What I think Windows 8 should look like...

[Arpan]

I'm enjoying the Metro look and feel. Since it is in 1st place of order, the desktop/start menu called the Metro Start Screen implantation will eventually push out the legacy desktop as it did with the Start Button and Start Menu. I say good bye and long riddance!

For the sake of not writing a long post, refer here on my thoughts: http://www.eightforums.com/general-...s-controversial-decision-removal-start-2.html

The word "logic" hardly applies in that title.

It is quite extraordinary that some folk cannot grasp the fact not everyone uses their machine the same way, or for the same things.

Hello SIW2, you might not have read the title carefully. It says "MY" Logic not just Logic. I gave my logic, everybody are entitled to give their own logic why to use or not use metro.

 

[besb]

SIW2

Isn't that pretty much what Apple does tho?

I cant really answer that with any real authority, I last used a MAC in anger in 1995.
However I have just the Mountain Lion launch info and yes it appears so.
Apart from claiming it's the "best thing since sliced bread" they highlight the integration with the
Ipad and Iphone and the use of the cloud for syncing all devices.
Also note that it is only available from the Apple store.

 

[rich4421972]

HippsieGypsie, I can't agree with you on any way whatsoever.

http://www.eightforums.com/general-...s-controversial-decision-removal-start-2.html

Ok, so, what if all traditional programs are written in the Metro style as a Metro app or more appropriately a M$ app? That would solve the whole problem, wouldn't it? I believe this is what M$ has in mind with this drastic change of an OS called Windows 8. All programs will eventually be M$ apps. They are being written as you read now. Imagine the possibilities here. They can totally do away with the desktop all together. One will open an app in stand alone window or -> Open another with an option to snap along side -> Open another app with the option of a 3rd pane -> Open another for a 4th pane and so on. Just like the big screen TVs with multi-pane viewing a zillion channels in live time. Or perform on multiple monitors. (I know there's a long way to go so far as snapping and multi-monitors, so I don't want to hear the slack. I think this will be worked out in the future)

Therefore to answer your question -> no. What I'm saying is that all apps will eventually be written in the Metro interface and there will be no need of a legacy desktop as we know it. It will be a totally new kind of "window" or "means" where one is in no need of a desktop. What will a desktop profit if all programs were written in the Metro style interface (as we are calling it now) or for a better name of description -> a M$ app interface? Also, all apps will only be purchased and added through their store.

Isn't this already the Apple business model? All programs must be purchased online from the Apple store? (the exception would be the Windows store app). Why not just buy OS X Lion and allof its applets (that do cost money and are locked in)?

On the other hand, the Metro development environment is wide open for new developers and coders.

Pick up a manual and start working.

You could do all the things you want to and even provide it free. Maybe there ought to be a forum for freelance app developers. Better yet, a few alternate interfaces for Metro

The sour grapes on this (as yet beta) operating system seem to be based on past associations with Microsoft. The difference is in a choice to work (and improve) an imperfect system or to buy into a model that is arguably worse.

 

[besb]

Hi HippsieGypsie
I posted that with my tongue in my cheek as I wanted to see your reaction.

I did realize actually realize that you were talking about evolution and totally agree that over time (years) things will change.
But such movement is very slow forgetting about M$ updating OFFICE but consider the of millions of programs out there.
There has not been that great an interest in even updating their software to 64bit and in some cases we still have to run it in XP compatibility mode.
Now here comes the curved ball
We won't be using "touch" we will be using vocal commands and retina tracking.
I have tried voice commands on and off over the last 10 years without great success (training takes to long) but is improving considerably. (meanwhile I still talk and shout at the damn screen especially when I get a string of reminders asking if I really want to close a Program etc.)
Change within a corporation is primarily considered as a financial issue of costs of ownership versus benefits.
At one time we used consider that over 5 to 10 years. I have been round that block a number of times in the past.
Cetralising mainframes with remote access then introduction of minis computers and swapping out macs for PCs.
However the parameters have changed the entire commercial system being market driven relative to stock price and this years profit. Training costs have to be written off in the year of implementation not spread.

Resistance to change, again I am not an expert in this field although I was once described as an engineer of change.
A simple sample of two .
1 My Wife - change any thing she has to do at your peril
2 My granddaughter - Gee this fun as she swaps between Android, Ipad, PC at the blink of an eye.
It is relative to learning capacity and the older the bulk of people get; in general the more set in their ways they become.
Putting that into a corporate context (ignoring the IT industry itself) the majority are querying a database and simply form filling to process an order or similar activity. It is when you change that you get enormous cock-ups.

Your question on multi-core processors would normally illicit a multi-page answer but here is not the place.
I have tried to simplify this down to a two state example.
take a single core processor running two jobs 2 programs (P1 and P2) and an operating system (OS).
P1 is running and gets an interrupt from P2 saying it wants to do some work P1 is suspended and P2 gets a turn
this is then possibly interrupted by the OS saying wants to read from disk etc. the one processor is sharing its workload on a time share basis.
2-8 core processors can allocate a core to each of the activities running in parallel. with limited delays.
This is also compounded by further activities called multi-threading, prefetch and other activities.
The result is shown up in benchmarks whereby say a 6 core system running at 3GHz outperforms a single core at 4Ghz
completing a number of concurrent applications in a quicker overall time.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I did realize actually realize that you were talking about evolution and totally agree that over time (years) things will change.
But such movement is very slow forgetting about M$ updating OFFICE but consider the of millions of programs out there.

Yes, change is slow, but, this OS called 8 seems to be a bit of a shocker to many. We mostly hear "Why did they leave that out? Why did they add that? Why did they change that? That sucks! They shouldn't do that!" Why? Why? Why? Complain! Complain! Complain! Because they are making a drastic change in this OS to head in a different direction. In the end I believe it will be less complex and more efficient to use.

I'm not an iMaccer. I'm not much familiar with them, although I've seen some via friends and relatives. Some few on this forum are stating that 8 is getting to be similar to iMe. If it is, so be it if it's a better idea.

We won't be using "touch" we will be using vocal commands and retina tracking.

I agree that we will, but, are you out of your gourde stating that here? People will think your nuts! We that have been around longer find it difficult to convey to the younger the changes that will be occurring when in fact it's mostly the younger that are invoking the change through invention. If someone told me 40 years ago that we would be using the tech that we have today I would've had my doubts.

Resistance to change, again I am not an expert in this field although I was once described as an engineer of change.
A simple sample of two .
1 My Wife - change any thing she has to do at your peril
2 My granddaughter - Gee this fun as she swaps between Android, Ipad, PC at the blink of an eye.
It is relative to learning capacity and the older the bulk of people get; in general the more set in their ways they become.

You are a man of great understanding! Humorous the way you describe things. How true that is! Although set in some of my ways professionally, I try to remain young at heart. I have to remain open minded in new building tech, otherwise I flounder. Keep in mind that most B-boomers are retiring and the younger, such as your grand-daughter, will be taking over.

Although a little familiar with it, the processor/software subject sounds be a real nightmare to me. I know this is the core issue of computing. I'll read up on it.

Thanks for posting answers and views, besb.

2-a-roo for now.....

 

[HippsieGypsie]

HippsieGypsie, I can't agree with you on any way whatsoever.

http://www.eightforums.com/general-...s-controversial-decision-removal-start-2.html



Therefore to answer your question -> no. What I'm saying is that all apps will eventually be written in the Metro interface and there will be no need of a legacy desktop as we know it. It will be a totally new kind of "window" or "means" where one is in no need of a desktop. What will a desktop profit if all programs were written in the Metro style interface (as we are calling it now) or for a better name of description -> a M$ app interface? Also, all apps will only be purchased and added through their store.

Isn't this already the Apple business model? All programs must be purchased online from the Apple store? (the exception would be the Windows store app). Why not just buy OS X Lion and allof its applets (that do cost money and are locked in)?

On the other hand, the Metro development environment is wide open for new developers and coders.

Pick up a manual and start working.

You could do all the things you want to and even provide it free. Maybe there ought to be a forum for freelance app developers. Better yet, a few alternate interfaces for Metro

The sour grapes on this (as yet beta) operating system seem to be based on past associations with Microsoft. The difference is in a choice to work (and improve) an imperfect system or to buy into a model that is arguably worse.

Yes, this seems to be the Apple business model. So what if M$ is yielding to it? As a building business owner, if I see someone doing business in what I think is a better way, waddaya think I'm going to do? Stand back and watch a competitor pass me up?

I don't care to answer the rest of your post for I can see you just don't like the change for the better.

 

[FSeal]

Yes, this seems to be the Apple business model. So what if M$ is yielding to it? As a building business owner, if I see someone doing business in what I think is a better way, waddaya think I'm going to do? Stand back and watch a competitor pass me up?

I don't care to answer the rest of your post for I can see you just don't like the change for the better.

If you are talking tablets and phones then sure, but desktops? Completely wrong...

If the Apple business model were all that then all us windows desktop users would be OSX users. Were not and were not for a reason WE DON'T LIKE THE APPLE BUSINESS MODEL. It is NOT a change for the "better" on the desktop in any way.

If MS is just going to become Apple (As Balmer says they are) why not just use Apple since they are already very good at that model. MS will always be second fiddle in that space. But Apple can't come close to touching a lot of things that make Windows great. We are losing some of what makes Windows great as MS moves over to be just another Apple clone.

Windows has like 95% of the desktop market and they are just willing to throw that all away to be more Apple like (And as I have said before, after Windows 8 ships, OSX will be more Windows like than Windows!)

There's nothing better about it at all. They /could/ have done it right (Make the metro environment a launchable, sizeable, placeable, full-screenable app on the desktop). But they really did it in the worst way possible A desktop is NOT a tablet and NEVER will be, it should not be treated like one.

 

[rich4421972]

If only the principles of economics could provide everyone with the highest quality product-- I suppose that is
the theory of capitalism but here I think it is not true.

We don't really know if Apple's model of closed software development will make OS X "better" than Windows. After using Metro for a while, I have looked seriously at buying an iMac. The problem is, however, in Apple's growing reputation for using inexpensive parts to make a hyper-expensive finished product. The result is a computer that is likely to fail within a year of its purchase date. Some Mac lovers don't think this is a problem (perhaps because each new Mac is smoother and flashier than its predecessor). There is a continuing interest in eye candy desktops which not only run slower but run fewer applications. Apple's answer is to tell users to buy more Apps from the app store.

If Microsoft did this, there would probably be no end to the complaints of people who only want to use their computers to do and make things the way they like. I think that this is the basic reason why Metro is not favored by some of its users: Microsoft is not a gadget making company and they must find a way of retaining their most faithful customers. I guess if Metro was a little more stable and the "desktop" was a little more like the one from Win7 OR Vista, they might retain a few.

I don't think it is entirely logical to compare Apple to Microsoft. They are vastly different companies at opposite ends of their corporate lives (MS at the elderly Behemoth stage and Macintosh at the "agile tiger" youthful stage). And yet Mac's insistence on ruling their world through the app store resembles the actions of an older, more insecure company.

MS does not have to wait for anybody because they invented and own the code of their own operating system. Perhaps this is the true problem with Metro: "With the intellectual and business resources to do virtually anything, "Why couldn't they (MS) do something better?" I doubt very much that MS will lose many of their users because of Metro, but Apple will lose some its customers, if MS can act smartly with Win8 and make it a stable workhorse like most of their other offerings.

Sometimes I really like Metro and look forward to making some of my own apps for it. As developers, what else do we have to look forward to?

 

[FSeal]

It's not that metro itself is totally useless. It's a nice idea that you have this environment where you can write apps for phones and tablets a the same time (course same for apple and android) and ALSO be able to use them on the desktop when you want to. That is awesome. It's the entire turning of the desktop INTO a tablet that is the horror.

So the entire Metro phone/tablet/desktop environment idea could have been put into place but in a MUCH nicer way on the desktop without feeling like MS truly is putting a gun to our head about it. Because yes.. where is there else to go? Nowhere. Sooner or later we will all /have/ to xxxx it

 

[rich4421972]

It's not that metro itself is totally useless. It's a nice idea that you have this environment where you can write apps for phones and tablets a the same time (course same for apple and android) and ALSO be able to use them on the desktop when you want to. That is awesome. It's the entire turning of the desktop INTO a tablet that is the horror.

So the entire Metro phone/tablet/desktop environment idea could have been put into place but in a MUCH nicer way on the desktop without feeling like MS truly is putting a gun to our head about it. Because yes.. where is there else to go? Nowhere. Sooner or later we will all /have/ to xxxx it

I'm not really sure if MS is holding a gun to our heads--I think it just seems that way. True, I do not consider OS X, Linux, eComstation, BSD and etc. to be competitive options, but I do wish that Metro was a little snappier and I am hoping that thisrelease preview is only a rough example of the final product