Installing W8.1 - Legacy vs. UEFI - Dell XPS15 - Problem!

[Saltgrass]

So Dell had the system set back to the AHCI controller? I suppose a reboot after replacing the drive will tell if the old drive will boot like that. You may end up setting it back to RAID.

Wiping the mSATA drive will delete your ability to boot into your current install... up to you.


When you do the bcdedit, make sure and use the full command.

bcdedit /enum all

If you want to put it on your desktop as a text file, use this command.

bcdedit /enum all > %userprofile%\Desktop\bcdtext.txt

The OS Loaders are not always grouped together, so look through the listing for the Ubuntu.

 

[Juice370]

Excellent info. Yes the Ubuntu is on volume 5. Why it won't delete permanently with easybcd is anyone's guess. While the laptop is for sale I'm going to set it up with the SSD and then the original SATA drive to ensure it works. Then I'll bang the SSD 'as is', in my PC (ASUS Z87-Pro) when it sells and put the original SATA drive back into the laptop. It may take a while to shift.

Please see the doc here if you have a minute to spare: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s30tk3h6s60seal/AADLvi2smMVjm2UHlnSW2FD_a

Having seen the doc, would you once again advise me to start by wiping the bootloaders and then reinstalling the OS following this guide: http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html

Thanks a lot

 

[Juice370]

In addition to the above, how is the best way to unbind the main SSD from the cache SSD so that I can install 'all' of Windows 8 on the main SSD without the EFI going onto the mSSD cache like it has done in the past? I now see this is the real issue. Is it a case of physically disconnecting the mSSD drive while installing Windows on the main SSD?

I've found some good articles on how to set up the Intel Smart Response Technology AKA RAID again so I think this bit will be pretty easy:

Enabling 32GB SSD Cache on XPS 2720 - Desktop General Hardware Forum - Desktop - Dell Community

Intel Smart Response Technology Configuration | Dell US

Thanks

 

[Saltgrass]

If I understand, the only entry which is bothering you is the Ubuntu entry. You an remove that. You have other things which could be removed, but it won't hurt to leave them.

If you want to check which ones are important, start with the current OS Loader. Look at the recoverysequence and find the ramdrive which is set up for it. Then use the GUID number in it to find the Device options entry. But again, leaving the other entries alone is probably the safest choice.

You enable or disable the mSATA by using the Intel utility and disabling Acceleration. When you go through the utility you should be able to understand how it works. Just an advisory, but if the mSATA were to still being used as a cache, when you disable acceleration, give it some time to unwind the configuration, which may take a few minutes.

 

[Juice370]

The Dell guys did disable acceleration last year before switching the SATA mode to ACHI. I definitely recall this. But why is the EFI installing on the cache drive if its disabled, this is the problem I see now?

I need to and somehow unbind the cache drive (maybe physically disconnect it?) in order to install the FULL OS on the main SSD only without it putting EFI on the cache again - no idea why it did this. Then use the Samsung SSD as is for now until its sold and then simply put the SATA drive back in and activate ISRT and this will pick up the cleaned cache drive.

For the cache drive and setting up ISRT they recommend cleaning the cache in Diskpart but not formatting it, so that the ISRT will pick it up again when back in RAID mode at re-sell time.

I may as well get it all sorted now while I'm in so deep with regards time.

 

[Saltgrass]

If acceleration is disabled, the mSATA is just another drive. If it is listed as first in the Bios priority, it will be considered the primary drive and get the EFI partition.

The normal process is to install the OS to the HDD, then enable acceleration. But you have to make sure you are installing to the HDD as the primary drive.

 

[Juice370]

Because ISRT AKA RAID is disabled in the BIOS and the Rapid Storage Tech software not doing much at present - this should not be pertinent while working with the Samsung SSD so I'm told. I tried switching ISRT back on last night in the BIOS and of course it wouldn't boot as it has no cache drive to use - this needs to be completely empty according to the Dell forum. And it's not empty because of this damn EFI which seems to insist on installing on the cache drive, whereas the rest of the OS goes on to C as expected. I'm still stumped as to why this would happen, maybe it's inconsequential now as I'm starting from scratch and wiping the lot.

Because I'm using an SSD as main drive, not cache - ISRT is disabled, won't work. So I'll start formatting everything now and remove the cache to ensure the OS installs fully on the main SSD C drive. I'm still not 100% if this is the only way to unbind the cache from main drive?

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

1) Go to BIOS
2) Ensure SECURE BOOT is OFF / DISABLED
3) Now set ALOW LEGACY BOOT (menu might have slightly different expressions but if you allow legacy boot then you can boot both UEFI and NON UEFI systems).

If you now want to have a UEFI OS - ensure the boot HDD in the computer is GPT formatted. Then simply install the OS.
If you want a Bog standard OS - format the HDD in MBR mode. Up to you.

I've found on laptops usually I prefer to have the NON UEFI system -- I often make PORTABLE Linux systems on external devices and if you have a UEFI OS the Linux boot loader gets written to the laptops HDD rather than to the external device. This can screwup Windows boot. However that's your choice. The thing is to ENSURE LEGACY BOOT if you want to be able to boot any type of OS from an external device and above all disable PROTECTED BOOT.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Juice370]

Easy when you know how!

I cleaned the 32GB cache drive with Parted Magic 'Secure Erase' feature to ensure sure everything was gone! I then used Diskpart to clean the main C drive SSD. Next was to set up UEFI again in the BIOS and installed the OS from the DVD again on C drive, however this time I used this key process 'Step 7 & 8' here: http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html which I hadn't even seen before. Ensuring that the UEFI drive had 4 partitions and the OS was installed on the correct partition.

Once the OS was installed, the cache drive was now completely empty (and awaiting RAID / IRST set-up, if and when I sell the laptop and replace the C drive SSD for the original SATA drive). And the UEFI OS was now only on the main SSD C drive 100%. At last!

So simple when you know...


Some useful resources for Dell users that have both a Hard Drive, plus a supporting Cache SSD drive:

ISRT: Intel Smart Response Technology Configuration | Dell US

Enabling SSD Cache drive: Enabling 32GB SSD Cache on XPS 2720 - Desktop General Hardware Forum - Desktop - Dell Community

Replacing the SSD Cache drive with a larger SSD drive: Adding msata drive to XPS8500 - Disk Drives (HDD, CD/DVD, Blu-ray) Forum - Disk Drives - Dell Community


Apologies to anyone trying to extract help from my monotonous thread. Thanks to all for your input esp. Saltgrass.

I may be back if the SATA drive install (when laptop sells) doesn't go according to plan.


P.S. Only just seen your post jimbo45, some good tips there, luckily I'd done as suggested, so all looks good at the minute.

 

[barend]

Made an emergency boot usb stick in W 8.1.
Tapping F2 @ logo works only once out of 25 times, and there's no obvious boot order setting in the bios.
How do I boot from the stick?

F12 nor F8 work...
In the F2 bios I saw it's set to "secure boot".
Should I change that?

 

[Saltgrass]

To boot a flash drive, you need to boot into the Bios and select the Boot Device Menu from there, or be able to use the F keys to open the Boot Device Menu. It is very hard, with the quick boots, to get responses from F keys. That is why I just go into the bios instead of trying to open the boot device menu.

As long as you are working with Windows 8, you do not have to disable Secure Boot or set anything to Legacy.

 

[genet]

How do I boot from the stick?

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4935-startup-options-menu-boot-windows-8-a.html

In the F2 bios I saw it's set to "secure boot".
Should I change that?

Do not change the default UEFI firmware (BIOS) settings (for example, the boot order of drives or Secure Boot).

 

[barend]

@ Saltgrass
- But how do I boot into the BIOS without using F2 ?

@genet
- How do I get to see this blue screen?
- I don't have a Windows disk, since the XPS 15 is a laptop.

Sorry if I ask the obvious, bought the notebook one week ago, find 8.1 still a bit baffling after trusted old 7...

 

[genet]

- How do I get to see this blue screen?

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4935-startup-options-menu-boot-windows-8-a.html

OPTION TWO

Boot to Advanced Startup Options from Power Menu in Windows 8 and 8.1

OPTION THREE

Boot to Advanced Startup Options from PC settings in Windows 8 and 8.1

 

[Saltgrass]

@ Saltgrass
- But how do I boot into the BIOS without using F2 ?

It depends on your system. On my ASUS motherboard, I use Delete.

And when you describe tapping the key during boot, it is almost more like releasing the key, since you are basically holding it down by tapping quickly enough.

But Genet's suggestion will also work if the USB drive is plugged in before you boot the system.

Edit: On my Dell system, F2 got me in, but I start tapping as soon as it looks like the restart has finished shutting down. If you wait for something to show on the screen, you are probably too late.

 

[barend]

@genet
But what if Windows won't startup properly?
Can I enter this menu to use my usb stick recovery?

@saltgrass
Thanks, it works as per your description.

 

[genet]

But what if Windows won't startup properly?
Can I enter this menu to use my usb stick recovery?

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4935-startup-options-menu-boot-windows-8-a.html

OPTION FIVE

Boot to Advanced Startup Options using a "Recovery Drive"

1. Boot from your created recovery USB flash drive.

2. If displayed, click/tap on your keyboard layout language.

3. You are now in the Startup Options menu at boot where you can choose what option you would like to do.

 

[barend]

OK, as I understand it's not possible to boot into a usb drive just to test "what if", but only from 8.1 itself or at the second failure to start...
Learned not trust to MS too much LOL...

 

[Clintlgm]

OK, as I understand it's not possible to boot into a usb drive just to test "what if", but only from 8.1 itself or at the second failure to start...
Learned not trust to MS too much LOL...

Read @genet last post, it clearly says that you should boot to your Recovery USB and select your language bringing to the start up Options menu?

 

[genet]

- Do not change the default UEFI firmware (BIOS) settings (for example, the boot order of drives).
- Connect your Windows 8/8.1 Recovery USB flash drive.
- Restart the computer.
- Press the correct key to enter the boot menu (see this link for help).
- Select your USB flash drive from the boot menu.