Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1

Consider the following: Internet Explorer 11 is available as a preview for Windows 7 or as part of the Windows 8.1 preview, but not for Windows 8. Similarly, PowerShell 4 will run on Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, but not Windows 8 — even though it will be available for Windows Server 2012, which is the same core code as Windows 8.

So does this mean Microsoft giving up on Windows 8? Um, no.
Windows 8.1 is Windows 8, as far as Microsoft is concerned. It's an update to Windows 8 that will be available in the Windows Store, free of charge. It has new APIs that aren't in Windows 8 that Internet Explorer can use.
[h=3]Read this[/h]
Windows 8.1 unveiled: will it change your mind about Windows 8?

The Start button is back. But that's just one of a very long list of changes you'll find in Windows 8.1, which will be available as a preview in a few weeks and will be released before the end of the year. Don't let the name or the price tag (free) fool you: this is a major update. Here's what's inside.

• Read more

Microsoft will port some — but not all — of those back to Windows 7 for IE 11; as we understand it, the HTML5 Media Source Extensions and Encrypted Media Extensions support that lets you stream Netflix in IE 11 without needing a plugin won't make it to Windows 7.

Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1 | ZDNet

 

[Cr00zng]

As long as the switching between the two GUIs is instantaneous even on my old laptop, I really don't care what is behind it. The benefits outweigh the memory implication, especially nowadays when memory is plenty.
Calling it "MSDOS Virtual Machine" is a stretch, even if I fondly recall my Windows 3.11 machine...

Actually the MSDOS VM isn't really a stretch. They use the same methodology when moving to 32 bit and 64 bit Windows. Those 16 bit apps ran in a 16 bit Windows VM, and same for 32 bit apps in 64 bit Windows. That's why even compatibility mode doesn't work for some Windows apps.

Actually, starting with IA-32 CPUs the virtual environment is called NTVDM that capable to execute 16-bit programs within the 32-bit OS. The 64-bit OS does not include NTVDM, but you could try running 16-bit programs in the "XP-mode" with limited amount of memory available for the program.

As for the memory, it does matter to some. I have friends that have video businesses they run on the side of their day jobs. They can eat up an entire 16GB is seconds while editing and start swapping to the HD. Gamers can claim the same with some games. So folks care if there is extra code just dangling out there for no apparent reason.

In order to use that much memory, 16GBs, your friends are using a 64-bits OS and program, where the MSDOSVM does not come into picture at all. Specific purpose requires specific machines, with fast CPU(s), ample amount of memory, and RAID/SSD drives. Doubling the memory in your friends machine certainly delay swapping to the HDD.

Please don't get me wrong, I like the Modern UI, on a tablet. I loved Windows RT, there just weren't any mature apps when compared to their cousins on Android and iOS. That problem hopefully will resolve itself, if the sales ever pick up. My point is there is no reason to have your mobile interface dangling there in your desktop world like an unwanted wart. Honestly, the ideal solution would not be to get rid of it either, the ideal, and what they should have done, is given folks the option to keep it or run with just desktop and unload that tablet interface. They can still easily design that in the future. No eco system changes, Modern UI lives on. As I stated before, if Modern UI can't stand on its own in the mobile world without the desktop, it's dead already.

I understand that you'd want as little clutter as possible for the OS to reserve most of the resources to the applications. I just don't believe that an overworked machine would work better with the addition of 100-200 MBs memory used by Windows 8, especially, when you already have 16 GBs.

For the general population, this will cause no issues and some people may end up liking the two different GUIs. I for one do, even if I don't use the start up as much as I used to...

 

[saurabh808]

start button is back but not the old start menu lol why dey put the button its better without it

 

[jimbo45]

start button is back but not the old start menu lol why dey put the button its better without it

Hi there.

Have you ACTULLY USED IT - if not how can you POSSIBLY say it's useless.

If you actually TRY windows 8.1 before ranting on about it you would understand the following.

1) There are essentially TWO start screens now - the standard one that looks like the current windows 8 and a SECOND one which contains all your windows applications -- these are arranged by category / or a few other user selectable criteria and have much smaller tiles - even on a smallish screen you get a load more VERTICALLY so you don't need to scroll a lot if at all now.

2) In the Navigation selection (Via control panel) you can select which screen will appear first when you choose START. If you set the applications screen then the Start button will show that screen -- IMO it's just as good as a menu and in any case on EITHER Screen the search function is far better than W7 - just type a letter or two ANYWHERE on the screen and the search should find your application.

3) Boot directly to desktop can be selected and the corner navigation switched off if you want -- for non touch users this can be a good idea so the start button is helpful when you need to go into those start screens.

Note that on Windows 8.1 applications (windows desktop applications) are installed to the APPLICATIONS screen so you won't see them on the W8 type of start screen. You can pin them to that screen if you want or the task bar / desktop just like W8. However after installing stuff if you aren't aware of this then you won't see your applications.

Metro apps are still a mess of course for desktop users but Windows 8.1 addresses a lot of the problems that SHOULD have been fixed in W8. IE11 is still also not ready for prime time either but on the whole W8.1 is a definite worthwhile upgrade from W8 (once IE11 is fixed).

I DO wish people wouldn't Pontificate about stuff they obviously haven't actually TRIED. Speculating on what a feature MIGHT do or NOT do before the product is available is fine - nobody has any arguments with that - but now the product IS available do try first before ranting on.

Also using decent custom toolbars gives you just as quick access to your applications from the desktop if you don't want to go into the applications screen. The Classical menu feature of W7 etc is IMO much overhyped and looks REDICULOUS when you ate using a 60 / 72 inch monitor which a lot of us do have these days -- it's stupid even on a 40 inch or so screen too - relatively common sizes now.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[MrBill]

Jimbo,

Some of your points are good, like number 1, 2 and 3. I do think the idea of having to search for an app is a bad thing. The idea of a GUI is to not have to type in the app name. When we get to that point we might as well go command line with script files.

You also make a great point about trying 8.1. It is still beta, and those who haven't tried it should hold opinion until it releases later this month. I actually went back to Windows 7 until Windows 8.1 comes out and we see what bugs did not get fixed, or what new ones might show up. My new machine came with Windows 8 but had Windows 7 drivers as an option. Since it is my primary thought it better to stay with a stable OS instead of the beta, but Windows 8 itself was just too odd, to lack a better adjective.

 

[dustbuster]

Also, Microsoft blocked start8 software from the 8.1 version. So, bye bye aftermarket start button!

 

[jimbo45]

Also, Microsoft blocked start8 software from the 8.1 version. So, bye bye aftermarket start button!

Hi there
Classic Shell (or whatever it's called these days) still works fine if you need to use that type of assistance on W8.1 (and It's FREE).

I started using classic shell on W8 - but once I got used to W8 (and better W8.1) I found I didn't need that option any more but if you do it still works.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[skallal]

Also, Microsoft blocked start8 software from the 8.1 version. So, bye bye aftermarket start button!

Start8 still works with the Windows 8.1 Preview. But it requires the latest beta version. We'll know more when Windows 8.1 RTM is released, whether or not MS blocks it. I doubt it will be blocked...

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Ms doesn't BLOCK software -- that's one of the reasons Windows was such a successful platform -- anybody can write applications for it.

If Ms really wanted to block software it surely would prevent things like Utorrent from running wouldn't it. Just because a program fails to run on a newer version of windows doesn't mean it's been blocked -- often older programs don't run on newer versions of the OS for all sorts of legitimate reasons such as calls to features that have been changed or don't exist any more etc-- that's one of the major uses of Virtual Machines where a previous version of the OS can be kept running while using the current version.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[goodintentions]

To all of those who think you can't live without the start menu, I highly encourage you to try to go a month without the start menu. Give the search function a chance.

When I first got 8, the first thing I did was install classic shell. After 3 months with 8, I noticed something. I never touch the start menu at all. I use visual studio on a regular basis. got half a dozen apps in the winstore. All I do to launch visual studio is type in visual studio really fast in the search and enter. That is a lot quicker than go through the start menu.

You really should give it a chance. Don't just go on with the preconceived notion that you will hate it. Really give it a chance.

And jimbo, I remember you complaining a while back that you couldn't find visual studio in the search function. Is this correct?

 

[jimbo45]

To all of those who think you can't live without the start menu, I highly encourage you to try to go a month without the start menu. Give the search function a chance.

When I first got 8, the first thing I did was install classic shell. After 3 months with 8, I noticed something. I never touch the start menu at all. I use visual studio on a regular basis. got half a dozen apps in the winstore. All I do to launch visual studio is type in visual studio really fast in the search and enter. That is a lot quicker than go through the start menu.

You really should give it a chance. Don't just go on with the preconceived notion that you will hate it. Really give it a chance.

And jimbo, I remember you complaining a while back that you couldn't find visual studio in the search function. Is this correct?

Hi there

No -- I think it was that unless you are warned - applications on W8.1 go to the APPLICATION screen not the start screen so after installing stuff if you look on the START screen you won't see it.

You can set the navigation to show the applications screen when you navigate to Start so it's much BETTER - but if you aren't aware of the change you could be confused as to where you application has gone !!. (Of course after installation you CAN pin to start menu if you really want to).

If you MUST have a menu the custom toolbars work just fine but a menu isn't really necessary IMO for the typical number of applications a user has -- just pin to taskbar and / or desktop and set Boot straight to desktop.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[goodintentions]

To all of those who think you can't live without the start menu, I highly encourage you to try to go a month without the start menu. Give the search function a chance.

When I first got 8, the first thing I did was install classic shell. After 3 months with 8, I noticed something. I never touch the start menu at all. I use visual studio on a regular basis. got half a dozen apps in the winstore. All I do to launch visual studio is type in visual studio really fast in the search and enter. That is a lot quicker than go through the start menu.

You really should give it a chance. Don't just go on with the preconceived notion that you will hate it. Really give it a chance.

And jimbo, I remember you complaining a while back that you couldn't find visual studio in the search function. Is this correct?

Hi there

No -- I think it was that unless you are warned - applications on W8.1 go to the APPLICATION screen not the start screen so after installing stuff if you look on the START screen you won't see it.

You can set the navigation to show the applications screen when you navigate to Start so it's much BETTER - but if you aren't aware of the change you could be confused as to where you application has gone !!. (Of course after installation you CAN pin to start menu if you really want to).

If you MUST have a menu the custom toolbars work just fine but a menu isn't really necessary IMO for the typical number of applications a user has -- just pin to taskbar and / or desktop and set Boot straight to desktop.

Cheers
jimbo

I could have sworn I read one of your posts where you complained that you couldn't find visual studio or something like that in the search function.

 

[CountMike]

In the post #23 Jimbo made very valid arguments. I personally use one (main) computer with Win8 (just waiting for full and final version of 8.1) and another one with 8.1 installed, (actually 2, but one is in the basement) and have no trouble switching between them, actualy not even paying attention to differences. it's just no big deal at all. Just see no reason for people getting their panties (or shorts) in knots.

 

[XweAponX]

Hi there
Ms doesn't BLOCK software -- that's one of the reasons Windows was such a successful platform -- anybody can write applications for it.

If Ms really wanted to block software it surely would prevent things like Utorrent from running wouldn't it. Just because a program fails to run on a newer version of windows doesn't mean it's been blocked -- often older programs don't run on newer versions of the OS for all sorts of legitimate reasons such as calls to features that have been changed or don't exist any more etc-- that's one of the major uses of Virtual Machines where a previous version of the OS can be kept running while using the current version.

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo, ya know what's interesting, I tried to install uTorrent on a system a week ago, that I had just installed Windows 7 onto - And it was BLOCKED. I think it was IE 11, which has that Smart Protection thing.

I have no intention of installing 8.1 at all at this point. I think what will happen when it gets released, if we find out that Start8 is blocked, it will piddle OFF a lot of people and they'll just stick with Windows 8.

There really isn't anything wrong with 8, not for me. But I won't be FORCED to use any OS I don't want. So far, the Problems I've read about here by people installing 8.1 preview have already made me decide not to ever use it.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Ms doesn't BLOCK software -- that's one of the reasons Windows was such a successful platform -- anybody can write applications for it.

If Ms really wanted to block software it surely would prevent things like Utorrent from running wouldn't it. Just because a program fails to run on a newer version of windows doesn't mean it's been blocked -- often older programs don't run on newer versions of the OS for all sorts of legitimate reasons such as calls to features that have been changed or don't exist any more etc-- that's one of the major uses of Virtual Machines where a previous version of the OS can be kept running while using the current version.

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo, ya know what's interesting, I tried to install uTorrent on a system a week ago, that I had just installed Windows 7 onto - And it was BLOCKED. I think it was IE 11, which has that Smart Protection thing.

I have no intention of installing 8.1 at all at this point. I think what will happen when it gets released, if we find out that Start8 is blocked, it will piddle OFF a lot of people and they'll just stick with Windows 8.

There really isn't anything wrong with 8, not for me. But I won't be FORCED to use any OS I don't want. So far, the Problems I've read about here by people installing 8.1 preview have already made me decide not to ever use it.

Hi there

UTorrent doesn't use IE11 -- IE11 or more probably the ISP might have blocked the torrent SITE you were trying to use -- the default setting for IE11 tends to have the security rather too high -- you can easily adjust it (turn off enhanced security - or some option like that) - however all utorrent does is download the files from the TRACKERS - which if they are being blocked by IE11 / firewalls - that's totally another issue.

There's plenty of reasons to LIKE or DISLIKE any OS - but at least one should present VALID criticisms.

I don't have any trouble with reaching the sites or using uTorrent with IE11 -- my main problem with IE11 is some of the rendering on various web sites doesn't work properly -


IE11 on W8.1 Enterprise version X-64 accessing Pirate bay and utorrent. If the site is blocked in your country that's another matter and nothing to do with IE11.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[skallal]

To all of those who think you can't live without the start menu, I highly encourage you to try to go a month without the start menu. Give the search function a chance.

I also been running the 8.1 preview and have run without Start8 on it for a few weeks. I capitulated yesterday and put the Start8 beta back on the preview so I could make sure it truly was working before I made the post (#27) above.

That said, the 8.1 preview is the best start menu implementation I have seen from Microsoft, without using an add-on. I think it's almost there. In fact with Start8, you can unselect the Windows 7 style menu and choose the Windows 8 style menu, which effectively removes many of the functions of Start8 without having to uninstall it. I can almost live without Start8, using the Windows 8.1 preview as it currently stands.

Also kudos to jumbo for post # 23! I think it's one of the most fair assessments of the 8.1 preview I've seen so far!

 

[aqibaslam123]

I love windows 8. I don't know what's wrong with the user interfrace about windows 8. 8.1 is also cool. I used it for a while, but then downgraded back to 8. But I loved it. I just didn't wanted to use the preview. Well the start screen is awesome.

 

[jimbo45]

To all of those who think you can't live without the start menu, I highly encourage you to try to go a month without the start menu. Give the search function a chance.

When I first got 8, the first thing I did was install classic shell. After 3 months with 8, I noticed something. I never touch the start menu at all. I use visual studio on a regular basis. got half a dozen apps in the winstore. All I do to launch visual studio is type in visual studio really fast in the search and enter. That is a lot quicker than go through the start menu.

You really should give it a chance. Don't just go on with the preconceived notion that you will hate it. Really give it a chance.

And jimbo, I remember you complaining a while back that you couldn't find visual studio in the search function. Is this correct?

Hi there
It wasn't the SEARCH - it was before I understood that applications in W8.1 are installed to the APPLICATION screen and not the start screen - so I was surprised after going to the start screen and couldn't see the application I'd just installed.

However I set START to navigate to the APPLICATION screen first -- and I boot directly to desktop so I NEVER need to see the Metro junk or even use it.

Apart from movies I rarely need to work in FULL SCREEN mode -- especially if I've only got ONE monitor. The other B/S with METRO is that say you have 3 monitors - why can't you run TWO Metro apps on different monitors (one each in full screen mode) and the 3rd for example for classical windows applications.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[alkaufmann]

I followed advice and installed the 8.1 preview on an old machine. Everything installed fine, even some unknown device that Windows 7 not could install was working. This 8.1 started up much faster than Windows 7 and everything works fine. The only thing I did not like was that I had to sign on to my system with a Microsoft e-mail account and I could not change that even after 8.1 installed. I read here somewhere that the RTM version will not have this requirement. I hope so because I know corporations that have machines they never connect to the Internet because of privacy and/or security concerns.

I think 8.1 is a bit better than 8 and I will wait until the release update appears in the store.

 

[Superfly]

The only thing I did not like was that I had to sign on to my system with a Microsoft e-mail account and I could not change that even after 8.1 installed.

It is not a requirement you can change it to a local account

 

[alkaufmann]

I did try to create a local account with administrator rights and it would not let me do that. I wanted to delete the Microsoft account log in. Considering all the e-mails I get that look like they come from the "MS Team" threatening to close my account unless I provide them all my details as well as my password, I do not consider my MS e-mail account as secure.

When I installed 8.1 I was called by phone and given a number to enter to verify my identity. All the security in the world will not work if the Microsoft people tape their passwords to the monitor or the desk.


The 8.1 update won't work on my machine if I am required to use a Microsoft e-mail account to log in to my machine; I have a username and a password.