Who like me HATES auto checkouts in Supermarkets

[strollin]

You can put all your shopping through as the cheapest loose vegetables.

Like this - Ex-international hockey player stole £450 from Sainsbury's in self-service scam by scanning his groceries as loose onions | Mail Online

It never occurred to me to do this when I use self-checkout. There is an attendant and I don't know how closely they pay attention to what you are doing.

 

[burtie]

I am annoyed at the lengths these corporations are going to for greed. It's getting silly now. My local Tesco first installed some self service checkouts getting rid of cashiers. Then they added even more self service checkouts , and now they have introduced "scan as you shop" so you pick up a handheld scanner and you scan your items as you go around the store. I kid you not. Off course at the end you have to pay and then pack your items, but they had to remove even more cashiers to make room for all this.

I have no problem with corporations making a profit, but here in the UK companies like Tesco pay their staff low wages and also use government schemes forcing unemployed people to stack shelves, without being paid a proper wage in order just the to get their unemployment benefit. If they refuse to do it they don't get their benefit (about £50 a week ). Tesco say that there is a possibility of these people getting a job at the end of it but it's a lie. Tesco are getting free labour, and not paying a penny towards it. And the people being forced to work, with no training have no workers rights or any other perks associated with having a job.

 

[LittleJay]

The Safeway where I shop has self checkout. 2 "15 items or less" checkouts, and the "regular" checkouts. So you don't stand behind someone doing the shopping for a month if you have less then 15 items. A Guy

That is, if they enforce the 15 item policy. I don't know how many times I've been in such a check out line and seen somebody with way more than the allowed amount of items.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Easy rule with ANY QUEUE (or line)

In stores - pick the one with the most MEN in it -- OK might be sexist but practical observation says Men tend to arrange their stuff for easy packing quickly, tend to want to pay with Cash and don't have queries or problems at checkouts and just want to exit the whole process as quickly as possible -- women tend to have their money / credit cards at the bottom of their bags and have to fumble around when they have to pay the bill - and sometimes want items to be removed so they don't exceed a certain amount.

Same for information at Railway stations etc -- men know what train and when they want to get on it - women tend to make catching a train like a really complex operation and spend AGES at the counter even for simple transactions like buying a ticket.

OK a bit sexist - but observation leads me to believe this works about 85% of the time.

(I'm not trying to turn this into a sexist thread BTW).

Actually the 15 item idea is stupid -- just allow Hand baskets only at those checkouts - and also have a CASH ONLY line too -- I can get almost as much into a handbasket as someone with a trolley -- and I can carry it too !!! I'm big and strong enough - and a tiny philippino guard takes one look at me with a nicely balanced basket that would fit into two large car boots !!!when I give him / her that "come to bed look" and just "moves on " !!!!. (I did study Architecture too as well as Engineering -- I can easily balance a supermarket basket !!).

I don't think though that these automated checkouts will replace the humans though there's too many people who don't like them - and if you have cigarette / alcohols / "porno mags" policies / age controls then manual controls still need to be in place.

@Burtie -- IMO it would make much more sense for the supermarkets to invest in technology for ROBOTS to re-stack shelves etc and keep the humans in the actual store interfacing with the customers.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[strollin]

I am annoyed at the lengths these corporations are going to for greed. It's getting silly now. My local Tesco first installed some self service checkouts getting rid of cashiers. Then they added even more self service checkouts , and now they have introduced "scan as you shop" so you pick up a handheld scanner and you scan your items as you go around the store. I kid you not. Off course at the end you have to pay and then pack your items, but they had to remove even more cashiers to make room for all this. ...

Is it necessarily about greed? Businesses exist to make money and things can be quite competitive. Labor is very expensive so perhaps by cutting back on the need for as many cashiers they can keep their costs down and, hopefully, charge us consumers less. Are you willing to pay more for your goods so that these places can hire more cashiers?

I know that people need jobs but being able to do more with less personnel is what businesses need to do to remain competitive.

How about when you shop at an on-line merchant? Brick & mortar stores also need to compete with on-line merchants who don't hire ANY cashiers. Do you boycott those merchants or call them greedy?

 

[SIW2]

I don't want to comment on one company specifically. The general principle you mentioned is the cause of our current economic and social woes. Financial deregulation and the "flexible labour " economic policies espoused in the UK over the last 15 yrs or so are a disaster.

That is not a political comment, it is about economics. Unless we change it drastically we are headed for big trouble. Hard to predict when it will go tits up, but it certainly will.

I have no problem with corporations making a profit, but here in the UK companies like Tesco pay their staff low wages and also use government schemes forcing unemployed people to stack shelves, without being paid a proper wage in order just the to get their unemployment benefit. If they refuse to do it they don't get their benefit (about £50 a week ). Tesco say that there is a possibility of these people getting a job at the end of it but it's a lie. Tesco are getting free labour, and not paying a penny towards it. And the people being forced to work, with no training have no workers rights or any other perks associated with having a job.

 

[LittleJay]

Hi there
Easy rule with ANY QUEUE (or line)

In stores - pick the one with the most MEN in it -- OK might be sexist but practical observation says Men tend to arrange their stuff for easy packing quickly, tend to want to pay with Cash and don't have queries or problems at checkouts and just want to exit the whole process as quickly as possible -- women tend to have their money / credit cards at the bottom of their bags and have to fumble around when they have to pay the bill - and sometimes want items to be removed so they don't exceed a certain amount.

Same for information at Railway stations etc -- men know what train and when they want to get on it - women tend to make catching a train like a really complex operation and spend AGES at the counter even for simple transactions like buying a ticket.

OK a bit sexist - but observation leads me to believe this works about 85% of the time.

(I'm not trying to turn this into a sexist thread BTW).

Actually the 15 item idea is stupid -- just allow Hand baskets only at those checkouts - and also have a CASH ONLY line too -- I can get almost as much into a handbasket as someone with a trolley -- and I can carry it too !!! I'm big and strong enough - and a tiny philippino guard takes one look at me with a nicely balanced basket that would fit into two large car boots !!!when I give him / her that "come to bed look" and just "moves on " !!!!. (I did study Architecture too as well as Engineering -- I can easily balance a supermarket basket !!).

I don't think though that these automated checkouts will replace the humans though there's too many people who don't like them - and if you have cigarette / alcohols / "porno mags" policies / age controls then manual controls still need to be in place.

@Burtie -- IMO it would make much more sense for the supermarkets to invest in technology for ROBOTS to re-stack shelves etc and keep the humans in the actual store interfacing with the customers.

Cheers
jimbo

Unfortunately in my case, it seems like no matter which checkout line I stand in, it is always the slowest. And if I switch to another, than the one I was standing in previously somehow becomes faster.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
not wishing to get into Politics -- highly against the rules and going OT - but since we are dealing with essentially part time workers in supermarkets- the UK has a really EVIL system of employment now called "ZERO HOUR CONTRACTS" - which means that technically you are not unemployed even if on a Monday the employer says there's no work for you this week or maybe only 3 hours etc so no "Dole money" - even at the UK's dreadful rate of around 60 EUR a week ("Job seekers allowance" I think they call it) so you can't even budget for minimum wages -- I don't think these sorts of EVIL practices are allowed in the USA -- might be wrong.

We have problems too with supermarkets "minimising staff" but ZERO HOURS CONTRACTS - I'm not a socialist but if we started having those back home I'd be the first man out to "The Barricades" and I'm sure the whole country would follow.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[SIW2]

There is a lot of that. The worker has to guarantee he will be available for x hours per week. The employer does not guarantee to give them any hours. The few hours they do get will be at minimal pay and breaks. The taxpayer has to subsidise the workers thru income support.

Therefore the taxpayer is subsidising the employers wage bill. That is one reason for the massive increase in wealth being held by a small number of people.

The principle is "externalising costs ". Another way to "externalise costs" is to dump industrial waste into rivers. That saves the company the cost of proper disposal and "externalises" the cleanup costs onto someone else. They aren't allowed to do that any more, but it illustrates the principle.

 

[jimbo45]

I am annoyed at the lengths these corporations are going to for greed. It's getting silly now. My local Tesco first installed some self service checkouts getting rid of cashiers. Then they added even more self service checkouts , and now they have introduced "scan as you shop" so you pick up a handheld scanner and you scan your items as you go around the store. I kid you not. Off course at the end you have to pay and then pack your items, but they had to remove even more cashiers to make room for all this. ...

Is it necessarily about greed? Businesses exist to make money and things can be quite competitive. Labor is very expensive so perhaps by cutting back on the need for as many cashiers they can keep their costs down and, hopefully, charge us consumers less. Are you willing to pay more for your goods so that these places can hire more cashiers?

I know that people need jobs but being able to do more with less personnel is what businesses need to do to remain competitive.

How about when you shop at an on-line merchant? Brick & mortar stores also need to compete with on-line merchants who don't hire ANY cashiers. Do you boycott those merchants or call them greedy?

Hi there
If only it were true.

When was the last time you saw a full attended "Petrol" / Gas station. When self service first started you got a small discount per litre / gallon or whatever the current measurement system is where you are -- now no more - so shedding labour does NOT always mean cheaper prices for the consumer.

@SIW2.
We are good at though is in environmental protection -- any company dumping stuff into rivers etc would have their directors locked up (although there are far worse places to be than in an Icelandic Jail !!) and the company booted straight out of the country and where possible its assets seized.


Cheers
jimbo

 

[LittleJay]

Getting back to original topic of this thread, I actually do like auto check outs precisely because most other people don't and there is almost always one available when I want to check out. I don't buy items, like alcohol that require age verification so I never have any problems, except for when the card reader won't accept my credit card for some reason. But places like Wal-Mart usually have somebody on duty all the time to take care of those kinds of problems.

 

[SIW2]

@Jimbo

Yes we are ok now with the environmental suff. That was just to explain what is meant by externalising costs.

Companies are now doing it by exploiting the workforce and the long suffering taxpayer. That is why the gap between the rich and poor is much greater that it was say 20 yrs ago.

@ Strollin.

Price is a marketing tool. You charge what the customers are prepared to pay.

If you can reduce your costs, you still charge what the customers are prepared to pay. You make more profit.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
sometimes customers HAVE to pay what they get charged -- if you have to eat then you only have three choices - revert to hunting (i.e kill what you eat) , grow your own (not a realistic option for a lot of inner city dwellers in tiny "rabbit sized" apartment blocks) or pay for it an a store / market - and if you don't have enough money you get it from somewhere - usually by some sort of criminal activity.

Companies need also to invest BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY and they can still make a decent profit too. At my local supermarket we have a couple of disabled kids who work in the car park - picking up rubbish and cleaning car windows etc -- good natured kids who are only to happy to be doing this type of stuff -- good the Supermarket keeps them on - and people like them too -- win win situation.

We don't need to maximize every last tiny cent -- a DECENT profit is fine.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[strollin]

Price is a marketing tool. You charge what the customers are prepared to pay.

If you can reduce your costs, you still charge what the customers are prepared to pay. You make more profit.

Yes but you are assuming that the price consumers are willing to pay covers all costs. What if having a full staff leaves you in a position where the price you need to charge in order to make a profit is more than the consumer is willing to pay?

 

[strollin]

...
Hi there
If only it were true.

When was the last time you saw a full attended "Petrol" / Gas station. When self service first started you got a small discount per litre / gallon or whatever the current measurement system is where you are -- now no more - so shedding labour does NOT always mean cheaper prices for the consumer. ...
Cheers
jimbo

In the state of Oregon, self-service gas stations are banned.

As far as your argument that shedding labor doesn't always mean lower prices to the consumer, that's true, which is why I used the term, hopefully. However, lower prices doesn't necessarily mean that you see the price actually go down, it can also mean they don't need to raise the price even though other costs have risen.

 

[jimbo45]

...
Hi there
If only it were true.

When was the last time you saw a full attended "Petrol" / Gas station. When self service first started you got a small discount per litre / gallon or whatever the current measurement system is where you are -- now no more - so shedding labour does NOT always mean cheaper prices for the consumer. ...
Cheers
jimbo

In the state of Oregon, self-service gas stations are banned.

As far as your argument that shedding labor doesn't always mean lower prices to the consumer, that's true, which is why I used the term, hopefully. However, lower prices doesn't necessarily mean that you see the price actually go down, it can also mean they don't need to raise the price even though other costs have risen.

Hi there.

Actually self service gas stations are not too bad an idea in some places -- in the middle of winter it would be totally uneconomic to provide a complete fully serviced manned building operational for 24 hrs a day seven days a week where only about 17 customers a WEEK would use it -- in sparse Nordic rural populations in the middle of winter you are glad to have these "auto" facilities available - unmanned - and operational by using credit / debit card - basically these pumps are just single or double set of pumps with a credit / debit card facility. - You don't want to be short of Gas in these places -- you probably won't make it to morning if you do run out !!!.

-- not sure how your State of Oregon would manage selling gas in those types of scenarios - or can people only buy gas in the larger cities during "basic business hours".

Supermarkets are a totally different issue though. There's no reason for them to have ALL automatic checkouts - some people like them - then supply a few but keep the other system for the vast majority that prefer it -- I don't think we need to shed any tears over profits being raked up by major Supermarket chains nearly everywhere -- and isn't time we stopped regarding issues like "Our profits are 10% LESS than last year" as being a business failure -- who really cares if they are STILL raking in MILLIONS of Dollars, Pounds, Euros, Roubles etc etc.

Basic Capitalism has its faults - other systems have been tried but don't really work except on TINY scales - we need to adapt the system we have that essentially works - but give it a much needed Social Conscience - so if it means slightly less profits but giving more people - especially at the lower levels of skill jobs - in the long run EVERYBODY benefits - yes - even the Supermarkets - if they can just forget their balance sheet for a few days. !!!

(I remember the last time I was in a Bar in California chatting to some guys who were taking me to a Baseball game later - that their main worry wasn't actually the possibility or fear of losing their jobs but the fact that if they lost their jobs their healthcare for them and their families would vanish -- and these were two relatively well paid individuals living in one of the most prosperous areas in by far the wealthiest nation on the planet --(it will still take China around till 2250 or even longer to approach the basic wealth of the USA).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[pcRat]

I don't use the self-checkouts. I see no reason to make a cashier unemployed while the big store saves money on wages, workmens compensation insurance, matching social security tax.
All those savings don't lower consumer costs, they build more stores and increase the exec bonuses.

 

[my2cents]

I don't use the self-checkouts. I see no reason to make a cashier unemployed while the big store saves money on wages, workmens compensation insurance, matching social security tax.
All those savings don't lower consumer costs, they build more stores and increase the exec bonuses.

All very good points; however, I always use the auto checkouts because they are always less crowded and I usually only have a few items, so they work for me.

 

[SIW2]

I just stood in line at the supermarket. Only 3 or 4 mins of my time. I am prepared to do that to help save our society.

I explained to the cashier why. The guy behind me agreed. He said , "It wasn't like this 15 years ago". It seems a few of the public are aware of the problem.

If we use the auto check out, the supermarket claims we "chose" to do that which justifies them cutting staff and hours. Fewer jobs, more of those jobs that remain part time minimal pay and no rights, more subsidy being paid by the taxpayer, more social unease.

That is why there is a growing gap between the super rich and everyone else.

"Flexible labour policies" are the problem.

 

[my2cents]

I just stood in line at the supermarket. Only 3 or 4 mins of my time. I am prepared to do that to help save our society.

I explained to the cashier why. The guy behind me agreed. He said , "It wasn't like this 15 years ago". It seems a few of the public are aware of the problem.

If we use the auto check out, the supermarket claims we "chose" to do that which justifies them cutting staff and hours. Fewer jobs, more of those jobs that remain part time minimal pay and no rights, more subsidy being paid by the taxpayer, more social unease.

That is why there is a growing gap between the super rich and everyone else.

"Flexible labour policies" are the problem.

Agreed; however, in my case, where I shop, the checkout clerks are actually lazy and you can see them "watching each other" to make sure they go just "slow enough" to not get the next checkout. They love to sit on their backsides and read a book or magazine and I have never heard them complain about doing so. This is the ACME chain where I shop and they are the laziest employees I have ever met. AND don't even both to tray an buzz the meat dept because all they ever do is talk about "union issues."

However, on the other hand, Wegman's is incredibly different. The checkout clerks "are required" to stand out front of their register "and encourage" you to enter so there is never a need for me to even consider auto chekout when I'm there because the lines go so fast.

So, waht a difference a store makes! I've even seen the ACME slouches turn off their lights when you approach their checkout line as they continue to read a magazine off the rack. IMHO, those jobs are not worth saving; period!