Why Windows Blue Start Button Debate Doesn’t Really Matter

There are two points to make here. The first is that if you want to reintroduce the Start button or the ability to boot to the desktop, there are plenty of ways of doing that right now with third-party programs. I’m a big fan of Classic Shell, which performs both those tasks, If your sole reason for resisting Windows 8 is the lack of a Start button, you haven’t thought the issue through.

The second point is this. People don’t like change, and one of the arguments against Windows 8 in a corporate environment is that training will undoubtedly be needed to ensure that staff can master the nuances of Windows 8. However, merely returning the Start button won’t eliminate the need for that kind of training. Even if there’s a start button, there are still new elements of the interface that will need to be learned: just off the top of my head, features like Charms, left and right swiping (especially on non-touch devices), installing and updating Windows 8 apps and even working out how to power down your machine all require learning new methods.

Why The Windows Blue Start Button Debate Doesn’t Really Matter | Lifehacker Australia

 

[MrShowdown]

Yeeaahh!! Start Button is coming back (Hopefully)!!

 

[Ray8]

We already know that there have been more than:

- 3 million Start8 downloads

- 4 million Classic Shell downloads.

- 1.5 million Pokki downloads

and who knows how many of the other variants.

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

That's 14% of the apparent total sales of Windows 8 licences. That's over 24% if you discount the OEM licences bought for PCs (that have/haven't sold). That's an even greater percentage if you just take into account just the consumer licences that have been sold individually out of the remaining 35%.

How much more proof is required?

 

[mdmd]

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

It has been reported that approximately 100 million copies (licenses) of Windows 8 have been sold.

 

[mdmd]

I was curious what time it was in Australia. Is it really around 4 o'clock in the afternoon? You are literally on the other side of the planet. It is a little after 2am here. Signing off.

 

[Ray8]

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

It has been reported that approximately 100 million copies (licenses) of Windows 8 have been sold.

Microsoft is very coy about the sales figures, so I'm working on the 60 million that they have reported. Even if it was 100 million, the current information that 65% has gone to OEMs holds true and the percentages would still be high. And whatever the actual sales numbers, the percentages statistically represent a very significant number.

Yes, it is 4:00 pm here.

 

[Nemix]

To me this just means Windows 8.2 will become a reality come end of next year.

 

[Lebon14]

As has been discussed many times here, the comments made by the author completely miss the point.

Firstly, why should anyone have to install third party programs to get back what should not have been removed in the first place?

Secondly, if you can boot directly to the desktop and have the Windows 7 start menu in it's full state, you don't have to learn about charms, swiping, apps and the weird power down.

That's the whole point of having a traditional desktop with the start button. What is it with these geeks that they can't comprehend such a simple concept?

You, sir, win a medal!

EDIT I've read that the supposedly "Start Button" is just a decoy to make the Start Screen appear. If it is so, Windows 7 has beautiful days ahead of it. I don't need a whole shelf covering a whole wall to handle what a 3-drawers shelf can do.

 

[pcRat]

We already know that there have been more than:

- 3 million Start8 downloads

- 4 million Classic Shell downloads.

- 1.5 million Pokki downloads

and who knows how many of the other variants.

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

That's 14% of the apparent total sales of Windows 8 licences. That's over 24% if you discount the OEM licences bought for PCs (that have/haven't sold). That's an even greater percentage if you just take into account just the consumer licences that have been sold individually out of the remaining 35%.

How much more proof is required?

A download is not proof it is being used. Some people downloaded & tried more than one before settling on one. Or settling on none and going Au Natural through 8 after all.

 

[Ray8]

We already know that there have been more than:

- 3 million Start8 downloads

- 4 million Classic Shell downloads.

- 1.5 million Pokki downloads

and who knows how many of the other variants.

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

That's 14% of the apparent total sales of Windows 8 licences. That's over 24% if you discount the OEM licences bought for PCs (that have/haven't sold). That's an even greater percentage if you just take into account just the consumer licences that have been sold individually out of the remaining 35%.

How much more proof is required?

A download is not proof it is being used. Some people downloaded & tried more than one before settling on one. Or settling on none and going Au Natural through 8 after all.

No more so than what Microsoft says about sales of Windows 8 licences. They may have been sold, to OEMs and even consumers like myself (two licences), but they languish unused in machines that haven't been sold, or sold and subsequently upgraded to Windows 7, or they simply reside in someone's PC as a dual boot waiting for Microsoft to see sense.

It's playing a numbers game and fiddling with the statistics. However, the fact that at least 8.5 million people have downloaded and tried an alternative, is indicative in itself of the degree of discontent. You can't escape that facts.

 

[jimbo45]

We already know that there have been more than:

- 3 million Start8 downloads

- 4 million Classic Shell downloads.

- 1.5 million Pokki downloads

and who knows how many of the other variants.

That's a total of at least 8.5+ million people who want the start button back.

That's 14% of the apparent total sales of Windows 8 licences. That's over 24% if you discount the OEM licences bought for PCs (that have/haven't sold). That's an even greater percentage if you just take into account just the consumer licences that have been sold individually out of the remaining 35%.

How much more proof is required?

Hi there
Number of downloads doesn't mean number of users -- I've downloaded loads of stuff and then either for one reason or another never installed or having installed just didn't like it and uninstalled.

I tried Classic shell when I first played around with Windows 8 -- now I I've uninstalled it -- found it more of a hindrance than a real use.

With custom toolbars desktop short cuts, task bar and knowing a few of the keyboard short cuts I've found I really don't have to bother with the start screen ever if at all after initial boot and for even really intense special "Officy / Engineering" type windows apps I can use Win 8 just as easily or even easier than Win 7.

A lot of hot air is being thrown around Forums, press etc. People ALWAYS moan when things change --in fact with very few exceptions I actually can't think of a SINGLE PIECE of software that doesn't have its fair share of detractors when a new version is released.

Actually there is ONE - Photoshop - in spite of the myriad of additions since version 7 (now CS6 many versions later) the interface is still essentially unchanged and incredibly functional).

Typical examples -- Office 2007 -- people moaned (and still moan) about the ribbon / change from the clean interface of Office XP and Office 2007.

Office 2013 - people thought even versions of office 2010 / 2007 were an improvement over Office 2013

Acronis -- the newer interfaces are really HORRIBLE compared with the old releases such as Acronis true image (version 9).

Nero -- new interfaces - hideously bloated -- Nero 7 was probably the last sensible version

Windows versions itself - apart from Windows 7 even the now seemingly loved Windows XP was hated at first and called Windows e(XP)ensive and the activation system was prophesised never to work or become so complicated users would never be able to handle it.

And loads more. I'm sure you all have your own examples where often you wish the newer version of software would look like the old release -- however in most cases you get used to it and just get on with it -- for example I really LOATHE the current interface of Acronis but it works and I haven't found anything that works better for me as an alternative -- and I've tried -- Macrium etc and their new interfaces are horrible too.

So while Ms might make some adjustments the chances are the GUI will remain more or less as it is now --so you have 3 choices - Use it, add a 3rd party app (we do this all the time anyway even when Windows has a similar feature installed --for example Backup software. Office software - Ms Word in stead of Wordpad etc., or use something else you DO like such as W7, a "Fruit company" machine or Linux.

Touch whether we like it or not is here to stay and the classic desktop is a diminishing and increasingly unimportant part of Ms's business. Corporates are already locked in and will undoubtedly stay with W7 and who knows or even cares what sort of computing we will be using in the office place by 2020 - even if there is such a place as "the Office" any more.

I think it's time these threads have run their course -- what would be interesting is for people to find smarter ways of using and customising W8 so it DOES have more appeal than currently. Bringing back a start button or even a Menu isn't the real issue --loads of people I know on W7 still never bother with the menu at all anyway.

Scrolling endless tiles though on a non touch device is of course a pain -- we don't need every single .EXE file as a tile when a large app is installed.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[brkkab123]

I happen to like 8. However, there are area's in it they need to fix. 1.Core desktop and modern app's need the same setting's and to be able to communicate with each other. Both version's of I.E. are good example's here. Modern I.E. doesn't even see our Desktop I.E. Favorites that we sorted the way we wanted and have kept them for year's. Mine are in folder's by category and each category/content's is then sorted alphabetically in the Favorites folder. 2.Where's Xbox Music and Xbox Videos customization options at ? They don't have volume control, srs wow effects, equalizer, etc. Windows Media Player has them. 3.Why can't Task Manager show History for desktop program's? P.S. That's just pointing thing's that should've been fixed soon after release.

 

[fourthofjuly]

One may opt to disable these apps which will render the start screen environment totally useless and unnecessary. Windows 8 is a big joke.

The start screen environment is quite robust. The start screen yields access to all apps via hot keys.
It is important to consider all factors involved rather than focusing on the metro.

View attachment 20720

Microsoft will be very happy indeed to sell and offer at fee service for millions of copies of Windows 7.
Microsoft will be glad to sell you Windows 7.


Microsoft's view of the post-PC world: 'I'm not bovvered' | ZDNet

I totally undertstand. 100% agree. But hotkeys are not common to many users. These are like hidden commands. As someone mentioned before, big businesses will have to shed out $$$ to RE-TRAIN people to use the Win 8 UI. If say apps are disabled due to reasons I've mentioned before, what is the use of a big blank start screen with "hidden commands"? It's a head scratcher. One can laugh all he wants, but most people are more productive if things are right in front of them.

 

[mdmd]

... But hotkeys are not common to many users. These are like hidden commands. As someone mentioned before, big businesses will have to shed out $$$ to RE-TRAIN people to use the Win 8 UI. If say apps are disabled due to reasons I've mentioned before, what is the use of a big blank start screen with "hidden commands"? It's a head scratcher. One can laugh all he wants, but most people are more productive if things are right in front of them.

That's true, which is why I am not opposed to the start menu, whether free install, other means, toolbar, or provided by Microsoft. My point about the blank start screen, and you are right, it is a head scratcher, is not about hot key commands or hidden features.

It is about what one can do when looking at it. It is different than all previous start menus provided by MS which is why I like it. It (the start screen) has a similar capability to the start menu search results but is full screen and therefore is easier to access from my point of view. I press a key, go up or down with the arrow, or use a mouse pointer and press enter. No sideways scrolling is required, no large tiles, and everything is alphabetically sorted. No need to search through nests. Of course this is my personal preference. It has nothing to do with Win + D or Win + E or Ctrl + Tab or such controls.

I use it all the time. In addition, websites, documents, favorites, or anything can be added to search results if copied to the correct location. It is not as easy as the traditional start menu, but I like it because it is different and easier for me to see.

If I am looking at my blank start screen, pressing a thru z or 0 thru 9 brings up the results I need. No keyboard commands. Enter a letter, select a listing, then press enter ... (enter 8, press enter to the forums) - a tile would be easier. a (for amazon.com) - b (for best buy) - c (for control panel, the C drive or computer) - d (for desktop) - n (Netflix) - w (for weather) - of course some of these are available with Win + X but single key search for everything else.

Let's say e (for excel), or e (for event viewer or file explorer), I could go on all day...
Administrative tools can be listed in all apps just as in the start menu, they don't need to be on the start screen.

The start menu is also backward compatible with older installers and is better for many program listings.
I can see where someone can easily say the metro is broken. I like a challenge.
The average home user could not handle or be happy with how I work.
Adding a start menu option would have been a huge plus for Microsoft and the customers.

The classic shell and others do a fine job. I think they (start menus) interfere with how I work just as others think the metro interferes with how they work. If the classic shell and others can block the metro, the edges, and boot to desktop, problem solved. I understand the controversy and annoyance.

 

[fourthofjuly]

... But hotkeys are not common to many users. These are like hidden commands. As someone mentioned before, big businesses will have to shed out $$$ to RE-TRAIN people to use the Win 8 UI. If say apps are disabled due to reasons I've mentioned before, what is the use of a big blank start screen with "hidden commands"? It's a head scratcher. One can laugh all he wants, but most people are more productive if things are right in front of them.

That's true, which is why I am not opposed to the start menu, whether free install, other means, toolbar, or provided by Microsoft. My point about the blank start screen, and you are right, it is a head scratcher, is not about hot key commands or hidden features.

It is about what one can do when looking at it. It is different than all previous start menus provided by MS which is why I like it. It (the start screen) has a similar capability to the start menu search results but is full screen and therefore is easier to access from my point of view. I press a key, go up or down with the arrow, or use a mouse pointer and press enter. No sideways scrolling is required, no large tiles, and everything is alphabetically sorted. No need to search through nests. Of course this is my personal preference. It has nothing to do with Win + D or Win + E or Ctrl + Tab or such controls.

I use it all the time. In addition, websites, documents, favorites, or anything can be added to search results if copied to the correct location. It is not as easy as the traditional start menu, but I like it because it is different and easier for me to see.

If I am looking at my blank start screen, pressing a thru z or 0 thru 9 brings up the results I need. No keyboard commands. Enter a letter, select a listing, then press enter ... (enter 8, press enter to the forums) - a tile would be easier. a (for amazon.com) - b (for best buy) - c (for control panel, the C drive or computer) - d (for desktop) - n (Netflix) - w (for weather) - of course some of these are available with Win + X but single key search for everything else.

Let's say e (for excel), or e (for event viewer or file explorer), I could go on all day...
Administrative tools can be listed in all apps just as in the start menu, they don't need to be on the start screen.

The start menu is also backward compatible with older installers and is better for many program listings.
I can see where someone can easily say the metro is broken. I like a challenge.
The average home user could not handle or be happy with how I work.
Adding a start menu option would have been a huge plus for Microsoft and the customers.

The classic shell and others do a fine job. I think they (start menus) interfere with how I work just as others think the metro interferes with how they work. If the classic shell and others can block the metro, the edges, and boot to desktop, problem solved. I understand the controversy and annoyance.

View attachment 20747

Personally, I have no problem with hotkeys and the head scratcher start screen. I can work around it. But that is not the change I want to see. I like how fast Win 8 is. I like the hybrid shutdown and stuffs like that. Like I said before, MS should have treated tablets/touchscreens & desktop separately and leave Metro stuff on the former. There should be an option to choose from when you first run a Windows 8 system--- "Touchscreen? or Mouse?"... and then boot up to start menu or start screen which ever peripheral you choose.

 

[Edwin]

Hi All:
My first post here, thought I'd put my two cents in.
I find the Start screen almost pointless for desktop users with keyboard/mouse and no touch device, but, I have found a way to make good use of that real estate in a functional way that looks great as well.
First thing I do, usually, when I boot up is put some music on and pinning it all to the Start Screen is a great way to launch it immediately.


View attachment 34419

 

[mdmd]

Hi All: My first post here, ...

Hello Edwin. Welcome to the Eight Forums.

Beautiful Start Screen, nice one. You should post it in the customization section under post your start screen.
Take a screen shot - Win + PrintScreen or other means.
Upload it to http://www.eightforums.com/customization/6732-post-your-start-screen.html

 

[brkkab123]

As far as Start Screen customization you should check out Stardock Decor8. It let's you pick numerous images for the Start Screen and they change after say 30 minutes just like desktop themes do. It also adds more Lock Screen images. You can only have 1 image selected for the Lock Screen. It's definitely worth the $4.99 they charge for it.

 

[DavidY]

3.Why can't Task Manager show History for desktop program's?

Off topic, but not sure what you're getting at here?

The "App History" tab in Task Manager can be made to include Desktop programs - like this for example...


Or did you mean something else?