read what they're saying - they're talking about large applications that might put 5,6,7 tiles on the Start Screen - of which you'd only use 1 or 2 of them to launch what you need to use that program. So the user then has to manually "unpin" each item they don't want there.

Every program installer that I've used in recent years gives me an option to "add a desktop icon". Wouldn't be that hard to update it for adding or not adding tiles. Or heck, when the "desktop is dead!!11!!" they can just replace one with another.

View attachment 20792

Ok I give, you totally lost me as to what your point is with this picture.