Complaints about Windows 8 appear to be mostly lack of knowledge

[Coke Robot]

I personally like the Ribbon in Explorer. I do a lot of file management and I find it's faster and easier to to just click on commands versus keyboard commands. That's one for me. I'm liking the apps too, I love the cleanness of the designs of them and live tiles as well. Granted, you can just some the Desktop internet counterparts for some of them, but it's not really the same.

Reset and Refresh are definitely nice to have, and the overall emphasis of minimizing system resource as much as possible is a biggie for me. I'd rather use those resources for Photoshop or gaming versus just running an OS.

Then there's using it on a touchscreen. WOW!

 

[CalBear]

You're right although new display seems much easier to use.

 

[Coke Robot]

Yeah, newer touchscreen displays are better than ones for Windows 7, as raised bevel around the screen is a HUGE PAIN IN MY BUTT.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
my problem with this type of argument is that everybody tends to use a computer for different things -- if you are say primarily a tablet or a smartphone user you could possibly say why do I even NEED a computer at all-- and for email, casual surfing, film / TV watching via "Iplayer" type of apps, music, or even E-reading (although I think e-readers are better for this though) then you probably don't need a full blown computer and metro may well be really suitable for you.

Now when I try and explain what I need a computer for, I can show at least ONE application I use daily that I'd be surprised if AS MUCH AS 5% of even experienced windows users had ever even heard of much less actually USED it -- SAP/ERM (as well as SAP CRM) - and so would not have a clue about the difficulties of "Metroizing" something like this.

Now we have several sites all with the usual DEV, ACC, PROD type environments and can have 5 simultaneous sessions open on each system (and I NEED this) -- all needed on windowed simultaneous sessions across 2 or 3 monitors

At the same time I would have say 3 browser sessions open, maybe two or 3 spread sheets, various emails and often other stuff as well.

This type of work very definitely requires TWO monitors (minimum) - sometimes 3 If I need to see server logs at the same time.

Another case -- Photoshop users preparing large PROFESSIONAL quality RAW files for magazines etc - where the photoshop processing is exceedingly complex and you are using loads of layers --no way is full single screen metro operation going to work properly.

There is no way whatsoever could I even THINK of using METRO for this type of stuff.

The problem here is that people have their own ideas of how metro works for them and it should work just as easily for everybody else.

But IT DOESN'T - and that's not ignorance of what Metro is or isn't.

Metro is designed first and foremost as a MOBILE (or tablet) OS .

I can make it function at home as a Desktop OS - although it takes a bit of effort and for some things it's fine.

But in the work environment I've outlined - especially if you are using multi-session back end systems like SAP etc then there's no way in a million years I'd even THINK about using W8. W7 works just fine for that environment (even XP was fine too although the 32 bit restriction was the push for our W7 upgrade to 64 bit operation).


Windows really needs to sort this mess out -- a standard interface might be fine in theory -- I don't have anything against that -- my issue is the cackhanded manner in which it seems to be implemented. -- Even from the small example I gave above you can see that there are two totally different sets of users now in the Windows world and "Never the twain shall meet" as the old expression goes.

If MS can sort this out W8 could be a winner --fast slick decent security --and from what I've seen of the new Windows phones -- Samsung and Apple -- Nokia might just like Lazarus - arise from the dead.

Remember in all this "Hate / Do not Hate" discussions try and understand what the user wants to DO on their computer -- once you've understood that you can probably get to grips with very real issues that W8 poses -- rather than just say everybody who isn't upgrading is some type of old Dinosaur who would still be using Windows 3.11 if they still could. (Actually you can on a VM -- but that's another issue).


Cheers
jimbo

 

[Fredledingue]

Another case -- Photoshop users preparing large PROFESSIONAL quality RAW files for magazines etc - where the photoshop processing is exceedingly complex and you are using loads of layers --no way is full single screen metro operation going to work properly

[sarcasm] No matter what, Metro aka Modern UI is THE FUTURE and you will have to live with it. LOL.

In W9 you still may see some remnant of the Desktop but in W10 probably not (all codes to resize windows and display captions and taskbar will be removed definitively) and in W11 they will also remove the scroll bar. Only App Store softwares will be supported. All software vendor will have to write Metro versions. [/sarcasm] W8

rocks!

 

[jimbo45]

Another case -- Photoshop users preparing large PROFESSIONAL quality RAW files for magazines etc - where the photoshop processing is exceedingly complex and you are using loads of layers --no way is full single screen metro operation going to work properly

[sarcasm] No matter what, Metro aka Modern UI is THE FUTURE and you will have to live with it. LOL.

In W9 you still may see some remnant of the Desktop but in W10 probably not (all codes to resize windows and display captions and taskbar will be removed definitively) and in W11 they will also remove the scroll bar. Only App Store softwares will be supported. All software vendor will have to write Metro versions. [/sarcasm] W8

rocks!

Hi there
I don't think you either READ or UNDERSTOOD my post.
Unless you have used a backend system like SAP which you have actually LOGGED ON TO you really wouldn't be in any sort of position to even UNDERSTAND what problem these types of systems have in being used on W8 -- and to say "Well it's just the future -- get used to it" doesn't really help anybody.

I'll probably get warned again for being "Unkind" to a Forum member -- I'm not actually having a go at you but trying to suggest that unless you really KNOW what a person has to do on their computer you aren't in a credible position to give an answer.

We need proper sensible solutions. -- Your "suggestion" doesn't actually help anybody one tiny little bit.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Another case -- Photoshop users preparing large PROFESSIONAL quality RAW files for magazines etc - where the photoshop processing is exceedingly complex and you are using loads of layers --no way is full single screen metro operation going to work properly

[sarcasm] No matter what, Metro aka Modern UI is THE FUTURE and you will have to live with it. LOL.

In W9 you still may see some remnant of the Desktop but in W10 probably not (all codes to resize windows and display captions and taskbar will be removed definitively) and in W11 they will also remove the scroll bar. Only App Store softwares will be supported. All software vendor will have to write Metro versions. [/sarcasm] W8

rocks!

Hi there
I don't think you either READ or UNDERSTOOD my post.
Unless you have used a backend system like SAP which you have actually LOGGED ON TO you really wouldn't be in any sort of position to even UNDERSTAND what problem these types of systems have in being used on W8 -- and to say "Well it's just the future -- get used to it" doesn't really help anybody.

I'll probably get warned again for being "Unkind" to a Forum member -- I'm not actually having a go at you but trying to suggest that unless you really KNOW what a person has to do on their computer you aren't in a credible position to give an answer.

We need proper sensible solutions. -- Your "suggestion" doesn't actually help anybody one tiny little bit.

Cheers
jimbo

Very well put. For what it's worth, I'll back you up 100% in your response, jimbo. I know we have to be kind and considerate to one another in our posts, but one should not have to live in fear of getting written up.

I received an infraction shortly after I joined. Not a joyous experience to say the least. Totally my fault, I'll admit. With me and my "Chicago-cocky-type" personality I learned very quick on how NOT to post. It wasn't so much what I was saying, it was how I said it. The name calling I did was definitely a big NO NO. I now try to read and understand what one is conveying, think about it for a while, and then post.

I'm not trying to butter you nor anyone up here, but I think you have one of the best perspective as a Pro of most of the members here. I like your outlook that "This is what it is and the solutions may be possible". :thumb: We cannot make 8 what it isn't and I can see it definitely doesn't fit the Pros needs.

 

[Fredledingue]

Hi Jimbo, It was "sarcasm", ironical comments. Yet, inspired by "serious" comments I read elswhere on this forum. Not far off.

 

[Kebero]

Jimbo: desktop apps, such as Office, VMware Player, Photoshop, etc aren't going to open in the Windows 8 UI - they're going to open on the desktop.

 

[CB]

Jimbo: desktop apps, such as Office, VMware Player, Photoshop, etc aren't going to open in the Windows 8 UI - they're going to open on the desktop.

You made the point Kebero.

I think that is the point what many people concern about.
No matter how good Metro is going to be (see it progressing), as long as it can't accommodate multiply screens and multiple opened application windows (cascaded or tiled). Then desktop or the like will stay as one of many user preferences.

Sounds so logical to me

 

[R0bR]

But IT DOESN'T - and that's not ignorance of what Metro is or isn't.

Yes it is ignorance. It seems users are having a hard time to differentiate between desktop applications and Metro Apps. Your speaking as if Microsoft is looking to get rid of the desktop eventually and just have Metro, it's not going to happen. Microsoft's vision for tablets has always been that the desktop should not be sacrificed just because you are running Windows on a tablet. If that's their vision for tablets then why would they get rid of the desktop on a workstation? Desktop applications will remain, Metro Apps will mostly be for content consumption and seeing some of the iPad apps certain productivity apps can work well also depending on the industry.

 

[Coke Robot]

Another case -- Photoshop users preparing large PROFESSIONAL quality RAW files for magazines etc - where the photoshop processing is exceedingly complex and you are using loads of layers --no way is full single screen metro operation going to work properly.

There is no way whatsoever could I even THINK of using METRO for this type of stuff.

The problem here is that people have their own ideas of how metro works for them and it should work just as easily for everybody else.

But IT DOESN'T - and that's not ignorance of what Metro is or isn't.


jimbo

I think that's where the lack of knowledge part comes in. No, you really can't do that with a metro styled app as there isn't one in a WinRT environment. But the fact remains that Windows 8 is still a Desktop based OS regardless of the Start Screen or metro apps. It's still the backbone of it. Yes, it is more touch based, but Windows has been for some time already. Yes, you need to do a bit of work to get things more for the Desktop, but the Start Screen already lends itself out to configuration for such.

 

[Coke Robot]

Or it could be that some people just refuse to learn something different and are better suited to just learn new features, versus a new UI....

 

[Kebero]

It's not a preference, it's how Windows 8 works.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

 

[Fredledingue]

No matter how good Metro is going to be (see it progressing), as long as it can't accommodate multiply screens and multiple opened application windows (cascaded or tiled). Then desktop or the like will stay as one of many user preferences.

They already introduced a way to run two Metro apps side by side on the Metro UI. Thought it's not obvious and you need xyz resolution or 2 monitors (I don't remember). I expect them to add support for more multiple windows in the Metro UI (perhaps dividing the screen area by 2, 4, 6 and 8), adding some sort of pinning (where you could pin an open app into a corner for quick access), resizing (!) and finaly make it look more and more like a desktop while making paintaking effort to keep it different from the normal desktop. Then they will be able to advertise "great improvement" in UI... LOL.

 

[mcnulty]

I'm not paying for a system that gives me nothing of value and forces a touch UI that I don't want or need. But sure, yeah, you know better than me what I want, so it must be that I lack knowledge, whatever that means.

 

[Mystere]

Now when I try and explain what I need a computer for, I can show at least ONE application I use daily that I'd be surprised if AS MUCH AS 5% of even experienced windows users had ever even heard of much less actually USED it -- SAP/ERM (as well as SAP CRM) - and so would not have a clue about the difficulties of "Metroizing" something like this.

It's funny you say this, as I just heard the CEO of SAP today talking about their new releases of apps for tablets and phones. It seems that even SAP thinks this is the way of the future.

 

[whs]

The SAP applications are mostely industrial applications. For those it may be handy to use e.g. a tablet on the shopfloor rather than a full blown laptop.

 

[jimbo45]

The SAP applications are mostely industrial applications. For those it may be handy to use e.g. a tablet on the shopfloor rather than a full blown laptop.

Hi there
SAP applications aren't at all always industrial.

For example a huge amount are CRM / SRM type stuff (Shopping Carts etc), BW (Business Warehouse) type of applications -- these type of applications retrieve data for management as statistical stuff (for example footfall at shopping malls etc -- you can't do this stuff via Classical transactional stuff), HR applications and any sort of financial stuff such as AR / AP / Payroll.

There's zillions more applications that SAP can be used for and it's not always "Industrial".

In any case my point was to say if you DO use any type of SAP application then W8 Metro really isn't fit for purpose due to the ridiculous Full screen only (or the absurd half screen bit) way of running applications.

You really DO need a classical windows desktop interface to run SAP GUI. There's also NO way this side of the expected probable life of the universe that SAP will have anything to do with Microsoft's "Store".

Some single purpose stuff like "Shop Floor papers" in a manufacturing process could be done on a tablet -- but remember as an ERP system very few processes can be isolated like that. SAP integrates production , procurement, planning etc etc so it's only in rare cases could you use a tablet.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Mystere]

In any case my point was to say if you DO use any type of SAP application then W8 Metro really isn't fit for purpose due to the ridiculous Full screen only (or the absurd half screen bit) way of running applications.

And yet the CEO of SAP was just on CNN talking about all their new Tablet and Phone based apps. Perhaps you should let their CEO know that this is impossible.