Why they designed Windows 8 the way they did

[Ray8]

The Nintendo example shows exactly what Microsoft has done. The typical game controller, which I believe is still in wide use, was added to with the Wii controller that provided a different experience for different games/task. But the original game controller hasn't been replaced when it comes to traditional console games.

The other examples are just as flawed, books, cars etc. Not one example has been replaced by what was given as an example of a new approach. The example of familiarity is a complete crock, people don't just hang on to things just because they are familiar with them, they hang on until something better comes along, and Windows 8 isn't better.

That video also raises a whole new world of jokes about Microsoft building cars.

 

[Mystere]

Interesting video. Pretty good sales job. Can't say I agree with all of his assertions. The one that bothers me the most is the assertion that:

FAMILIAR=MEDIOCRE

I think you missed the point. The point wasn't that familiar=mediocre, it's that you'll never know if there's anything better if you don't move outside your comfort zone, try new things, and attempt to improve upon the previous versions.

Today's best of breed is next years mediocre. So even though today, something may be the pinnacle of achievement, if we just stop we might as well die.

 

[Coke Robot]

This is a bit long, but if you're actually curious.. even if you hate the design.. it might be interesting to understand the reasons behind it. It's really interesting to see how little Windows 8 changed from their early prototypes.

UX Week 2012 | Jensen Harris | The Story of Windows 8 on Vimeo

Interesting video. Pretty good sales job. Can't say I agree with all of his assertions. The one that bothers me the most is the assertion that:

FAMILIAR=MEDIOCRE

The video of the Mediocre car was cute. However this presentation paints too broad a brush, IMHO. If "familiarity" is a bad thing then let's re-imagine the keyboard. That's been attempted (DVORAK) but never took. English text. Let's start reading right-to-left, that will be cool. Just form the words backwards. That'll work. Why not re-imagine the mouse yet again and go with a trackball design. I haven't seen one of those in years but at the time they were going to replace the mouse.

Someone earlier said that Microsoft changed things "because they can". Exactly. Is there anything "wrong" with the new design? No, not necessarily, but to make the assertion that change to their design is necessary for everybody is a bit presumptuous. The guy is very soft-spoken and eloquent in his talk but the arrogance [of Microsoft] still manages to slip through, particularly when he's lampooning the design of the iBook interface in the iPad/iPhone. I see his point but, quite honestly, I find that interface both entertaining and comfortable. Sure, as a minimalist you might wonder why all the extra code to make it "pretty" (chrome). Believe it or not some [a lot] of people like that kind of thing.

If you had talked to Microsoft just a short five or six years ago, they would have told you that the Aero "chrome" was the "wave of the future", now all-of-a-sudden they've reversed course and gone "minimalist". Again, I see the argument, however it seems pretty schizophrenic to me. Want to know why they did all this? Apple. That's the one and only reason that makes any sense.

Yeah, I used the thing for a month and it's fine ... but necessary? That's a real stretch, particularly to a desktop user.

-Max :shock:

You kind of defined mediocrity in the middle part. Is there anything wrong with the design? Not really. Is it well suited for today's PC usage? Iffy. He made a good point saying how you boot twice, once into Windows, and another into a web browser. It's almost like the web browser becomes Windows.... Consider that when Windows 95 was designed, the primary task was Office software and productivity related work. It's a tired design of an era far gone. These days, we do that, but we also do a LOT of web based things from news reading, video watching, music playing and streaming, and so much more that Windows 95 would be confused why it would be there.

I really enjoyed the part about apple. That literally took the words right out of my mouth! Seriously, leather stitching and paper rip outs is just disgusting. Is there anything wrong with it? Maybe, but repulses my eyeballs. Is it familiar, yeah. Mediocre. Arguably yes. The use of the bookshelf, that flips over to iTunes, oh my! I personally like to live a minimalist lifestyle, kind of like how that guy said he was going to get rid of all his books because of the eReader, I don't own a DVD movie or player, a CD album, or anything of physical media. I'm all digital and make use of my desktop PC, which by the way, I'm at the drawing board redesigning a case for it to fit 15, three terabyte hard drives. The use of over the top UI design is just gross and honestly at this point, distracting. For example, I had a laptop running the Release Preview with Aero, alongside my PC running the RTM version, and between the two I was noticing the window chrome more than on my PC. A piece of UI that isn't even close to a significant amount, probably 10 percent of the total UI, was standing out to me more than the actual window content. Same thing happens to me when using 7, I just look at the chrome and controls, and I think WOW! It's so shiny, it's glassy, and glows. I don't know about anyone else, but I do REAL work on my PC, I have very little time to be gushing over something so menial, and believe you me I use my PC all day everyday.

Honestly, I don't think apple had too much influence on this one. If you ask me, I bet Windows Phone 7 had more impact on Windows 8 than anything. I remember reading the story about Windows Phone 7's early development days, and it was decided in around 2009 to basically break off from Windows Mobile 6 and just start fresh and not keep the older design. It was later released in November 2010, which would be right around where the Windows team would had made their first mockups. If you look at those mockups they had, they look more Aero and less metro. Why? Convergence of a unified Microsoft, the speaker made the point of how that design language is in Windows Phone, Windows, and Xbox; as well as other apps and services. Maybe apple had some influence, probably they were grossed out by their leather designs! And they wanted to do something that is modern versus familiar. 3D icons and glass doesn't sound too modern.

 

[Coke Robot]

As a designer oriented person, WOW. I was real impressed at how stupid little details that God can only see are in Windows 8. Like for example, with the word Start on the Start Screen. When you pan over on the Start Screen and it gets close to a group title, that title lines up PERFECTLY with the word Start. I tried this out with my Touch Mouse, it works!

I've also noticed if you have the Charms bar open, and have the music player banner showing, the banner lines up perfectly and is symmetrical to the time portion of the Charms.

This is a new Microsoft for sure. I challenge the person that says the design of Windows 8 took little effort to design. It OBVIOUSLY didn't!

I choose modern over familiar. I've used and learned the ways of Windows 8 and take advantage of them, on a desktop without touch. I believe it's better over the familiar design of Windows 7, which really dawned on me how old and dated that design is. Windows 7 is literally a glassy, shinier version of Windows 95. It's strange.

 

[Coke Robot]

I just don't know how one could use touch on a desktop, effectively anyway. I have a dual monitor setup and sit much more than an arm's length from them, so if I tried to use touch, I'd be forever hunched over my desk. Maybe the idea is to cause a whole new generation of medical ailments that need treatment?

How do you drive?....

 

[DooRules]

You have any more silly analogies to toss out.

 

[Ray8]

How do you drive?....

By the sounds of it, quite differently to you and clearly something different to what you drive. I have no need to touch the 'window' in front of me when I drive and I have the 'familiar' controls that have been in use for ages.

 

[znod]

I haven't read this yet, but the author thinks he has insights on this thread subject.

 

[Pazzmon]

Just watched this video and is slowly turning me more into a Microsoft fan boy!

 

[Max Peck]

Hi Coke,

You kind of defined mediocrity in the middle part. Is there anything wrong with the design? Not really. Is it well suited for today's PC usage? Iffy. He made a good point saying how you boot twice, once into Windows, and another into a web browser. It's almost like the web browser becomes Windows.... Consider that when Windows 95 was designed, the primary task was Office software and productivity related work. It's a tired design of an era far gone. These days, we do that, but we also do a LOT of web based things from news reading, video watching, music playing and streaming, and so much more that Windows 95 would be confused why it would be there.

I can certainly understand the viewpoint about the "boot twice" idea. I never much cared for the web browser idea in the first place. I prefer a more rich desktop experience.

I really enjoyed the part about apple. That literally took the words right out of my mouth! Seriously, leather stitching and paper rip outs is just disgusting.

OK ... so we differ on that point. My eyes don't repulse over that one.

Is there anything wrong with it? Maybe, but repulses my eyeballs. Is it familiar, yeah. Mediocre. Arguably yes. The use of the bookshelf, that flips over to iTunes, oh my! I personally like to live a minimalist lifestyle, kind of like how that guy said he was going to get rid of all his books because of the eReader, I don't own a DVD movie or player, a CD album, or anything of physical media. I'm all digital and make use of my desktop PC, which by the way, I'm at the drawing board redesigning a case for it to fit 15, three terabyte hard drives.

You're not a typical user. You're into micromanaging the design of your machine. That's OK, but most people don't do that.

The use of over the top UI design is just gross and honestly at this point, distracting. For example, I had a laptop running the Release Preview with Aero, alongside my PC running the RTM version, and between the two I was noticing the window chrome more than on my PC. A piece of UI that isn't even close to a significant amount, probably 10 percent of the total UI, was standing out to me more than the actual window content. Same thing happens to me when using 7, I just look at the chrome and controls, and I think WOW! It's so shiny, it's glassy, and glows. I don't know about anyone else, but I do REAL work on my PC, I have very little time to be gushing over something so menial, and believe you me I use my PC all day everyday.

So do I. I've been using computers since the mid 70's. When PC's first appeared I went into hock to buy an original IBM PC. I used to be up every night until 04:00 coding and back up for my regular programming job at 07:00. (Yes, I survived for weeks on 3 hours of sleep per night - writing FORTRAN by day and Assembly by night). I can't do that any more but I'm still at my machine all the time. The chrome in Win7 doesn't bother me. I find it attractive and refined looking. Win8, not so much.

Honestly, I don't think apple had too much influence on this one. If you ask me, I bet Windows Phone 7 had more impact on Windows 8 than anything. I remember reading the story about Windows Phone 7's early development days, and it was decided in around 2009 to basically break off from Windows Mobile 6 and just start fresh and not keep the older design. It was later released in November 2010, which would be right around where the Windows team would had made their first mockups. If you look at those mockups they had, they look more Aero and less metro. Why? Convergence of a unified Microsoft, the speaker made the point of how that design language is in Windows Phone, Windows, and Xbox; as well as other apps and services. Maybe apple had some influence, probably they were grossed out by their leather designs! And they wanted to do something that is modern versus familiar. 3D icons and glass doesn't sound too modern.

I was a user of Windows Mobile 6 myself. I used just about every version of Windows CE up through Pocket PC right on into Windows Mobile. When I caught view of the "Metro" interface in the upcoming Windows Mobile 7 I gave up and defected to the iPhone as far as my mobile devices were concerned. I didn't care for "kiddie blocks" back at Windows 1.1, I didn't want to go back to it.

Having said that, though, I don't think Win8 is particularly "ugly" once you have it set up and working. I actually liked my Win8 installation on this beast but had accumulated enough gripes that I needed to return to Win7. There wasn't anything in Win8 that added to my productivity *at all*. I write business-intelligence code and any GUI presentation I develop is to the Windows desktop. I looked into Win8's development model and, for the kind of software I develop, it just didn't add any tools that I felt would help me enhance my software development work. I am working on building an ASP.Net version of my application but, again, Windows 8 doesn't bring anything to the table that would enhance that for me.

I don't consider the resizable windowed desktop experience to be mediocre. While I watched the video I resized it down to a small window, stuck it up in the corner and worked on several other things while I was watching it. There's no way in Metro I'd be able to do that: the best I'd get would be the video on one side and something else on the other. Sure, I could go to the desktop in Win8 and accomplish same but then how would that have been any different than staying in Win7? It wouldn't. So, for a user like myself it's a zero-sum-game.

Maybe the desktop metaphor is "old, tired and mediocre" for consumer (I.E. tablet or phone) devices, but for high-volume or detailed work it most certainly is not. If our tech-support folks here had Metro forced on them, their work would grind to a halt.

Apple isn't the only one who has a "reality distortion field" working with it!

-Max

 

[znod]

Just watched this video and is slowly turning me more into a Microsoft fan boy!

Still have watched it; need to get at it.

 

[Coke Robot]

How do you drive?....

By the sounds of it, quite differently to you and clearly something different to what you drive. I have no need to touch the 'window' in front of me when I drive and I have the 'familiar' controls that have been in use for ages.

I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!

 

[Coke Robot]

Just watched this video and is slowly turning me more into a Microsoft fan boy!

Wow!

 

[Ray8]

I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!

I see it quite differently. I view the mouse and keyboard as the equivalent of the vehicle controls (steering wheel, gears etc - the master controls) and touch would be equivalent to answering my phone or adjusting something on the head unit (the peripheral things that you might do that are not directly driving related).

Looking back at that video, it's quite unfortunate that Microsoft once again used a car analogy. Suggesting that a functional, but bland looking car is the equivalent of Windows 7 etc and Windows 8 is a whole new paradigm of excitement, simply shows that they were after bling and not something exciting that was also functional. A Camry and a Ferrari are both functional in how they work, but one is bland and the other is exciting. Windows 8 is not a Ferrari.

 

[Coke Robot]

I was insinuating that touch on a desktop is the same as driving, you always have your arms extended in front of you the entire time. Shoot, I stopped going to the gym because driving was fatiguing and a such a good arm workout!

I see it quite differently. I view the mouse and keyboard as the equivalent of the vehicle controls (steering wheel, gears etc - the master controls) and touch would be equivalent to answering my phone or adjusting something on the head unit (the peripheral things that you might do that are not directly driving related).

Looking back at that video, it's quite unfortunate that Microsoft once again used a car analogy. Suggesting that a functional, but bland looking car is the equivalent of Windows 7 etc and Windows 8 is a whole new paradigm of excitement, simply shows that they were after bling and not something exciting that was also functional. A Camry and a Ferrari are both functional in how they work, but one is bland and the other is exciting. Windows 8 is not a Ferrari.

They used a bland mid-sized sedan from a Subaru advert that illustrates that just using a predefined mold is only going to result in mediocrity versus innovation and breaking out from the mold. I think Windows 7 and other familiar things are like that sedan, Windows 8 and everything else new and modern (Kinect and Wii and their other examples) are like the Toyota Prius. It has an interesting design that is kind of polarizing, but it has sparked the conversation of great fuel economy, hybridizing transmissions and engines, battery packs, green energy sources to power future cars, as well as different hybrid cars like the Honda Insight and Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf as well as an IMB engineer's idea of taking current non-hybrid cars and putting on some cost effective technology to turn them into hybrids.

But the conversation that Windows 8 has not only been its polarizing design, has been touch computing, the use of tablet PCs, ending skeuomorphic design in UI design, the expansion of the Natural User Interface, different app models and even using technology to make non-touch PCs to have touch input like the Microsoft Touch Mouse or the Logitech touch pad and mice; and resulting in new PCs like the Surface Pro or the Lenovo Yoga or the Asus Tachi as well as the convertible form factor and taking traditional form factors and making them touch enabled.

The steering wheel reference I'm making is not really metaphorical, where the mouse is the wheel. But it's literally the same thing as driving, your arms are extended away from you for long periods of time. Of course, you're holding onto something, but that kind of happens with a touch desktop. Depending on how you sit, how high you sit, and how close you sit; your elbow might actually end up on top of your desk. Normally, there are guidelines to how you're supposed to sit, but usually not many follow those guidelines out of comfort. Using touch on a desktop, you have to move away from the guidelines to using a PC (the way you're supposed to sit that most people again don't follow as it's not too comfortable either) to using a touch PC. Driving a Camry is different than driving a sports car like a Dodge Viper or a Ferrari. A Ferrari and Viper have more attention to detail and details you may never see versus a Camry. Windows 8 is not a Camry, but not so much of a Ferrari either. It's a four door Dodge Charger.

 

[Ray8]

The example is wrong. A car requires a predefined mould because there are fundamental engineering, functional and design rule aspects that must be adhered to in every car. Once those requirements are satisfied, you can pretty much change other things to your hearts content. In some respects, Microsoft decided to ignore some of those fundamental requirements and do their own thing.

It's like removing the steering wheel and replacing it with a joystick. Yes, a joy stick can be used to control a car, but the results will be very unsatisfactory, as that's not what people are used to using. How well do you think a car would sell if it was steered using a joystick? That's effectively what Microsoft has done.

Also, there's nothing new about touch controls in computing, it's been around for a long time; all Windows 8 does is offer an extension of that in the Microsoft environment. They are playing catch up, but alienating their traditional user base in an attempt to entice a new group of users. Windows has been a cash cow for Microsoft for a very long time, for good reason, but once they remove the reason for that traditional user base to stick with Microsoft, then the cash cow will start to dry up. Then Microsoft will be between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Coke Robot]

The example is wrong. A car requires a predefined mould because there are fundamental engineering, functional and design rule aspects that must be adhered to in every car. Once those requirements are satisfied, you can pretty much change other things to your hearts content. In some respects, Microsoft decided to ignore some of those fundamental requirements and do their own thing.

It's like removing the steering wheel and replacing it with a joystick. Yes, a joy stick can be used to control a car, but the results will be very unsatisfactory, as that's not what people are used to using. How well do you think a car would sell if it was steered using a joystick? That's effectively what Microsoft has done.

Also, there's nothing new about touch controls in computing, it's been around for a long time; all Windows 8 does is offer an extension of that in the Microsoft environment. They are playing catch up, but alienating their traditional user base in an attempt to entice a new group of users. Windows has been a cash cow for Microsoft for a very long time, for good reason, but once they remove the reason for that traditional user base to stick with Microsoft, then the cash cow will start to dry up. Then Microsoft will be between a rock and a hard place.

No, you're taking the example far too extreme. This is about a mid-sized sedan and what its expectations are. The idea here is that the mid-sized sedan category is one that SO many makers and designers have done, that's it become mediocre and one sedan is like another sedan. In this case of that video, the Subaru reinvented the mold of the mid-sized sedan with the Impreza and changed the expectations of a mid-sized sedan.

Windows 8 isn't like blowing out the mold of how to design a car, it's blowing the mold of how to design a product that many others have designed, a Desktop based UI with icons and window chrome from chrome OS to mac OS, and reinvented that into a Start Screen with live tiles.

Interesting you mention touch controls being around for a long time. Electric cars have been around since the early days of the Ford Model T, have been developed in the '70s, experimented in the '80s, refined in the '90s, and are finally at the verge of being mainstream today. If you took away ICE engines from many people and replaced it with an electric car, they will be alienated by it. Grease monkeys (myself included) will be upset by that as a complex and beautiful thing as an engine is replaced by a motor and battery. But in the end, many people will enjoy the responsiveness of how fast an electric car can get up to in six seconds, the quietness of it, and ease and cost effective repairs. Auto makers will adapt and innovate and research designs of cars and how to make electric cars better. It'll get to a point where if an auto maker isn't building electric cars or not putting a lot effort into it and thinking electric cars are a phase, they'll die out or become a niche product for a small group of people.

 

[Ray8]

Going from last to first, people wouldn't and are not alienated by electric cars, as everything in an electric car replicates that of a traditionally powered car. Without badges etc, you couldn't even identify an electric car from any other when at a standstill and turned off. And they replicate traditionally engined cars for the very reason so as not to alienate potential buyers.

As for the first part, the car industry is huge and varied, there is room for white goods (aka Camry) and bespoke (aka Ferrari) and anything in between. The car industry provides vehicles for many an varied uses, be it utilitarian or completely impractical but enjoyable. Everyone has a choice for what they need or desire.

An OS, in itself, does nothing. An OS is designed to support and provide an environment where other programs can function. When an OS doesn't provide that environment and support, but imposes its own requirements, it ignores its prime objective. To ignore or belittle the needs of the traditional user base, is fraught with folly.

 

[Coke Robot]

Going from last to first, people wouldn't and are not alienated by electric cars, as everything in an electric car replicates that of a traditionally powered car. Without badges etc, you couldn't even identify an electric car from any other when at a standstill and turned off. And they replicate traditionally engined cars for the very reason so as not to alienate potential buyers.

As for the first part, the car industry is huge and varied, there is room for white goods (aka Camry) and bespoke (aka Ferrari) and anything in between. The car industry provides vehicles for many an varied uses, be it utilitarian or completely impractical but enjoyable. Everyone has a choice for what they need or desire.

An OS, in itself, does nothing. An OS is designed to support and provide an environment where other programs can function. When an OS doesn't provide that environment and support, but imposes its own requirements, it ignores its prime objective. To ignore or belittle the needs of the traditional user base, is fraught with folly.

That's actually arguable skeuomorphic design. TRUE EVs are differentiate from traditional cars, no grilles, no exhaust pipes, no air ducts, and have an overall weirdly aerodynamic shape. Those are the alienating true electric vehicles. That's a one size fit all solution for people that drive up in the mountain in trucks, tow boats to the lake, do family hauling with minivans, and other things. Those people would be alienated by such a rapid change and a change they would consider be not worthwhile, although that technology might actually be there and in development.

Yes, the auto industry has a lot of different niches for needs or demands. The VERY same with PC hardware and Windows. For example, I'm building a desktop that does literally everything from Xbox gaming, being a home server, my telly, media center, gaming rig, and some other things. That partly relies on the hardware. The software is what matters. Windows 8 is what I'll be using on that. You might use Windows 7 as you feel that's proper, but Windows 8 allows me to do more with my hardware. If I want to use apps that would be on my Windows Phone to be on my PC, I can do that. If I want to switch over to the Xbox part, I can. If I want to create a pretty decent Excel spreadsheet, oh yeah. My point is, is that Windows 8 is much like Windows before and more. It can be arranged for different niches and demands. If you want Windows 8 to be primarily gaming, you'd fill a Start Screen full of games. If you want it to be primarily Desktop based, your Start Screen would be filled out with Desktop apps and locations. If you want Windows 8 to be internet content based, your Start Screen will be filled out with Windows Store apps. If you want to do all the above, you'd have all that in the Start Screen.

There really isn't ANYTHING in Windows 8 that doesn't offer or provide an environment to support programs and allow them to function, nor does it impose requirements (other than on the hardware to keep a consistent user experience but this has been Windows since ever) and doesn't ignore it's prime objective.

 

[Ray8]

You're argument is sounding a lot like this (the shop owner): Monty Python - Dead Parrot - YouTube.

Cheers

Ray