This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[Night Hawk]

When you can find them! Without a Start button you hope the Crawler tool bar will appear when moving the cursor around. With the RP still on a VM no such bar comes up! Lately the Start screen will no longer appear in the lower left corner there either showing a degree of unreliability with these items.

Even at first the Crawler bar was a fight to get that to even come up moving the cursor back and forth as well as additional steps required to do the common tasks. In actuality like I was saying before all MS did was create a desktop variation on the Surface RT version and simply call it 8 while not being an actual latest desktop version. Their goal was the mobile market.

 

[mdmd]

With the RP still on a VM no such bar comes up! Lately the Start screen will no longer appear in the lower left corner there either showing a degree of unreliability with these items.

Many have tried 8 in a VM and have been very disappointed, frustrated, annoyed, and pissed off to say the least. Using 8 in a VM is a terrible idea. 8 is all about the edges. Without the edges, 8 is incomplete. The SS will always be available by hotspot if not installed in a VM. Also, all these dualities of booting scenarios are also a terrible idea. How can you image a multi boot system safely unless you want to image several Operating Systems at once? If you think the UI is awful, that is ok. (oops, perhaps not ok, but What can I say?)
Just for kicks, I downloaded Start8 and Classic Shell. ... quickly became frustrated.
They were both uninstalled quickly.
I doubt MS will revert to the past. ...

What I am thinking, is why Windows (or Win32), the desktop, the shell, is still located in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon...
Still using the Windows NT model?

 

[PaulGo]

I had the edges using Oracle VM Virtualbox.

 

[lehnerus2000]

It depends on how you measure success

You can spend all day on the VBox RP install and never even see that popup regardless of how many times you move the cursor over this or that spot showing a guaranted to fail method for the main items besides programs you need access to!

I had the edges using Oracle VM Virtualbox.

You get the secret hotspots if you use a VHD.

Also, all these dualities of booting scenarios are also a terrible idea. How can you image a multi boot system safely unless you want to image several Operating Systems at once?

Unless you constantly resize/move your partitions around that isn't necessary.
I've never had a problem imaging a single OS partition and restoring it using Macrium Reflect.

Of course just to be on the "safe side", you should image all of your operating systems at the same time.

If you constantly resize/move your partitions around, just image the entire HDD.
"Too complex?"


As for W8 being a flop, it depends on how you measure success.

A lot of Windows users consider Vista to be a flop, compared to other Windows OS market shares.
It was a huge success, if you compare it to Apple and Linux operating systems (even if you combine their Desktop OS market shares).

It will definitely exceed Apple and Linux Desktop operating systems market shares.

The question is, will it exceed XP's and W7's Desktop operating systems market shares?

 

[mdmd]

If you constantly resize/move your partitions around, just image the entire HDD. "Too complex?"

No. This is a preference. I've done enough multi booting with 95, 98 NT4, Linux etc... Not interested anymore.
If one has 2 or 3 systems, now your image could be somewhat large. Are you ok with a 40GB image? If just Windows 7 and Linux, well Linux is not that large, usually. With preference, I like to keep complete system images down to 15GB or less. I've never used Macrium, but Acronis can do ok for 12GB entire HDD in about 4 minutes. I am just to old and tired to experiment with unneeded systems. I used them all. Even 7. Don't like 7. Dislike the start menu. ha, ha...

 

[blackcherry]

After trying Windows 8 preview extensively in a virtual mode I have come to the conclusion I would not install it on my two PCs even if Microsoft gave it to me for free.

LOL. And why is that?

 

[area 66]

After trying Windows 8 preview extensively in a virtual mode I have come to the conclusion I would not install it on my two PCs even if Microsoft gave it to me for free.

LOL. And why is that?

Because he don't like it, this is right no ?

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

I don't see the complaints about shutdown. From the Windows "Start" (Formerly known as Metro) Pretty simple in my opinion
Right click on your account picture, sign off >>>Shut Down. Why is that so hard?

 

[shaggyskunk]

I'm still getting used to win 8, but After I installed it 4 days ago, I tried the PC Refresh tool in General - Settings - After the pc rebooted the product key for my newly purchased product was no longer valid and my copy of win 8 required activation!!! It took 5+ hours on the phone with ms tech - remote assistance -for him to successfully regenerate a product key!!!
The explaination given as to how/why this happened was "microsoft is very sensitive to piracy and changes to drivers etc could result in this happening" WHAT!!!?????Has this happened to anyone else?

Secondly - has anyone been able to download and install samsung Quick Starter? I get "updated failed (-10) ??

Thirdly - I've tried taking a screen shot or screen capture with the windows key + prt sc , from what I have read, this should take a screeen shot that you will find in your photos - can't find any?

Thanks

 

[machare]

Thirdly - I've tried taking a screen shot or screen capture with the windows key + prt sc , from what I have read, this should take a screeen shot that you will find in your photos - can't find any?

Alt + Prt Screen puts the current window into your clipboard which you can then paste into paint or whatever.
Ctrl + Prt Screen puts the complete display contents into your clipboard.

Both work on W8

 

[cluberti]

Don't know if any of you use OneNote, but once it's installed (and run for the first time), you can use Win+S to take a screenshot of anything, even modern/metro applications. Just a thought.

 

[Night Hawk]

You can spend all day on the VBox RP install and never even see that popup regardless of how many times you move the cursor over this or that spot showing a guaranted to fail method for the main items besides programs you need access to!

I had the edges using Oracle VM Virtualbox.

You get the secret hotspots if you use a VHD.

Also, all these dualities of booting scenarios are also a terrible idea. How can you image a multi boot system safely unless you want to image several Operating Systems at once?

Unless you constantly resize/move your partitions around that isn't necessary.
I've never had a problem imaging a single OS partition and restoring it using Macrium Reflect.

Of course just to be on the "safe side", you should image all of your operating systems at the same time.

If you constantly resize/move your partitions around, just image the entire HDD.
"Too complex?"


As for W8 being a flop, it depends on how you measure success.

A lot of Windows users consider Vista to be a flop, compared to other Windows OS market shares.
It was a huge success, if you compare it to Apple and Linux operating systems (even if you combine their Desktop OS market shares).

It will definitely exceed Apple and Linux Desktop operating systems market shares.

The question is, will it exceed XP's and W7's Desktop operating systems market shares?

I'm not so worried about 8 market shares since MS tossed the Surface RT version's gui on top of what would be an updated from 7 on MinWin kernel and called it a new desktop version? NADA! Most are taking one look at it and shunning away from any possible upgrade into it from some older version where things were kept simple! not seeing hidden menus(and hidden MS agendas?)).

As far as moving partitions around? I have to wonder where you are coming from with that. The VMs are on a 7 host while 8 had been installed as a stand alone install to the second OS drive here with the CP at first. The boot entry for the CP was added into the 7 BCD store plus the need to boot from the CP dvd to repair or update the mbr with 8 entries from being the newer version.

The same at first was also seen with the RP until trying out the PC Refresh option which then saw a new entry for 7 automatically created and of course lead to seeing numerous errors on both drives. Yet every other dual with the previous version has never run into this type of situation where both versions suddenly started freezing up solid when first going to click on anything after Windows finished loading. BUGGY! is how I have to describe that one. Plus 8 unlike 7 would not adjust to the change from Native ide to AHCI which 7 saw immediate successful results!

The CP went right onto VM Player but not on VBox while the RP on the other hand refused to go on either VM Player or the subsequett Linux version of VBox when the RP was replaced by a Linux distro. 7 saw an immediate install on the Linux VM without issue! Overall I have to agree with a good number of people so far who have been "disappointed" with 8 so far! I keep hearing from those looking to get back to Vista or 7 they had replaced with 8 after a short period of time.

As for the RP on the VBox install it was working at first as far as the Start popup and Apps&Settings bar appearing once you were able to find "just the right spot" that is. The VM install was kept on as a reference install not as a second OS. I've had several other Windows and Linux VMs that never once saw these types of problems unless they failed to load and simply needed to be replaced.

From the total assessment so far I have to frown at 8 from not simply seeing a gui change but from working with it and finding it wasn't a suitable OS when compared to how much I have been able to pound on 7 and still see a working OS over the last 3yrs. If 8 on the other hand was actually a newer desktop not Tablet version it would be have been considered for being a second OS since I have no interest in dumping 7 any time soon! Those are the hard facts there.

I'm still getting used to win 8, but After I installed it 4 days ago, I tried the PC Refresh tool in General - Settings - After the pc rebooted the product key for my newly purchased product was no longer valid and my copy of win 8 required activation!!! It took 5+ hours on the phone with ms tech - remote assistance -for him to successfully regenerate a product key!!!
The explaination given as to how/why this happened was "microsoft is very sensitive to piracy and changes to drivers etc could result in this happening" WHAT!!!?????Has this happened to anyone else?

Secondly - has anyone been able to download and install samsung Quick Starter? I get "updated failed (-10) ??

Thirdly - I've tried taking a screen shot or screen capture with the windows key + prt sc , from what I have read, this should take a screeen shot that you will find in your photos - can't find any?

Thanks

Welcome to EightForums! shaggyskunk

Apparently 8 has no repair install option only a full fresh install option with the PC Refresh. And yes MS has been getting more tuff as far as activation with the product key needing verfication just to see 8 installed.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Screenshots

Thirdly - I've tried taking a screen shot or screen capture with the windows key + prt sc , from what I have read, this should take a screeen shot that you will find in your photos - can't find any?

Alt + Prt Screen puts the current window into your clipboard which you can then paste into paint or whatever.
Ctrl + Prt Screen puts the complete display contents into your clipboard.

Both work on W8

"Alt + Prt Scr" takes a screenshot of the current window and places it in your clipboard (as machare stated).

You should only have to press "Prt Scr" to send a screenshot to your clipboard.
If you are using a laptop (or have a non-standard keyboard) you may have to press another key to activate the "Prt Scr" key.

"Win + Prt Scr" worked for me.
The screenshot should appear in the Pictures Library.

As far as moving partitions around? I have to wonder where you are coming from with that. The VMs are on a 7 host while 8 had been installed as a stand alone install to the second OS drive here with the CP at first. The boot entry for the CP was added into the 7 BCD store plus the need to boot from the CP dvd to repair or update the mbr with 8 entries from being the newer version.

That was in response to mdmd's comment about multi-booting (not yours).

I have ~20 VMs for VMware Workstation, so I know that partitions aren't really involved (the same is true for VHDs).

The same at first was also seen with the RP until trying out the PC Refresh option which then saw a new entry for 7 automatically created and of course lead to seeing numerous errors on both drives.

I'd never risk using those refresh options.

When I had a look at them in W8 CP(?), they both "helpfully" offered to delete all 4.5 TB of data from my PC!

 

[Max Peck]

Let me go on record as saying my previous attitude about Win8 was wrong.

I tested it for a year in a number of VM's and really, really thought it was bad news. But until I installed the released version on my development machine as an upgrade and saw it take the very complex system setup I have and leave everything intact ... I have to say I am very impressed. I regarded this thing as useless to a desktop user. Useless it is NOT.

The desktop is every bit as functional as it was. Absolutely no problems at all. It's not nearly as ugly without the "Aero" as I thought.

Metro? Believe it or not, I am finding myself getting accustomed to what I originally thought was butt-ugly. In my testing I didn't give the interface time to settle down with the things I use. The "live tiles" are really very nice. When I'm not using the machine I just tap the Windows key and it sits with Metro quietly updating the tiles where I can, at a glance, see a lot of things that are pertinent. Then all I do is click on something that catches my interest and I'm either sent back to the desktop or into a Metro program to deal with it.

I just flat like the thing now. My system is fast, stable and feels more dimensional than it did before. I am totally flabbergasted. I saw this as a major flop. I take hat-in-hand to the entire board and again say I was flat-out wrong. This is turning out to be the best machine environment I've ever seen on a PC. I am not impressed easily, either.

Jimbo ... I think you saw it before most of us did!

As to the tablet experience, that I haven't tried yet. I have iPhones and iPads so I probably won't go there since I'm pretty well invested in the iOS side personally. I may buy a Surface for development work, though. I just bought a book on Metro development so I can update my skills. This thing may really have a future. It's not perfect yet, but I'm quickly beginning to "see" it.

Later guys!

-Max

 

[Night Hawk]

As far as moving partitions around? I have to wonder where you are coming from with that. The VMs are on a 7 host while 8 had been installed as a stand alone install to the second OS drive here with the CP at first. The boot entry for the CP was added into the 7 BCD store plus the need to boot from the CP dvd to repair or update the mbr with 8 entries from being the newer version.

That was in response to mdmd's comment about multi-booting (not yours).

I have ~20 VMs for VMware Workstation, so I know that partitions aren't really involved (the same is true for VHDs).

The same at first was also seen with the RP until trying out the PC Refresh option which then saw a new entry for 7 automatically created and of course lead to seeing numerous errors on both drives.

I'd never risk using those refresh options.

When I had a look at them in W8 CP(?), they both "helpfully" offered to delete all 4.5 TB of data from my PC!

I was aware of that. I never go strictly by what I see on any VM as far as any new OS is concerned but go by results from a normal install to a physical drive where I can look over everything.

As for the PC Refresh that's only good for those who keep everything backed elsewhere completely and suddenly find their 8 install virus laden or other and simply need a fast clean install. But I still had to see what that was about as part of examining 8 and still haven't worked with the option for a full system image and seeing one restored.

Now as far as far as mdmd's statement about small image sizes Acronis T.I. does an excellent job not only creating and restoring image backups but compresses full images down much further then seen with the built-in option found in Windows. A for a clean install of Vista and 7 they won't take up much space with the largest on a 7 laptop coming in at under 35gb with bloatwares when backing up a brand new model as well as the clean install seen on an older Vista model.

The option in 7 would see the same take up at least 85gb or more there. Both are reliable as ever while Acronis is great 3rd party alternative.

Despite the dissatifaction here with 8 so far MS still threw some interesting items in 8 not seen with any previous versions however. One in particular would have been well needed for XP being the newly renamed MS Security Essential to Windows Defender now included in Windows which lies dormant once you install your regular av program on. That's a first to see any av/antimalware protection that actually works thrown in!

The other is the obvious step on security with the new Lock screen while not surprizingly taking off from security on other portables as far as the idea however over just seeing the enter password option. The "Windows" shade is what you click to pull up is another more of an innovating ideal while the rest sadly suffers.

Generally through the years I waited to see what the next version would offer which would be better then the previous until 8 came along. I knew a two OS system would be likely following the instant approval of 7 knowing that would be a tuff act to follow if they did not follow the improved trend learning and improving on 7's ideas.

They didn't learn and grow from 7 however and substituted their focus on the Surface and it's OS using the desktop variation as the filler for not having a new desktop version. Some basic core improvements as far as speeding up the boot time, new compatibility issues despite and improvement in hardware detections and a better layer of security trashed by the RT gui.

The Metro itself was a fast substitute name for what MS calls the "Modern" according to some sources. It's still going to be an RT touchscreen gui tossed onto a desktop kernel while not ideal for the second OS here to work along with 7. When someone mentioned solving the OpenGL issues on the 32bit 8 using certain ATI drivers if you have an ATI/AMD driven card I had to point out what about the 64bit side? I ran the 7 drivers since no 8 drivers were avaialble for the CP or RP. but still saw the same OpenGL errors despite which catalyst version was used!

Too many down sides to make up for those few up sides!

 

[Ziggy925]

I started the thread "WTF" and couldn't agree more. It's obvious MS is playing catch up with Apple, as far as the GUI goes, but up until now I always prefered MS over Apple. I'm willing to hang in there and figure things out, but you shouldn't have to use Google to figure out how to do basic things with an OS. I installed Clasic Shell just to get down to business, but I'm not happy I had to do that. And while I can see some users making the switch from Windows 7, If I had a business with a bunch of computers you would have to hold a gun to my head to get me to upgrade(?).

 

[Night Hawk]

Well here's another one for you! Maybe someone here can answer how to edit the MS store section? Lately someone from a non profit institution was asking how to edit that area since there no options such as right clicking on a Start screen button to unpin anything there! The school wants no commercial items for school pcs where they have their own school apps for students apparently.

It's things like that as well as other annoyances that will prove to be the largest turnoff as far as 8 is concerned. While some may feel great runnng 8 they may be accustomed to IPadding, IPhonees, Androidisms, and other hand helds for texting and generally are not pc desktop/workstation orientated to begin with.

The title of your thread would seem to sum up just what the long time from Legacy days to present desktop user is being faced with as far as the drastic gui change made. You found the same thing yourself that you shouldn't have to have the need for a 3rd party add-ons in order to get back to a more traditional form of desktop OS to begin with. But MS slacked off on offering at least the option for some type of standard desktop or RT gui in some way such as when going to install or upgrade or later once 8 was on.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I'm not trying to convince you ...

I was aware of that. I never go strictly by what I see on any VM as far as any new OS is concerned but go by results from a normal install to a physical drive where I can look over everything.

Based on your system specs, you should have been able to test W8 on a VHD.

I couldn't create W8 VMs using VMware Workstation 7.
The install would fail after a few seconds (HAL error?).

I used VHDs for every preview and they behaved exactly the way I expect a physical install to work.
I got a boot menu that allowed me to select W8, W7 or XP.
I even had to install my hardware drivers from the appropriate CDs.

Too many down sides to make up for those few up sides!

I installed "Classic Shell" in W8 Ent and apart from the awful colour scheme and lack of customisation, it was like W7, except that it used less RAM.

I could tolerate (standard) W8 if I was forced to use it.

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone else) to buy W8.
I have no plans to buy

 

[blackcherry]

After trying Windows 8 preview extensively in a virtual mode I have come to the conclusion I would not install it on my two PCs even if Microsoft gave it to me for free.

LOL. And why is that?

Because he don't like it, this is right no ?

I was just curious. Ok to ask no?

 

[Mystere]

Well here's another one for you! Maybe someone here can answer how to edit the MS store section? Lately someone from a non profit institution was asking how to edit that area since there no options such as right clicking on a Start screen button to unpin anything there! The school wants no commercial items for school pcs where they have their own school apps for students apparently.

What do you mean by "Edit" the Windows Store? That doesn't even make sense to me. You can't "Edit" the iTunes AppStore. You can't "Edit" Google Play. Even if I understood what you were trying to get at, i'm pretty sure this is nothing unique to Microsoft and its app store.

You can disable access to the store, this is done in group policy, and enforced on computers joined to the domain. That way users can't install any new apps, or even go into the store.