Win8 problem with two monitors

[pvc]

I have my spare desktop PC connected to my TV in the living room. I noticed that my Windows screen is larger than the TV screen. The taskbar is half hidden and the red X to close a window is off screen and out of site. I had to go into the NVidia Control Panel and adjust the size for it to fit so I can see the whole screen. This was with the correct resolution for the TV set in Windows. You may have to do something similar if your mouse cursor is going off screen.

My Windows screen is only slightly larger than my TV screen. My mouse cursor goes off screen (way far off screen) when the two monitors are in extend mode. I can drag a window off one monitor and onto the other monitor. I believe that is normal.

 

[alphanumeric]

Yes that is normal, when its off screen on one monitor it actually on the other monitor. If you had them side by side you would see it go from one to the other.

 

[pvc]

Okay, step by step...

Step #1 - Restore to Dell Factory image (only the computer monitor connected).



Step #2 - Plug in TV HDMI cable and turn the TV on. A second monitor is automatically setup in extend mode. I click the Identify button and the TV displays 1 and the computer monitor displays 2.



Step#3 - I change the mode to Duplicate (from extend). My desktop flips to the TV while the start screen and metro apps stay on the computer screen. I click the Identify button and the TV displays 1|2 and the computer monitor displays 1|2.



I have run out of things to try. The damn thing won't work.

The only way to get my desktop back on the computer monitor is to unplug the TV HDMI cable. That work-around is too crude for me to use. I would prefer to go back to my old setup of Video via DVI->HDMI->TV and Audio via SPDIF-Out->Surround Sound.

My old method was cumbersome. But at least I didn't have to plug/unplug devices when I used them.

 

[alphanumeric]

I don't know what is going on with your system. If I switch from extend to duplicate two of my monitors show the exact same thing. The mouse cursor shows on both monitors in the exact same position. If I'm in Metro, it s on both displays. If I switch back to the desktop it mirrors on the second display exactly. My third monitor just goes black with a no signal message. In duplicate I cannot display Metro on one monitor and desktop on the other. As far as I know the video card output sets the monitor number. You can't change that, all you can do from Windows is move them around to match your physical location.

 

[pvc]

I have been chatting with Dell Support for a couple of hours. We updated the Nvidia Video Driver, the Chipset Driver, and also updated the BIOS.

The problem still occurs when I power off my Surround-Sound/TV/system. Somehow the power-off event causes my two monitors to go into Extend mode (not Duplicate/Clone mode as originally setup). I can tell they are in Extend mode because if I mouse over the Control-Panel-Display icon on the taskbar, I can see the extend/two monitor logo instead of the duplicate/one monitor logo. The desktop stays flipped to the turned off TV until I unplug the HDMI cable.

The desktop comes back after I unplug the HDMI cable because the cable unplugging event reconfigures to a single display.

 

[MasterChief]

Then your tv is the issue. It is not cutting signal when it should be doing so. It's keeping the channel (of communication) open so-to-speak, even when powered off.

A good test to see what happens is if you leave HDMI in, but unplug tv from the wall.

Maybe there is an option on the tv OSD settings to alter this behavior.

 

[pvc]

Then your tv is the issue. It is not cutting signal when it should be doing so. It's keeping the channel (of communication) open so-to-speak, even when powered off.

A good test to see what happens is if you leave HDMI in, but unplug tv from the wall.

Maybe there is an option on the tv OSD settings to alter this behavior.

I believe that's it!

I don't actually plug the HDMI cable into the TV. I plug it into the Game port of a Marantz AV7005 Surround Sound System.


Then the HDMI signal from this game input (or one of many other sources) is then routed to the TV. The TV has an HDMI control option that tells the surround system when the TV is shut off, so that the Surround Sound system can also shut off. Though, it doesn't actually shut off. It goes into standby mode.

If I unplug the Marantz AV7005 then Win8 automatically reconfigures to one monitor and automatically reconfigures back to two monitors when I plug it back in.

 

[MasterChief]

Try the other output port on the Marantz.

The ARC channel may be what is keeping things alive. Try other port, yep.

Heck, try different input ports while you're at it, too.

See if that has some settings you can alter about it. Probably not as it doesn't seem so to me, just by looking at it.

I found this gem in the manual:

• When “HDMI Control” is set to “ON”, it consumes more standby
power. If you are not using this unit for an extended period, it is
recommended that you unplug the power cord from the power outlet.
• “HDMI Control” does not work when the power to the equipment is off.
Either turn power on or set to standby.
• The HDMI control function controls operations of a TV that is compatible
with the HDMI control function. Make sure that the TV and HDMI are
connected when you perform HDMI control.
• If the “HDMI Control” settings have been changed, always reset the
power to connected devices after the change.

 

[pvc]

Try the other output port on the Marantz.

See if that has some settings you can alter about it. Probably not as it doesn't seem so to me, just by looking at it.

I will talk with some Marantz people to see if I can find a command to cut communications before going into standby. It's a complicated interface because of the HDMI security handshake protocol. And THANKS for the help!

 

[pvc]

Thanks. I got it working now. Instead of connecting PC->AV7005->TV I connected PC->TV->AV7005 using the HDMI(ARC) feature to carry sound from TV->AV7005.

I use the the HDMI(ARC) feature because I have an over-the-air antenna (actually two, one pointing to San Francisco, and a second pointing to Sacramento). I need the the HDMI(ARC) feature to carry sound from the TV to the AV7005. It works quite well (even with surround sound).

Next I need to give a few details in a separate post as to how this works (terribly) in Win8...

 

[pvc]

Some vexing details when using an HDMI connection from a Windows8 computer/PC to watch TV.
This is nuts…

When you plug in the HDMI cable from your PC to the TV, Windows8 will automatically set up two monitors. The problem is that the monitors are setup in extend mode instead of duplicate/clone mode.

Extend mode is two monitors side-by-side making a very wide desktop where you can drag a window off the side of one monitor and onto the other monitor. Duplicate mode is two cloned monitors where you see the same thing on both monitors.

Windows8 has a desktop interface for running Windows7 desktop Apps and a metro interface for running fullscreen touchpad Apps. Usually these interfaces are merged together. Now get this… By default (when you plug in that HDMI cable) Windows8 gives you two Extend mode monitors with the Desktop on the TV and the Metro Apps on the PC.

Worse yet. You need to use a desktop app (Control-Panel/Display/Change Display Settings) in order to switch from extend mode to duplicate mode. But guess what? Your desktop is gone, it may be on your TV in another room, or it may be gone completely if you had any common HDMI cabling issues.

Here’s what I had to do. I sent my wife into the TV room while I controlled the mouse at my PC. She gave me the verbal mouse movement cues such as (Up, Up, Up, Right, Right, Up a little more, Click). With verbal mouse movement cues we were able to pull down the Extend mode selection, change it to Duplicate, and then mouse over to click the Apply button.

Voila! Done. It is obvious to me that no Microsoft engineer has ever watched TV from his/her computer.

Oh, a tip to recover from a lost desktop if you are stuck. Just unplug the HDMI cable and start over.

 

[alphanumeric]

You can launch Metro from any monitor when in extend mode. You can also launch the desktop from any monitor. If I click the Start Orb on any one of my 3 monitors Metro opens on that monitor. Once launched I can drag it over to another monitor if I want. My desktop expands across all 3 monitors and I can access it from any of the 3 monitors. I can run desktop programs on all three at once if I want and move them from monitor to monitor. I can switch back and forth from Metro to the desktop on all three monitors no problem.

 

[pvc]

You can launch Metro from any monitor when in extend mode. You can also launch the desktop from any monitor. If I click the Start Orb on any one of my 3 monitors Metro opens on that monitor. Once launched I can drag it over to another monitor if I want. My desktop expands across all 3 monitors and I can access it from any of the 3 monitors. I can run desktop programs on all three at once if I want and move them from monitor to monitor. I can switch back and forth from Metro to the desktop on all three monitors no problem.

I’m sure you can do all this. After you have already setup multiple monitors.

Let’s talk about before multiple monitor setup. I would send my wife over to the TV room. Then she would give me mousing cues (Left, Left, More, Down, Down) to get to the Start Orb on the desktop that is on the TV in the other room. Then more mouse cues to get to the (Control-Panel/Display/Change Display Settings window) and then drag that window over to my computer monitor?

And what if I didn't have a wife? You can't get a girlfriend to do this kind of stuff!

 

[alphanumeric]

Duplicate would be better in this situation. The Start Orb is available on both monitors. If you mouse down to the lower left corner of any monitor it will show. Click it and metro will launch on that monitor without having to drag it over. If you right click the taskbar and go to properties there is an option to "Show taskbar on all displays". That also puts an orb in plain site on each monitor so you don't have to mouse to the corner to see it. The Windows logo key + the Shift Key + the left or right arrow key will move an open program or app that has the focus from screen to screen. All I'm saying is this comment "By default (when you plug in that HDMI cable) Windows8 gives you two Extend mode monitors with the Desktop on the TV and the Metro Apps on the PC." is not 100% accurate. Metro opens on the monitor set as Main in display properties, but you don't have to launch it from there. Also the desktop is actually on both monitors. Your taskbar may only be on the one monitor but that doesn't stop you from launching a desktop program from the Metro start screen on the display with no taskbar.

 

[pvc]

Hmmmm, I was trying very hard to launch the desktop App (Control-Panel/Display/Change Display Settings) from the Metro window and I couldn't find any desktop apps. None whatsoever. When I used (Charm/search) I could see only Metro Apps.

Also, for those of us without extensive knowledge of the two Win8 Metro/Desktop interfaces this is very complicated. Especially since the two interfaces (Metro/Desktop) are usually merged but may also be separate! All I wanted to do is plug in a cable and watch TV.

 

[alphanumeric]

Launch the Metro Start screen and mouse over to it. A down pointing arrow should be visible in the lower right corner. That switches you to the All Apps screen in Windows 8.1. Everything shows on that screen including any installed desktop programs. You can then pin what you want to the main Start Screen. All my games, office, control panel etc show there. Even administrative tools if you want. The stuff I use every day I pin to the main screen.

I hear you about some of this being confusing. Keep in mind though, that as far as Windows is concerned your TV is just another monitor. Windows treats it like any other monitor plugged into the HDMI cable. It can't use the tuner or any other TV functions, all it can do is use it as a display so it treats it as one. Most people want extend when they add a monitor so that's what it does.

 

[pvc]

Yes I know about the down arrow showing all apps. I looked for it and it wasn't there. Is it possible that's a Win8.1 feature? Because I went back to Dell Factory Settings (Win8) when I was stuck with no desktop. I do not have a down arrow right now at this very moment. I use (Charms/Search) in Win8 to get the full list of apps.

But I am here to tell you that I could not do that when Win8 extended my desktop to the TV. On the monitor with Metro Apps the (Charms/Search) did not produce a full list of apps. I tried many times.

Now we can talk about these workarounds after the fact. In some ways this is even more confusing now because we have multiple versions of windows (8/8.1) and we have different monitor setups (extend/duplicate).

But this problem is way more than confusing! The tools needed to configure a new system are ripped out from your computer screen and sent somewhere else. You cannot continue with setting up your system. Even with Dell help. Even with Microsoft help. For days on end! This situation seems much more than confusing to me. Win8 Win8.1

 

[alphanumeric]

It is different in 8.0 versus 8.1 which doesn't help things, but maybe this will help. http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4060-apps-screen-open-windows-8-a.html Option 2 right click in an empty area of the Start screen and you should see an All Apps option. Tiles do get added to the Metro Start Screen when you install desktop programs. If they didn't there would be no (easy) way to launch them. A lot of the settings are still in the Control Panel, the ones that aren't can be a pita to find though. If you right click the Start Orb in Windows 8.1 you'll get quick links to Control Panel, Device Manager, Disk Management, Task Manager etc. I'm not sure if that's there in 8.0. You'll have to mouse to the lower left corner to see the orb.

 

[pvc]

The plot sickens. I went over to the Windows Store to get the free Win8.1 upgrade. Clicked a few things and the upgrade started downloading. It took a while. I was switching back and forth between two computers (Windows 7 and Win8) connected to my computer monitor while waiting for the download to complete.

When I flipped back to my Win8 computer after the download there was a prompt to Restart. I told it yes to go ahead and restart windows. It's is hard to believe what happened next.

My Win8 computer lost the monitor signal. I thought this was a momentary state that would change as the computer restarted. But after 5, 10, 15 minutes or more, the Win8 computer still had no signal to the monitor.

Then I remembered the old disappearing desktop scenario. Went to my living room and turned on the TV and there it was. Windows 8.1 was installing on my TV, in the other room, where the TV was off. What if someone wanted to watch TV? I should tell them Microsoft Install screens are entertaining enough?

After a long time of installing it finally came back to my computer monitor with the question to accept the license terms. Thank goodness for small favors. At least I didn't have to use the wife-cursor-cue-trick for answering the configuration questions.

Go on. Tell me this is not a bug. Tell me that a majority of users use extended screens. Tell me I can use the Metro screen to run Desktop Apps (there was no metro screen, only the install). Tell me it's okay to have updates begin on one monitor and then switch to another. imo/This needs to be fixed!

 

[alphanumeric]

Hey I'm sorry this happened but your setup is far from the standard setup the average user has. As far as Windows is concerned your TV is a monitor and it treats it like one. It has no way of knowing its a TV and is used for other purposes. It also has no way of knowing its in another room. The normal setup for a dual monitors is both monitors being in front of you on your desk. When your updating to 8.1 you are actually updating to a new OS. The HDMI output of the video card is likely set by the video card to be the main output. It's the primary output and gets priority, thus Windows sets it as the main display on the install. If both monitors where in front of you it would be a none issue and you could switch it so your other monitor is the Main display in Windows.

Its not a bug and yes the majority of users with multi monitor setups use extend. When your installing Windows you don't get to the desktop or metro until the install finishes. This update is more than your usual Windows update or service pack. At some point its going to take control of the system and you won't be able to do other things at the same time. It can't update files if they are in use. Its an OS upgrade similar to going from 7 to 8. If you were doing a clean install the same thing would likely happen. The HDMI would be used by default and you wouldn't get your dual screens until Windows was installed. I'm not trying to be a smart ass by the way, its just the way it works is all. If you stop thinking of it as a TV and that its just another monitor, some of what I said should make sense.