I have yet to meet anyone in person who actually likes it

[labeeman]

It looks like my ISP (COX) is downgrading to WIndow8 TOY system email has been down for over 12 hours and not expected to be up until Sunday morning.

 

[Mystere]

Jacy, Your arguments have a few interesting points, but the vast majority of them are either wrong, misunderstood, or are the same as they've always been.

You have always had to include a user name in Windows. What the heck are you talking about?

Customer Experience programs are optional, you can choose to participate or not (In the final version, it was required in betas, and always has been.. same with Windows 7 and XP as well).

GPS location services are optional and can be turned off.

You've also always had to install 3rd party Java, at least since Sun sued Microsoft to prevent them from including their own (XP SP1a was the result of this).

The Windows PDF reader is very basic, if you want advanced features, you need a commercial product.

I don't understand what the Classic Shell has to do with opening more than one program at a time. Classic shell does not do anything related to that.

 

[Jacy]

Interesting points?

1. A user name was not required until Win 7 – which gave you the option of using the same name as the computer – Win 8 insists on a different user name which shows up in uploads and NOT the computer name. Since I have a stand-alone computer and I know what my name is, why does Microsoft insist I have a user name at all?
2. Yes, Experience programs are options – exactly where in the instruction manual does it point out where all these MANY hidden options are?
3. Exactly where in the instruction manual can you find the hidden GPS locater options? More to the point – why does Microsoft want to know your location?
4. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Microsoft advertise the new Internet Explorer can be used without 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party add-ons?
5. Where in the instruction manual does it say that their new Windows pdf reader is BASIC?
6. Classic Shell can resize windows so I can have ‘more than two’ windows on the screen at the same time.
7. I believe Microsoft advertising for Windows 8 is border-line consumer fraud.
8. Oh, and exactly where is the instruction manual?
9. So, I’m not wrong. I don’t misunderstand and very little on Windows 8 is the same as it’s always been. What the heck are YOU talking about!

 

[gazz9496]

jacy just a a few things regarding your (list?).

point 6

Classic Shell can resize windows so I can have ‘more than two’ windows on the screen at the same time.

classic shell does nothing of the sort, you can open and resize as many standard applications as you want on the desktop windows has done this on it's own power since....(someone tell me i've only been using windows since 3.1), it does not and never will allow the opening of more than 2 metro apps side by side or allow you to resize those apps.

point 4, metro internet explorer doesn't allow addons/plugins of any kind, the other version on the desktop does however allow those.

point 3, google also has this option on thier search www.google.co.uk or .com, andriod/ios also set this to default on...many apps use this feature, however there is going to be new legislation in some countries (USA most recently) that prevents this without user consent, and the option is in pc settings.

point 2, again in pc settings.

point 1, some people i work with don't like that aspect, i kind of get where they are coming from as to access all the features of windows 8 you really do need a microsoft account,the local account doesn't open up the store or other apps, however win95/win/98/win2000/win me/xp/vista/win 7 all required a user name be it user/admin/dave/bob/joe

it's a security feature, it also allows the UAC to function correctly, and have multiple accounts.

point 8 has windows ever come with an instruction manual? that's what were here for

you seem frustrated with windows 8, but i get the impression whether wrongly or not that you hate microsoft more than you hate windows 8, i mention that because that's just how it sounds when you mention things like advertising. not having a dig here just an observation..

as much stick as i give windows 8 my issue with it is firmly focused on an aspect that is in my opinion not working quite the way it should or could work(see sig), perhaps you could take a step back and try to focus on what isn't working for you and we can offer advice here instead of having an argument.

this forum while open for debates is firmly focused on offering advice and support first and foremost, opinions are that of the posters and not of the forum community.

 

[Ray8]

So, I’m not wrong.

No you're not wrong but, unfortunately, if someone finds Windows 8 difficult, discouraging, or problematic, many are quick to point out that it's the user that is the problem, not the product. This of course happens with numerous products, but no where as often as with software or anything IT related.

The worst culprits are those with extensive IT experience or in the IT profession, who simply cannot fathom that someone could possibly have any difficulties with something that they see as second nature. It becomes even worse when one of their favourite bits of kit is questioned and then it becomes all out war. And IT experts are the last people you generally want to show/teach you how to do something, they often don't have the skills or the patience to teach.

I found a number of the installation aspects problematic and rather than clear sailing, required somewhat more effort than any previous Windows installation. Windows 8 does require you to provide much more information and it's not always readily obvious that you can bypass some of these things. Signing up to a Microsoft email account was one thing which completely caught me out and is something that was never previously required. There were also other similar things, I can't even open the calendar, unless I sign in to a Microsoft account.

So your concerns and points are fundamentally correct, and other points are indeed far from obvious to the average person. GPS tracking was never enabled in Windows 7, unless you chose to enable it, and it's not that easy to find if you don't know what to look for. Now if it is indeed a default setting (I haven't looked) then disabling it should be an easy thing for people to do (with an explanation as to what it's all about), but that may not be the case.

All you're doing is venting legitimate frustrations, but for the fanboys, it's a cause for apoplexy.

 

[gazz9496]

gps would be default on if it was pre setup by a moron at a shop, it gives you the option during installation and first time use as it does the other location services and such.

being a good boy(middle aged man) i disable it all as it should be opt in for a customer rather than opt out.

i have to deal with rather idiotic salesmen however that forget to mention the microsoft account part when they sell windows 8 which makes for some interesting phone calls when i call to ask them if they have a microsoft account...fun times, so i do understand where jacy is coming from there.

i hope my above post was as objective as i meant it, if it wasn't let me know and i'll fix it for next time.

 

[Coke Robot]

Interesting points?

1. A user name was not required until Win 7 – which gave you the option of using the same name as the computer – Win 8 insists on a different user name which shows up in uploads and NOT the computer name. Since I have a stand-alone computer and I know what my name is, why does Microsoft insist I have a user name at all?
2. Yes, Experience programs are options – exactly where in the instruction manual does it point out where all these MANY hidden options are?
3. Exactly where in the instruction manual can you find the hidden GPS locater options? More to the point – why does Microsoft want to know your location?
4. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Microsoft advertise the new Internet Explorer can be used without 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party add-ons?
5. Where in the instruction manual does it say that their new Windows pdf reader is BASIC?
6. Classic Shell can resize windows so I can have ‘more than two’ windows on the screen at the same time.
7. I believe Microsoft advertising for Windows 8 is border-line consumer fraud.
8. Oh, and exactly where is the instruction manual?
9. So, I’m not wrong. I don’t misunderstand and very little on Windows 8 is the same as it’s always been. What the heck are YOU talking about!

I don't think I've ever seen that on 7 where it doesn't require a user name and you can use your computer name. I remember for sure that it wouldn't let you, just as 8 does.

In the first OOBE screen, you are ASKED if you want to use the Express Settings (which include the customer experience program setting as well as GPS setting) or you're allowed to customize those individual settings.

GPS location services are used by the metro apps, IF they use them. For example, Bing Weather will ask if you allow it to use your location, as well as other apps. Microsoft isn't concerned where you're at, even still, when you run Windows Updates regardless of Windows version, they know your IP address and therefore your general location, as well as some other hardware info.

The metro version of IE doesn't use third party addons, as that's different from the Desktop version, which again, you can change a couple of settings to have Desktop IE open everything by default on the Desktop.

Windows Reader is basic, this should be obvious. Windows never had a built in pdf reader to start with, and the one that is installed is decent enough to use for most instances. Don't like it? Install Adobe Reader and be done with it. No need to make a big deal over something menial.

Microsoft advertising for Windows 8 being border-line consumer fraud? I'm sorry, but you just lost credibility. Windows 8 is their latest product release, and they're a business and therefore have to advertise their new product release so PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT.

The instruction manual? Didn't know we were living in 1995.... If you need a manual. there is thing called the Settings Charm, where either on the Desktop, or Start Screen, you can find out how to navigate Windows 8 under Help. Using the Settings Charm again, Help will be used in apps.

And no, Windows 8, when you break it down logically, is just a Windows 7 2.0 with a king sized start menu that is visual.

 

[gazz9496]

come on coke robot be realistic...the start menu isn't king size, it's super duper size

 

[Coke Robot]

come on coke robot be realistic...the start menu isn't king size, it's super duper size

This is true.

 

[gazz9496]

come on coke robot be realistic...the start menu isn't king size, it's super duper size

This is true.

now all they need to add to metro is some flexibility and bam perfect

 

[Ray8]

Here's my Windows 7 start menu (not including what's on my taskbar):



Here's a typical Windows 8 start menu (all apps - from the web), but indicative of what mine would look like:



For some reason I really like my Windows 7 version over what Windows 8 demands.

 

[gazz9496]

the apps section can get rather busy once you start really using the system, it needs a lot of house keeping.

not a problem but does detract from the overall experience.

 

[Coke Robot]

Here's my Windows 7 start menu (not including what's on my taskbar):

View attachment 12934

Here's a typical Windows 8 start menu (all apps - from the web), but indicative of what mine would look like:

View attachment 12935

For some reason I really like my Windows 7 version over what Windows 8 demands.

That actually looks EXACTLY like my old start menu. :shock:





The start menu needed some housekeeping, just as the Start Screen and All apps do. Except, it's easier with All apps as you can open the file location of ANY file on either Start or Apps by right clicking on a tile. Then, you can use Explorer to drag and highlight redundant files to get rid of them quicker than going one by one on the start menu. Today, I tried to do the same thing on 7 as I do with 8, it doesn't seem to work that way...

 

[Coke Robot]

come on coke robot be realistic...the start menu isn't king size, it's super duper size

This is true.

now all they need to add to metro is some flexibility and bam perfect

This is also true.

 

[Ray8]

Windows 8 requires me to go to the desktop every time that I want to open a new program, with Windows 7, I just click on a taskbar icon, or the start button and select a program. This is much more efficient than going to another page to reveal the Windows 8 start menu and look for what I need.

The Windows 8 menu is perfect for mobile phones, as you are restricted by the screen size, so you need to maximise the visual cues for what you're looking for, and the touch experience is ideal, as you can sweep across the screen for groups of icons. This process gives you 'chunks' of information that is easy to digest on a small screen, but becomes cluttered and tedious on a large screen where you see everything at once.

When is Microsoft going to introduce a dual, triple etc screen mobile phone, so that we can use the Modern apps across multiple screens?

 

[Coke Robot]

Windows 8 requires me to go to the desktop every time that I want to open a new program, with Windows 7, I just click on a taskbar icon, or the start button and select a program. This is much more efficient than going to another page to reveal the Windows 8 start menu and look for what I need.

The Windows 8 menu is perfect for mobile phones, as you are restricted by the screen size, so you need to maximise the visual cues for what you're looking for, and the touch experience is ideal, as you can sweep across the screen for groups of icons. This process gives you 'chunks' of information that is easy to digest on a small screen, but becomes cluttered and tedious on a large screen where you see everything at once.

When is Microsoft going to introduce a dual, triple etc screen mobile phone, so that we can use the Modern apps across multiple screens?

You know the Taskbar works EXACTLY the same as in 7?

 

[Ray8]

You know the Taskbar works EXACTLY the same as in 7?

Quite! But there is no taskbar in the Modern interface. You know exactly what I'm referring to and these tactics based around semantics, to support your case, are pretty weak.

 

[Coke Robot]

You know the Taskbar works EXACTLY the same as in 7?

Quite! But there is no taskbar in the Modern interface. You know exactly what I'm referring to and these tactics based around semantics, to support your case, are pretty weak.

You arguments are getting weaker by every post. You're trying to make Windows 8 out to be something that is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY different than how it can be used.

No Taskbar in the metro UI? There is one. Granted, it's always visible, but not difficult in the slightest to evoke it. Let alone app switching, move the cursor to the top left corner and click if, :winkey: + Tab, Alt + Tab to move across everything. To me, you're sounding like Windows 8 is more difficult than it is.

And I don't understand how the Taskbar working the same in 8 as it does in 7 is a weak argument. Umm, that's a factual statement. Pin what you have on your Taskbar in 7 onto 8, move your All Programs list to Start, there you go, not difficult whatsoever to use.

Or at least, THAT'S JUST ME....

 

[Ray8]

No matter what you say, you're not going to wind me up. The evidence speaks for itself and you are the one clutching at straws in an attempt to shoot down any and every criticism of Windows 8.

Every time that you try to shoot down a critic, you pick on some relatively minor point, or play with semantics, rather than addressing the entire picture that is being painted.

Seriously, the Taskbar wasn't the only thing that I mentioned, yet that's what you fixated on. You thought that you had an easy win, but things aren't that easy when that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Coke Robot]

No matter what you say, you're not going to wind me up. The evidence speaks for itself and you are the one clutching at straws in an attempt to shoot down any and every criticism of Windows 8.

Every time that you try to shoot down a critic, you pick on some relatively minor point, or play with semantics, rather than addressing the entire picture that is being painted.

Seriously, the Taskbar wasn't the only thing that I mentioned, yet that's what you fixated on. You thought that you had an easy win, but things aren't that easy when that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Oh boy, you're a little over the top today huh?

Um no, I fixated on the Taskbar because I said after you were suggesting (at least it came across to me) that it's not possible to use the Taskbar on the Desktop as you showed what you have in your All Programs list, not including what's on the Taskbar. I said, "You know the Taskbar works EXACTLY the same as in 7?" Then YOU said, "Quite! But there is no taskbar in the Modern interface. You know exactly what I'm referring to and these tactics based around semantics, to support your case, are pretty weak."

I have little idea as to what you're EXACTLY referring to as I'm referencing how the Taskbar is used in the same way as it did in 7. I really don't know what else I'm supposed to know as I'm not following this thread to the T to know what you're saying. So please, enlighten me, as you're trying to put words in my mouth that weren't ever there. I take offense.

Now as for your statement as for me going for some "relatively minor point," yeah I guess I do. To me, the Start Screen isn't a major over the top change as the bloody thing can be used JUST like the start menu, but bigger, full screen and visual. I guess to you, this is a minor point or something you refuse to understand or refuse to admit for the sake of keeping something the same that worked for YOU.

And yes, I do address the smaller points as that's what makes the bigger picture. Or that's what I know of, I don't know what picture you're looking at. Maybe it's just because I've probably used Windows 8 longer than you've probably used it on a daily basis (arrogant and presumptuous yes, but aren't we all) that I understand it so well to knock down blatant criticism of it, which from what I've seen recently, it's because not everyone understands the changes or used it for 20 minutes. I do, as that's why I can pinpoint minute details and break them down logically versus telling the person to install Classic Shell because that person can't get off their high horse and learn something different because there's no point to it or whatever.

But that's JUST ME....