MS misses the boat ? POLL

[Coke Robot]

If one single additional component costs $85 - no way to hit consumer price point at $250.

Info's been updated that it will be around 50-65 dollars for RT.

 

[Coke Robot]

Will they?

It wasn't clear what MS was doing with pricing.

Commentators seem to think MS were hinting at RT coming at 500 or so - to compete with ipad.

If that is the case - it is the whole point of this thread.

MS will have nothing sub 300.

And that is where the action will be.

After seeing this - the penny might drop and MS could attempt something - but they haven't yet.

I doubt the sub 300 level is where it's at. Look at the ipad adoption, people are literally willing to pay 500 dollars for a large ipod touch. Look at the sub 300 level where android resides, you find that it's a slaughter house for the manufacturers because people don't pick them up enough to be considered profitable. That's the whole reason why so many OEMs are excited for Windows 8 is because IF they can get the price on tablets down running Windows, they have a better profit route than android since people want a Windows tablet more than an android and almost as much as an ipad.

And also, the 300 dollar level is where netbooks used to be in. They have an Intel Atom processor and a small screen. In a tablet of the caliber, it can have an Intel Atom processor, a touchscreen, and a small SSD since that's a huge expense, all for around 4-500 dollars, and be able to have touch and be able to run metro apps and run Desktop apps, that's a big deal right there.

 

[adamus]

$300 - $400

I choose this price range and for me it's enough that anyone can afford to buy.

 

[FSeal]

Will they?

It wasn't clear what MS was doing with pricing.

Commentators seem to think MS were hinting at RT coming at 500 or so - to compete with ipad.

If that is the case - it is the whole point of this thread.

MS will have nothing sub 300.

And that is where the action will be.

After seeing this - the penny might drop and MS could attempt something - but they haven't yet.

I doubt the sub 300 level is where it's at. Look at the ipad adoption, people are literally willing to pay 500 dollars for a large ipod touch. Look at the sub 300 level where android resides, you find that it's a slaughter house for the manufacturers because people don't pick them up enough to be considered profitable. That's the whole reason why so many OEMs are excited for Windows 8 is because IF they can get the price on tablets down running Windows, they have a better profit route than android since people want a Windows tablet more than an android and almost as much as an ipad.

And also, the 300 dollar level is where netbooks used to be in. They have an Intel Atom processor and a small screen. In a tablet of the caliber, it can have an Intel Atom processor, a touchscreen, and a small SSD since that's a huge expense, all for around 4-500 dollars, and be able to have touch and be able to run metro apps and run Desktop apps, that's a big deal right there.

There are several reasons people are willing to pay 500-800 for an iPad.

1) People that buy Apple stuff are used to and willing to pay a premium for it. Everyone else has to compete on price. To get someone to NOT buy an iPad you have to be 100-200 cheaper.

2) The price for quality tablets is coming down FAST. It used to be that $250 got you a real POS tablet, but now it can get quite a lot and that pressure will only continue in the future. Android is going to clean up the market here.

3) The 500-800 range dominated by the iPad and Android as well is already so well entrenched. and likely quite saturated. Why would anyone that wanted that device for that price not have one (or more) by now? They do... The sub $400 range is much less tapped out due to lackluster devices in the past, but that's changing. But even then that market will probably be saturated within 18 months or so from now.

 

[SIW2]

LOL, I do like Cokie.

I am going to guess most of the market will be sub $300.

Unlikely any oem's will be able to get a decent quality device into that bracket if it is running windows.

That is a lot of users going to Google and Apple cloud.

The more I think about it , the more tempting it must be for an ipad mini.

There will only be google devices around if they don't step in.

They can afford to push the price up a bit to $299 and people will go the extra $50 to have an ipad of sorts.

They can also take a lower unit margin than they are used to - it is about getting as many in your cloud as possible - that is the prize.

 

[Coke Robot]

Will they?

It wasn't clear what MS was doing with pricing.

Commentators seem to think MS were hinting at RT coming at 500 or so - to compete with ipad.

If that is the case - it is the whole point of this thread.

MS will have nothing sub 300.

And that is where the action will be.

After seeing this - the penny might drop and MS could attempt something - but they haven't yet.

I doubt the sub 300 level is where it's at. Look at the ipad adoption, people are literally willing to pay 500 dollars for a large ipod touch. Look at the sub 300 level where android resides, you find that it's a slaughter house for the manufacturers because people don't pick them up enough to be considered profitable. That's the whole reason why so many OEMs are excited for Windows 8 is because IF they can get the price on tablets down running Windows, they have a better profit route than android since people want a Windows tablet more than an android and almost as much as an ipad.

And also, the 300 dollar level is where netbooks used to be in. They have an Intel Atom processor and a small screen. In a tablet of the caliber, it can have an Intel Atom processor, a touchscreen, and a small SSD since that's a huge expense, all for around 4-500 dollars, and be able to have touch and be able to run metro apps and run Desktop apps, that's a big deal right there.

There are several reasons people are willing to pay 500-800 for an iPad.

1) People that buy Apple stuff are used to and willing to pay a premium for it. Everyone else has to compete on price. To get someone to NOT buy an iPad you have to be 100-200 cheaper.

2) The price for quality tablets is coming down FAST. It used to be that $250 got you a real POS tablet, but now it can get quite a lot and that pressure will only continue in the future. Android is going to clean up the market here.

3) The 500-800 range dominated by the iPad and Android as well is already so well entrenched. and likely quite saturated. Why would anyone that wanted that device for that price not have one (or more) by now? They do... The sub $400 range is much less tapped out due to lackluster devices in the past, but that's changing. But even then that market will probably be saturated within 18 months or so from now.

See, the problem I have with android tablets now with Windows RT is that there isn't a tangible benefit to them other than price. Sure, a 7 inch tablet can run for 200 dollars, but what can you do with it? Customize the UI like no tomorrow? Fill out a spreadsheet? Write a letter? Watch flash based video? Ehh...

There also isn't much of an argument for android now since the main competitor of the ipad is now Windows 8, it genuinely is. Even if the tablet is considerably less the than an ipad, what selling points make it stand out? It's like an ipad but not with the apple hype? And mind you, when I speak of Windows 8 right now, I'm speaking of the ARM variant to have an even playing field, and as I see it, android in the tablet space will probably not be a big player. One can build an ARM based Windows 8 tablet for 250 dollars and justify that against a 200 dollar android tablet.

 

[Coke Robot]

LOL, I do like Cokie.

I am going to guess most of the market will be sub $300.

Unlikely any oem's will be able to get a decent quality device into that bracket if it is running windows.

That is a lot of users going to Google and Apple cloud.

The more I think about it , the more tempting it must be for an ipad mini.

There will only be google devices around if they don't step in.

They can afford to push the price up a bit to $299 and people will go the extra $50 to have an ipad of sorts.

They can also take a lower unit margin than they are used to - it is about getting as many in your cloud as possible - that is the prize.

I just see it as it is. :thumb:

 

[SIW2]

The less expensive tablets don't have as much functionality as the bigger higher priced models - of course.

Does it matter?

Most folk just want them for entertainment - a bit of Fbooking and online shopping .

They have no other needs.

Ask those with htc phones instead of iphones - don't be surprised if they say it is the same thing - but less expensive.

It doesn't matter to them the iphone is a better machine - they don't notice.

 

[Coke Robot]

Well yeah, if you have an HTC minicomputer with android, you become a person that uses a phone as a computer. But for the rest of the populace, we have things we'd like to do that don't need many devices. Having a Windows 8 tablet gives you access to the Kindle's ebook library, and since Microsoft has stake in Barnes and Noble, there will be an app designed for 8 to give content to those devices. So two devices don't need to be bought.

What about the casual user that needs Office software? There is a possible libreoffice coming to ios and I think android, but really? I've seen what happens when you give a long time Office user openoffice, it's excruciating.

Interesting you say that many people have a lot of online usage that needs a simple tablet, the thing is that Windows 8 tablets having the power of IE 10, as far as I know, that has been found to be the fastest browser compared to ios 6 beta and the latest chrome browser on android. A faster browser is always better.

 

[SIW2]

I think you will find the nexus gives you access to google content - books is one area they are beefing up.

Do you think the average user knows or cares which browser is a fraction of a per cent faster than another ?

Quite a lot don't even know what a browser is.

That is the gigantic market.

There are other markets - yes - and win8 tablets will be in some of those.

But they seem to be missing the biggie.

 

[alphanumeric]

The devices I'm interested in are the Tablet with a keyboard dock, like the ASUS Transformer Prime. A tablet when you want it and a Netbook like device when you want a real keyboard.

 

[Coke Robot]

I think you will find the nexus gives you access to google content - books is one area they are beefing up.

Do you think the average user knows or cares which browser is a fraction of a per cent faster than another ?

Quite a lot don't even know what a browser is.

That is the gigantic market.

There are other markets - yes - and win8 tablets will be in some of those.

But they seem to be missing the biggie.

If people don't really know what a browser is, let alone speed, Internet Explorer would be the ONLY browser people use!
But seriously, people do care about browser speed as that's why some choose other browsers over other ones.

Another selling point for Windows 8 tablets is the fact of familiarity. If you know how to use Windows Explorer, you by default, know 50 percent of a new product without even using it. For some people, probably MANY, want a tablet that has USB ports. That enables copying files through flash drives that the ipad doesn't and will never have and something that only a handful of android tablets have. Not only that, Windows is a brand that device makers will build on, so there will probably be the external DVD drives built for RT and (I'm not totally sure on this one) external hard drives for RT. All of the file management in 8 is done primarily through the Desktop, and interface people are vastly familiar with over its counterparts. The things that will need to be learned are the Start Screen, Charms, and how to interact with metro apps.

Even more, developing for Windows RT tablets would be better than android as there is a marketplace that is regulated and checked whereas android it's anarchy, anything goes. The Windows Store provides an easy place to get apps that the user will now is free from malware whereas android can't guarantee that. And since its Windows, developers will be there to build ARM compatible apps for the Desktop app counterpart, namely bittorrent clients off the top of my head. There will also be security software as well.

It makes it easier for the developer since the platform will be there and supported for 2-3 years until the next version and the next version will work with the older apps since the tablet hardware can support them, whereas android's platform is a crapshoot.

 

[SIW2]

Well - you keep hoping.

Just got a pint of milk from Sainsbury's.

The guys n gals working there on the floor , in delivery, etc and all those in Tesco etc have no need of excel spreadsheets.

Neither do the street cleaners , park attendants, the unemployed, etc.

Don't klnow what percentage of the population that is - 50%, 70% ?

I don't know. Whatever it is, it is huge.

They might get a nexus type thing.

They would not go £500 or £800.

It really doesn't matter what anyone says - you will be convinced that every being on the planet is desperate for win8.

 

[legacy7955]

Why would I spend 500 $ of my hard earned money on a gadget that is only good as a play toy?.

A laptop still makes more sense.

Actually I wouldn't spend 100 bucks on a tablet.

 

[Coke Robot]

Well - you keep hoping.

Just got a pint of milk from Sainsbury's.

The guys n gals working there on the floor , in delivery, etc and all those in Tesco etc have no need of excel spreadsheets.

Neither do the street cleaners , park attendants, the unemployed, etc.

Don't klnow what percentage of the population that is - 50%, 70% ?

I don't know. Whatever it is, it is huge.

They might get a nexus type thing.

They would not go £500 or £800.

It really doesn't matter what anyone says - you will be convinced that every being on the planet is desperate for win8.

I will...
But I do know of a university 10 miles away from me and its attendants would love to use a spreadsheet or word program that is THE standard of office software, as well as an educational district near me would as well, and the self-employed that I know. But that could huge, I don't know for sure either.

Well, if you believe people will only need low priced tablets for entertainment and web browsing, I say this. The main demographic that buys entertainment devices are the younger generations, like Gen Y and on. A trend is being noticed that the younger crowed refutes the traditions of past and would rather go more for sheer practicality than sheer brand following. Now, adding that to equation, what device at a low price point can offer practicality?

Also, I am convinced that Windows 8 is great because if android tablets were so great, we wouldn't be here having this conversation about whether or not a simple android device can cut it as those tablets would had saturated the market and has taken its place as the prime competitor against apple's ipad in how many years since it's been out on tablets. But, the latter isn't the reality and if people really wanted a low priced tablet, they would already have one and would be pleased with it, and again, the latter isn't the reality since low priced android tablets don't have what it takes to replace a Windows powered laptop in terms of capability and practicality.

But, if a 200 dollar android tablet can be built, slap 50 dollars on that and a Windows RT tablet can respectively compete.

 

[SIW2]

I do not suggest that is ALL people.

I am suggesting it is a very significant number.

There is no doubt there is a gigantic market for sub $300 devices.

So far there is no sign that Windows will be in that market.

( Even if some oem's are able to scrape something into that bracket - they will not be able compete on device quality because of the license fee. )

It is a huge mistake.

 

[SIW2]

LOL.

I see you do not understand business either.

1. Do you think an increase in cost to the manufacturer of one component by $5 results in a $5 increase in the retail price ?

Somebody enlighten him - I don't have the energy.

2. The tablet market is relatively new. It is nowhere near saturated.That is why it is expected to grow.That is also why there haven't been decent devices at lower price points until now.

3. It is complicated by a number of other factors - you know phones get big subsidies from the carriers ( perhaps you didn't know ).

There is scope for that to come into play with tablets , too.

I believe google doesn't make anything at all on the sale of the nexus devices online. They don't care - they will get the users into the google clouds. ( BTW there is no hdmi out at that price - but there is a usb port.).

It is still early days.

The next gen at those kind of prices will be even better.

 

[Coke Robot]

LOL.

I see you do not understand business either.

1. Do you think an increase in cost to the manufacturer of one component by $5 results in a $5 increase in the retail price ?

Somebody enlighten him - I don't have the energy.

2. The tablet market is relatively new. It is nowhere near saturated.That is why it is expected to grow.That is also why there haven't been decent devices at lower price points until now.

3. It is complicated by a number of other factors - you know phones get big subsidies from the carriers ( perhaps you didn't know ).

There is scope for that to come into play with tablets , too.

I believe google doesn't make anything at all on the sale of the nexus devices online. They don't care - they will get the users into the google clouds. ( BTW there is no hdmi out at that price - but there is a usb port.).

It is still early days.

The next gen at those kind of prices will be even better.

I do understand manufacturing, and I understand marketing and when have I ever suggested a 5 dollar increase results in 5 dollar retail? All I ever stated was that if an android tablet can be built at 200 dollars, slap 50 for the Windows license and it can stand to compete at that price point if it can be justified.

If the tablet market is relatively new, why has the ipad saturated the name tablet in three years? Want a tablet? Get an ipad.

Phones get subsidized? You don't say!....

Yep, it's still the early days of true tablet competition. I find that android tablets won't be able to cut it. Oh well.

 

[whs]

The new Google pad for $199 to $249 will be the new benchmark. And 7" is a lot handier than these big tiles.

 

[SIW2]

Hi whs,

I might be tempted by one of those myself.

Not just yet - they are getting better all the time.