This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[SIW2]

LOL PP, that is what I meant.

I saw a video ( sort of ) - but I didn't see an awesome video.

Unless the poster meant awesome in the sense that it inspires dread of what is to come.

 

[BarnabasSackett]

Remember the brick phone?

It evolved into the IPhone of today!

Do we miss the "Brick Phone"? Hell no! Most people don't even know what it is.

It only seen it in old movies

I wouldn't call it an evolution, more of a merger. As phone tech got smaller, the brick evolved into the flip. Then someone came up with the idea of mixing a phone with a PDA and now we have the smart phone. Roughly half of cell phone users still do not have a smart phone.

The brick phone is not missed because it was replaced by something less cumbersome. Just like the command line is not missed by the unwashed masses because they view the GUI as less cumbersome. The Metro interface might be less of a problem for people who only use five or six applications. I watch people trying to find stuff on their iPads and it is downright comical. I don't want to be doing that on my PC.

My Win 7 desktop is setup to look like Win 98. Yeah. I don't want aero or any of that stuff. I want the stability of a good operating system but I don't want to have to spend weeks figuring out how to run my applications. Windows 7 did not require a fundamental change in the way that I work. From what I've seen of Win 8, that is not the case.

 

[Night Hawk]

Interesting point about changing the fundamentals. In the long run however I doubt you will find 8 will be the replacement for 7 but MS going off on a mobile adventure just having a desktop version available while experimenting in the competative market with Fruit basket and Googlitis!

The drasticity of change is what is throwing most off while not everyone here is out to stab 8 to death either. The way MS is bringing in the touchscreen type gui while trashing the conventional wisdom for the desktop employed in both Vista and 7 is where most are annoyed as a result. While 8 will be a starting point MS is tossing a might look like this type gui on the market too fast over working out a user friendly gui for this type of major change knowing the populace is set on doing things as business as usual not retrain on everything to use an expermental mobile orientated OS on their desktops.

The comment about newer is not always better accurately sums things up when looking back at Vista'ss annoying side bar suddenly thrust on the desktop following the initial clean install of that version. For some "Gee i love this new gadget loaded side bar and all the thrills that go with it!". For 7 MS made the improvement of seeing gadgets on the desktop without need for a side bar! MS thought things through carefully.

For 8 however where did the desktop go is the expected normal reaction. Despite the improvements reported at the core levels for security, stability, hardware detection, and other things to learn more about the user experience has been thrust into a rock and a hard place!

For Tablet and Smart phone with intercapacitive ssreens 8 will likely get a foot hold for MS to enter the market while the desktop will suffer for most. AGPek has their line-up of Android models with touchscreen to compete with Windows 8 phones and Tablet PCs where the Modern is in embedded 8.

The one thing to know about embedded OSs however over OSs you can reinstall is the limitations on everything! There are few settings even for IE available once you embed the OS while the Fruit company has their own app solutions. Try downloading any mobile app to a cell phone and call it a day fast since it won't happen!

Windows 8 will become the Great Experiment into the less buky market place to begin with as MS faces off with it's rivals! Someone comment on how well 8 will sell since marketing research along with market surveys have already been performed? They didn't survey the desktop market of traditional users too well.

Simplicity with 8 wraps around touch screen a bit too much for the conventional desktop user. The desktop not regular mobile user while yes most are familiar with multiple interfaces will suffer a plight of where is everything until the user learns the ropes! They will then wonder why replace what is working for them just because it is new for something they have to reschool over?

 

[cytherian]

Windows 7 will live on for a very long time, even longer than XP (I believe). It simply works and works well.

Windows 8 should have been a revision of W7 with the desktop still in mind.
Concurrently, or maybe a bit before hand, they should have released Windows M. Yes, "M" for Mobile. THAT would be what W8 is minus the desktop option.

Anybody here own an iPod Nano? Talk about a device that has gone through an extreme identity crisis. "Am I the smallest portable music player ever? Or am I the smallest media device with the richest feature set? Or, maybe I'm kind of like a mini iPod Touch. I don't know what the hell I am." When the iPod Nano 6th generation came out, I was horrified. What did they do to that wonderfully powerful 5th generation? No more video or camera? No more click wheel? But then I started using it for workouts and realized it's fantastic... so small, easy to clip onto my running shorts, and I'm good to go. Yet they abandoned it for something more like a mini Touch, with a large touch screen. They should keep making the 6th generation and perhaps even improve upon it a little, because it's such a terrific form factor for exercising. But in the world of Apple, they don't play that way. Maybe Microsoft is following suit in their own way.

 

[Night Hawk]

Well you could see it named Windows M/T or Mobile/Touchscreen with a side note about not for desktop use! As MS tries to get back on the 2-3yrs. time table for each new verson road again they left a gap for every second version to address the more serious desktop market place while focusing 8's efforts on coming out with a ... ? whatever you want to call it!

They already a drastic gui change and getting anyone to buy would also mean dropping the prices tremously! No retail full install versions to be sold on disk! The OEM for System Builders comes in at $99- for either the 32bit or 64bit flavor one disk per license. That covers the equal to Home or Home Premium as well as Pro editions. The $70 tag is seen for the upgrade media as well as the upgrade buy online and download other option where you receive a product key card when preordering and later get the download link upon 10/26.

The advice still given for those considering a look at 8 however is keep what you have now and use a separate drive to see a stand alone install of 8 there! I've heard too many quickly dump 8 over 7 or Vista or XP and then want the older back once they are soon fed up and frustrated with 8. MS knows why they are not charging over $200 for 8 Pro!

 

[PaulGo]

Windows 8 Leaves Users Dazed and Confused

Windows 8 resistance: users confused by new UI, miss Start button

 

[Night Hawk]

This one sums up what 8 is far better! Surface RT tablet available for preorder: Why I am waiting | ZDNet

I'll wait!

 

[Dogmatix]

Anybody here own an iPod Nano? Talk about a device that has gone through an extreme identity crisis. "Am I the smallest portable music player ever? Or am I the smallest media device with the richest feature set? Or, maybe I'm kind of like a mini iPod Touch. I don't know what the hell I am." When the iPod Nano 6th generation came out, I was horrified. What did they do to that wonderfully powerful 5th generation? No more video or camera? No more click wheel? But then I started using it for workouts and realized it's fantastic... so small, easy to clip onto my running shorts, and I'm good to go. Yet they abandoned it for something more like a mini Touch, with a large touch screen. They should keep making the 6th generation and perhaps even improve upon it a little, because it's such a terrific form factor for exercising.

I have a Nano.... 3rd generation, the one with the 'landscape' display, and I'm still very happy with it. My kids have 5th generation Nanos; they like mucking about with the camera (and thereby draining the battery and filling up memory), but I just use mine to play music. I, too, was dismayed when the 6th generation came out. What, I thought, will I do if my Nano dies on me? Try to find another on Ebay, or get a non-Ipod-player? Not being the exercising type, I am still dismayed about the 6th generation version. I mean, I can see a market for such a thing, but why replace the 'normal' Nano? They could have given the new one another name ('Ipod Pico'?), and kept the old one. Now Apple have saved the situation with the 7th generation - at least I think so, as I still haven't see one in the shops (wasn't it supposed to come out last month?), and I'm a bit worried about the touch screen - too prone to accidental touches (like my smartphone).

 

[Night Hawk]

When I first took a look at the IPods I said "give me a break! $300-?!". It was actually more like $274- for a price tag but that was ridiculus to start with! The tiny shirt pocket sized box with a flimsy set of ear phones and super thin wires wasn't too appealing but simply showed the Fruit company's overpricing on things people still rush out to grab!

The cell phone that ran for $70 has a camera and will play mp3 files without problems with a blue tooth head set. Texting and a limited browser if you want to call it that for far less with phone service. I considered a Smart Talk smart phone but tended to shy away from shelling out too much on something I mainly use for quick callls and breif text messaging mainly when someone else would have their phone off or wasn't able to take calls.

Convenience for the constantly on-the-go person while not practical for the only periodic use. The touchscreen gift I ordered for a sibling runs Android there but with a wider WiFi capability since that person had been on dial-up until Verizon messed up the phone lines! I have suggested cable with Voice over IP to solve the tv, phone, and internet dilemna. You might ask if a Windows Phone would have been another option.

For checking voice mail as well as email, messaging, lve chat where do you end up most of the time? Right back at your desktop! Regardless of the messaging option you use whether Windows Live, Skype, or other everything is instant.

 

[R0bR]

Windows 8 Leaves Users Dazed and Confused

Windows 8 resistance: users confused by new UI, miss Start button

That guy is a tool. We still had to train users when they went from XP to 7 and he expects to drop W8 in front of someone and command them to do something? You buy a Mac and your given time with a "Genius" for them to go over the OS with you. I could have given all those users a 10 second rundown of the basics of W8 and would have had a totally different response to it.

 

[BarnabasSackett]

That guy is a tool. We still had to train users when they went from XP to 7 and he expects to drop W8 in front of someone and command them to do something?

You must have some pretty dense users. I went from XP to 7 and except for doing some things that the average user won't do, I didn't have much of learning curve at all. Install. "Hey! Look they have an ORB instead of a button but I bet that I can fix that." Double click, shortcut, task bar, system tray all pretty much the same as it has been for years.

Looking at Windows 8 . . . that's another matter entirely. Scroll sideways through screen after screen of dull icons after they spend . . . what? 20 years getting us used to more and more colorful and detailed icons.

Still haven't seen a thing that makes me want to run out and buy Win 8. Still haven't seen anything that would make me want to steal a copy of Win 8.

 

[Night Hawk]

Well here's one you guys can ponder over about the learning curve which is actually more of a toss up of gui and where things ended up being placed once you find the hidden popup menus and tool bars most simply won;t know are! How will the business community decide if 8 or a Fruit company alternative is more suitable for example? Buying tablets for business? The iPad or Windows RT dilemma | ZDNet

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Windows 8 Leaves Users Dazed and Confused

Windows 8 resistance: users confused by new UI, miss Start button

That guy is a tool. We still had to train users when they went from XP to 7 and he expects to drop W8 in front of someone and command them to do something? You buy a Mac and your given time with a "Genius" for them to go over the OS with you. I could have given all those users a 10 second rundown of the basics of W8 and would have had a totally different response to it.

Right on, Rob! :thumbup:

The author and the kid would make a good team best fit for a company like Disney producing cartoons.

 

[R0bR]

You must have some pretty dense users.

It's pretty common, most users are not computer savvy. People that know computers or how to use them take it for granted and think they make up the majority of Windows users and they clearly don't.

 

[Night Hawk]

You must have some pretty dense users.

It's pretty common, most users are not computer savvy. People that know computers or how to use them take it for granted and think they make up the majority of Windows users and they clearly don't.

That sums it up nicely! Most are NOT computer savay is quite correct! Most still need coaching on things long after they have been using a particular version for a long period of time let alone having a brand new gui tossed at them to contend with!

You can still find plenty of XP users that will still be asking away about how to do this or that. Each newer version will come with it's own tips and guides so to speak to cover the basics. Simply take a look at the SF tutorial section just for 7 alone to be amazed at what it takes for each new version.

The task for 8 however besides the new "Bells and Whistles" seen especially for the last two versions however is simply best put as the major gui overall MS decided on. Control Panel items divided and spread over different places without any main entry point to get into the Control Panel itself until visible in a Windows Explorer or Computer window for example will have people banging heads against walls!

The Start, Programs, and Shutdown options vanish in favor of a hidden tool bar you won't even know is there unless accidently moving the cursor over just the right spot. Once you know where to look that's all fine and dandy but simply something you toss at people and expect instant results with.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

The task for 8 however besides the new "Bells and Whistles" seen especially for the last two versions however is simply best put as the major gui overall MS decided on. Control Panel items divided and spread over different places without any main entry point to get into the Control Panel itself until visible in a Windows Explorer or Computer window for example will have people banging heads against walls!

???

Pointer upper right or lower right corners -> Charms Bar appears -> Settings -> Settings menu appears -> Control Panel is on it = (1 pointer move + 2 right clicks)

WinKey/C -> Charms Bar appears -> Settings -> Settings menu appears -> Control Panel is on it = (2 keys + 1 right click)

Mouse pointer lower left corner -> Right click mini Start Screen -> Walla! Guts menu in which a Control Panel link is on = (1 pointer move + 1 left click)

Pin Control Panel tile to the Start Screen. WinKey -> (scroll to tile with page down key if need be) -> Select tile = (1 key + scroll+ 1 left click)

I saved best for last -> WinKey/I -> Settings menu appears with Control Panel highlighted -> Press enter = (3 keys)

How simple and easy is that? Touch will even be faster with gestures and taps.

 

[Night Hawk]

The task for 8 however besides the new "Bells and Whistles" seen especially for the last two versions however is simply best put as the major gui overall MS decided on. Control Panel items divided and spread over different places without any main entry point to get into the Control Panel itself until visible in a Windows Explorer or Computer window for example will have people banging heads against walls!

???

Pointer upper right or lower left corners -> Charms Bar appears -> Settings -> Settings menu appears -> Control Panel is on it = (1 pointer move + 2 right clicks)

WinKey/C -> Charms Bar appears -> Settings -> Settings menu appears -> Control Panel is on it = (2 keys + 1 right click)

Mouse pointer lower left corner -> Right click mini Start Screen -> Walla! Guts menu in which a Control Panel link is on = (1 pointer move + 1 left click)

Pin Control Panel tile to the Start Screen. WinKey -> (scroll to tile with page down key if need be) -> Select tile = (1 key + scroll+ 1 left click)

I saved best for last -> WinKey/I -> Settings menu appears with Control Panel highlighted -> Press enter = (3 keys)

How simple and easy is that? Touch will even be faster with gestures and taps.

And just how did you come across all the Win keys and other things? Was it by already being familiar with tne Modern in previous versions or by "trial and error" once you had the CP or RP installed?

Now just imagine you never even heard of 8 before now and are opening up a box for a new pc and 8 is preinstalled. What will be the first things that come to mind if you are only now upgrading out an old 2000, XP, or Vista machine? "How do you run this thing?" would be the first question since the start/setup pamplet won't explain how to run the OS! "Where is everything? How do you do this or that with this OS?".

"Frustration" is the key word to keep in mind for those who run out to the latest with no idea of what they are in for! For the few that toy with OSs like us on a regular basis we would simply say: "Oh that's what they did here or there for this or that.".

You can be sure of one thing. With Dell's choice of OSs people will be sending the new desktop and laptops back demanding something else be put on once they get stumped on 8 since they won't necessarily be on forums like 8F or SF and following what is happening too often.

Regardless of your own personal preferences and opinion about 8 the majority of less then advanced users will soon be uttering a negative reaction since the vast number of changes seen with 8 will be a larger turn off! There was no gradual evolvement of gui but a sudden strip everything away for something else and why many are simply reaching the conclusion they will simply be skipping over to wait for what comes later.

As far as the touchscreen part that has been in the works for years now with everyone knowing the day would come for some type of touchscreen interface in Windows with 7 already seeing an increased support there. But most would assume MS would use some common sense as far as seeing it made an option not a mandate until now.

 

[Dogmatix]

I went from XP to 7 and except for doing some things that the average user won't do, I didn't have much of learning curve at all. Install. "Hey! Look they have an ORB instead of a button but I bet that I can fix that." Double click, shortcut, task bar, system tray all pretty much the same as it has been for years.

The launch bar isn't. On my XP PC I have all the program icons I need along the bottom - small, close together - and between them and the system tray I have the running programs, easy to see. On my kid's Win7 PC the launch icons are bigger and further apart, so take up more room. The icons can be made smaller, but they still have big gaps between. And instead of a separate bit for running programs, these are indicated, but not very clearly, by shadows on the launch icons. Don't like it.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I was surfing the MS site and stumbled upon Windows 8 RP. I did a search for dual-boot installation and this forum came up. I joined the forum.

I'm not boasting when saying this, for it's a fact. I have a fairly high IQ. I dare say that most members here do, including you. Birds of the same feather flock together.

Yes, we are savvier than most computer users, for we are far more enthusiastic with it. The general world population that use computers don't care how it works, just that it works and does what they want it to, whether it be productive work or consumption. But, they are not as stupid as some make them out to be. If they learned other OSs, they'll learn 8. It may be a little more learning curve, but they'll learn it none the less.


For my experience of learning, I'll just quote another post from this thread: http://www.eightforums.com/windows-...dows-users-want-start-button-windows-8-a.html Post #24.

Also keep in mind that I'm a big shortcut key user. Always have been. In fact, I used Alt/x to go advanced post preview and will post this with Alt/S.

Normal is what an individual usually does or usually acts. We take notice when an individual acts differently to their normal way. I new something was up when one of my children acted out of their norm.

Here's the thing ........ Windows 8 is what it is. That's the reality of it all. It is abnormal to previous OSs. A huge change to target a market. I believe it is not targeting enterprise, but rather the general public. Like you say, Terry, enterprise will be happy to upgrade to 7. I think MS had this planned all along. They new they had to get 7 near perfect, which I believe they accomplished. I'm quite sure they had 8 release date pinned on their calendar while producing 7. 7 will continue to be income for them. I think 9 will be geared for enterprise.

It starts with marketing. Anyone could see that Apple was winning the game. Throw some Google with Android and other touch-based OSs in. The market is demanding touch. No if, ands, or buts about it. One has to change their game plan to win.

Therefore, it's the people's demand for touch. It's not MS's, iFruit's, Google's, OEM's, or any others' choice. If anyone ever bought a touch device, they voted for touch.

When I first booted up 8, I intuitively knew to press enter after staring at the splash screen for about 10 seconds. My exact thoughts were "This is different" and then "What the hell is this?!". After pushing enter I stared at the Start Screen for awhile with these same two questions, but added ones of "Where's the desktop?!". "Where's the start orb and menu?!" "How do I shut this thing down?!" Lol! It remains quite amusing to me to this day!

I scrolled back and forth a few times wondering what to do next. "I need help" I thought, so I pushed the IE tile. It opened to the Bing page, which has been my home page for quite some time. That was "normal" for me. I typed "shut down windows 8". It led me to a whole lot of help. This forum was and continues to be a huge help. The rest is history. I was cruising through 8 within a few hours and I don't consider myself all that savvy! Within a few days I was pretty much familiar with most of it.

I guess it's all in fun, but just don't get the hoopla of cold-showing 8 to anyone without some simple instructions. I think it's plain asinine. An insult to human intelligence IMO.

If not for the hierarchical problem of organization of the Start Screen it would be far better than the Start Menu. I admit that is a big problem that MS needs to address. It's not a huge problem for me, but I realize it is for some.

Shortcut keys are pretty much the same, especially the Windows key. Push it once the Start Screen appears. Push it again it's back to the window screen I was at. Same as the Start Menu. It's no different in that respect. When I opened the Start Menu, I wasn't looking at the rest of the desktop, I was concentrating on the menu. I find it very much more informational while looking for something on the Start Screen in that live tiles are feeding me information while there. Who's emailing me, temperatures in multiple places, news headlines, etc. I don't have to open a program to get information. It's all at a glance. The Start Menu didn't do that for me.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I absolutely love the look of the "Modern" Start Screen. It looks a whole lot better than the Start Menu IMO. I don't need no stinking Start Menu. That's my vote.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

LMAO Tony.... WE both KNOW those Win+ key combos have been around since Windows 95, and they came with the Win95 disc. I still have that 45 page guide. I willing to bet something similar will be included in the Retail (store) version of Windows 8.