So I gave my mom windows 8

[pparks1]

^ Thank you. When I was asked at work to describe the OS as simply as I could, this is what I came up with. It sounded good, so I changed my sig block.

 

[Coke Robot]

I don't really see how that qualifies as getting rid of Metro, you simply have a couple of tiles, but still have the awkward flop back and forth between the now much emptier metro start screen and the classic deskop.

If switching to the Start Screen from the Desktop is awkward, then clicking the File tab in Office 2010 and 2013 to the full screen Backstage views are awkward.... :shock:

 

[Coke Robot]

I don't really classify opening the start menu as awkward. It lacks the annoying flipping animation that metro apps make, and does not activate the upper-left corner thingy. Yes, it's designed to look metro, but it's really just a fullscreen start menu. It does not make the desktop feel like an app at all. In fact, the desktop feels like it's underneath the start menu whenever it's open.

Well put, when configured a certain Desktop-centric way, it just feels simply like a sub-Desktop layer that you go into to find something. Doesn't feel weird at all, it just feels right.

 

[Coke Robot]

I don't get it, if you just remove ALL the metro styled apps, and replaced them with Desktop shortcuts, how is that bad?

 

[pparks1]

rd, then clicking the File tab in Office 2010 and 2013 to the full screen Backstage views are awkward.... :shock:

Sorry, I'm not following you.

I saw going to Metro start screen is awkward, because with any previous version of Windows, I could hit the start button and continue to see my running apps, my taskbar, my notification area, my toast pop ups, etc. With Windows 8, I hit the Windows key and all of a sudden the entire desktop is gone and I have a completely different thing.

 

[SIW2]

Yes, it's very awkward.

This thing is really for tablets.

Fine.

If you want to use a proper machine - you may in future have to look for something other than windows.

Those references to the desktop as "legacy" are ominous.

At least that is where MS think they are going at the moment.

They may change their minds.

 

[phailyoor]

I don't really classify opening the start menu as awkward. It lacks the annoying flipping animation that metro apps make, and does not activate the upper-left corner thingy. Yes, it's designed to look metro, but it's really just a fullscreen start menu. It does not make the desktop feel like an app at all. In fact, the desktop feels like it's underneath the start menu whenever it's open.

Well put, when configured a certain Desktop-centric way, it just feels simply like a sub-Desktop layer that you go into to find something. Doesn't feel weird at all, it just feels right.

Especially since secondary monitors always show desktop, no matter what else is happening. The start screen is just a start menu that happens to take up the whole screen. Not saying it's great, but it's only slightly worse than the old start menu at worst, and slightly better at best.

 

[tcman50]

I think this line from two and half men describes windows 8 perfectly:

It's like a kangaroo driving a car, the rides a little bumpy but he will eventually get you there.

 

[Coke Robot]

rd, then clicking the File tab in Office 2010 and 2013 to the full screen Backstage views are awkward.... :shock:

Sorry, I'm not following you.

I saw going to Metro start screen is awkward, because with any previous version of Windows, I could hit the start button and continue to see my running apps, my taskbar, my notification area, my toast pop ups, etc. With Windows 8, I hit the Windows key and all of a sudden the entire desktop is gone and I have a completely different thing.

Have you used Office 2010 or 2013?

 

[pparks1]

Yes, I use 2010 every day at work. Have got 2013 installed on my Win8 machine. Don't know what you meant by full screen "Backstage" views.

 

[jeffrys]

"If you uninstalled all of the Metro apps, then how is this better than Windows 7?"

Well, easier to install, faster install, easier network install, more drivers available and a FASTER WINDOWS, that together with the FASTER OFFICE 2013 should convince 90% of the users. Install takes about 10 to 15 min and it goes all by itself.


Jeff

 

[pparks1]

The install of 8 was easy, but then again, so was 7 really.


I had a slightly different experience with install times, which I have quoted here from the sevenforums.com website for reference

First off, this thread is not meant to be completely encompassing. I simply took a machine that I had on hand and I tested the installation time, the disk space consumed, and the bootup and shut down time of both of the operating systems.

My test box
Dell Optiplex 755
Core 2 Duo E7200 @ 2.53Ghz
2.0GB RAM
160GB Seagate 7200.10, 7200RPM hard drive

I installed both machines from the same Sandisk Cruzer USB USB flash drives. I installed Windows 7 64bit Ultimate and WIndows 8 Preview Release 64bit.

Windows 7
Install from power press to create your user account: 16:05

disk space used: 11,484,815,360 bytes (according to windows explorer)

To time the boot up, I disabled a password for my user account, and I created a wordpad file that would auto launch from Windows Startup. 38 seconds

Shutdown time was until machine clicked off. 11.0 seconds


Windows 8
Install from power press to create your user account: 26:50
Note: it got to Getting Devices Ready and Getting System ready in around 14 minutes, but hung for another 12 minutes and rebooted before I could create my user account.

disk space used: 12,580,995,072

To time the bootup, I disabled a password for my user account, and I created a wordpad file that would auto launch from Windows startup. Since METRO fires first, I would immediately click on Desktop when Metro showed and then time until my wordpad file opened. Boot up time: 29 seconds

Shut down time: Since Metro doesn't provide it's own shutdown, but rather I have to log off first and then shut down, its' a couple of clicks with my mouse. Shut down time: 15 second.


Note: Windows 8 makes use of the hiberfile to create that super fast startup. I always disable hibernation of my machines as they have SSD's and I don't want to use up disk space.

Boot time of Windows 8 after (powercfg -h off), went to 47 seconds



So, there you have it.

If Windows 8 is truly faster than 7, then it's by a very small margin...aside from the bootup speed increased gained via the hiberfile.sys.

Office 2013 is not faster for me than 2010. And the shockingly white theme that cannot be changed really bothers me.

 

[SIW2]

I don't notice it being any faster.

It might be a tiny bit if you took test measurements.

That doesn't matter - it is whether you actually notice it that counts.

Can't say there was much difference in installation either.

Quite a lot of stuff left out of win8 install.wim - keeps the size down and keeps the install time down as well.

I suppose they had to do that because of the extra size caused by slapping the phone interface in there.

 

[FuturDreamz]

"If you uninstalled all of the Metro apps, then how is this better than Windows 7?"

Well, easier to install, faster install, easier network install, more drivers available and a FASTER WINDOWS, that together with the FASTER OFFICE 2013 should convince 90% of the users. Install takes about 10 to 15 min and it goes all by itself.


Jeff

Can you prove that there are more drivers available?

And as for speed: I'm running a SSD, and a clean install of any OS will be faster than an older install. Any speed increases in Window 8 would, to me, be nullified by the law of diminishing returns.

 

[phailyoor]

It's definitely not faster enough to make upgrading worth it. Still, faster can never hurt. Driver availability will probably be about the same from 3rd parties, but I think MS has baked in a few more drivers that were not present in 7.

 

[FSeal]

It's definitely not faster enough to make upgrading worth it. Still, faster can never hurt. Driver availability will probably be about the same from 3rd parties, but I think MS has baked in a few more drivers that were not present in 7.

Unfortunately that'll be wiped out by the fact that a lot of win 7 drivers will not install on win 8 as usual. Especially printer and scanner drivers for older hardware. While a new OS release DOES have more of the current/modern hardware in by default, old hardware is often left off to make room. Then when you try to install your WIn7 printer drivers you get the "This driver was not made for this version of windows" and you have to either be sneaky about installing it by hand or wait for the manufacturer to update their old drivers (which is a crap shoot).

This isn't a dig at Win8 specifically though, EVERY single new windows OS has had this problem to a larger or smaller degree. With Win 8 they did change some of the driver ecosystem relating to the printers so it's possible that printer issues could be a bit more problematic this time around.

 

[Coke Robot]

I don't notice it being any faster.

It might be a tiny bit if you took test measurements.

That doesn't matter - it is whether you actually notice it that counts.

Can't say there was much difference in installation either.

Quite a lot of stuff left out of win8 install.wim - keeps the size down and keeps the install time down as well.

I suppose they had to do that because of the extra size caused by slapping the phone interface in there.

Or it could be due to the fact that Windows has parts of it that have been rebuilt and therefore makes the install.wim file smaller....

 

[jeffrys]

PPARKS1,

"If Windows 8 is truly faster than 7, then it's by a very small margin...aside from the bootup speed increased gained via the hiberfile.sys.

Office 2013 is not faster for me than 2010. And the shockingly white theme that cannot be changed really bothers me."

You should get a SSD drive because a 7200 RPM does not do the trick.

Not to bash you or criticize your setup in any way.

And of course I have Win7 on one of my computers. And every time I need to do something in Win7 (or Vista) I think "my god".

"Can you prove that there are more drivers available?"

Well I had to do nothing, install nothing myself what more do you want. Don't tell me you did not had to install at least 1 driver for Windows7, I will not believe you.

By the way Win8 boots faster then Win7.

I am not talking about tests, because tests lie, but it is the feeling and notification you have that shows.

Example:

my Win8 CP is still on my Revodrive 3 x2, Windows8 tests this drive as 9.1, but I installed Win8 RP on my Foremay Cheetah 64gb SLC drive and Windows test the performance here as 7.4, big difference. Well it does not bother me at all since difference only shows in big file transfer.

There is no performance difference between these drives IN Win8.

I had to by the Foremay drives in the US to get them, they costed twice as much as the Intel X25 where everybody was raving about.

Well the Foremay blows the X25 away because it is a drive to use with small blocks.

I use them already for 3 years.

As said here before on the board, it is the first time that I am happy with an OS like Win8.

But I can only speek for myself here.

Jeff

 

[pparks1]

You should get a SSD drive because a 7200 RPM does not do the trick.

I have an SSD in my work laptop and have had one in my desktop for 2 years now. If the SSD makes the difference, then it's not really Windows 8 making things better.

Not to bash you or criticize your setup in any way.

I just used a run of the mill desktop that I had laying around my office. It's the computer that I have been evaluating Windows 8 on this whole time. For what it is, it runs good.

 

[Coke Robot]

You should get a SSD drive because a 7200 RPM does not do the trick.

I have an SSD in my work laptop and have had one in my desktop for 2 years now. If the SSD makes the difference, then it's not really Windows 8 making things better.

Not to bash you or criticize your setup in any way.

I just used a run of the mill desktop that I had laying around my office. It's the computer that I have been evaluating Windows 8 on this whole time. For what it is, it runs good.

Windows 8 does benefit more from a SSD because of hybrid boot.