Can the new Windows 8.1 bring back users?

First, because I can't resist, let me just say "I told you so!"

I'd said all along that Windows 8's Metro interface was downright awful for desktop users. I was right. Windows 8 saw PC sales plummet to their worst level in a generation. Under new leadership, Microsoft has finally bought a clue and is retrofitting Windows 8.x's Metro/Modern desktop with a much more keyboard- and mouse-friendly Windows, Icon, Menu, and Pointer (WIMP) interface.

I can only ask, "What took you so long Microsoft?" Popular programs, such as Stardock's Start8, showed that Windows power users craved their Start Menu. Besides, Windows 8.x's abysmal usage numbers were even worse than Microsoft's previous all-time operating system flop, Vista. It doesn't take the next coming of GE CEO genius Jack Welch to realize when a core product has failed.

The rest here:

 

[CountMike]

Most businesses (specially large ones) are pretty inert when it comes new OS. Some (probably most) are because of money involved, and probably just as many because of upper management being computer ignorant, completely computer illiterate or just don't see any profit coming from OS change.
I was involved with engineering, maintenance and as production manager in auto industry for long time and know how much of pushing I had to do to get new computers in. In one "startup" factory I had to fight to get a computer that I desperately needed for production, took me a year to get one and when they finally bought it, they gave it to accounting !!! Had to bring my own Timex Sinclair ZX81 and adopted it to to what I needed it do to make my job easier and even possible to do it efficiently. Only after they have seen how much faster were turn-arounds when switching production from one product number to another did they relent and bought me a proper PC. Upgrading to a newer one took even more fight with company owners "But you already have a computer", was standard answer. Only when I agreed to let them print labels for boxes on it they let me by a newer one. Of course I used older one for that and they were none the wiser about it because both of them were in my office. One "perk" I got from that is that I "had" to teach nice secretaries to work on computers.
For years I took a lot of work (ACAD, making forms and documentation) home because I had better computer at home and it was much easier for me to work there. One of my bosses used to comment "Playing with your computer again, eh ?" every time he seen me working on it in my office. Once I modified game "Doom" to chase boss around the factory, installed it into his computer and one day when I came into the boardroom, they were all playing it, even the corporation president when he came from the main office in Detroit. Had to give him a copy to take it home. Few years later, on an auto industry show, I was introduced ti Lee Iacoca (Chrysler president at that time) and he recognized me by that and not by my real work that involved introducing part number standardization for disk brake parts.

 

[dencal]

"Popular programs, such as Stardock's Start8, showed that Windows power users craved their Start Menu."

Windows power users craved? More like, helpless Windows users craved.

Real power users say, "Start Menu? We don't need no stinkin' Start menu!"

Agree totally 100%.....Self acclaimed so called power users indeed!

 

[CountMike]

"Popular programs, such as Stardock's Start8, showed that Windows power users craved their Start Menu."

Windows power users craved? More like, helpless Windows users craved.

Real power users say, "Start Menu? We don't need no stinkin' Start menu!"

Agree totally 100%.....Self acclaimed so called power users indeed!

Nowadays, "power user" is anybody that knows how to turn computer on. Never used Start menu in the past, after few dozen programs are installed it's practically un-usable. Small letters, sub sub menus and remembering what goes where is just too much. Ad to that some programs that go by name of developer and not by it's program name, just ad to all the mix-up. A lot of people that are not too computer savvy just ask me to put an icon of the desktop for particular program or even make it autostart so they can find it. Some are even surprised that start menu exists at all let alone how to find their programs there.
Real "power user" will know all the intricacies of the OS. Even after many, many years of computer use and work on and with them, I can't call myself some "super duper power user", mostly because of no need to go to the minute depths some pros have to.

 

[jimbo45]

"Popular programs, such as Stardock's Start8, showed that Windows power users craved their Start Menu."

Windows power users craved? More like, helpless Windows users craved.

Real power users say, "Start Menu? We don't need no stinkin' Start menu!"

Agree totally 100%.....Self acclaimed so called power users indeed!

Hi there.

Depends whether you run just a few applications or run a few programs at a deep level in a cascaded nest.

If you use a program that's essentially a GUI then what's wrong with using a GUI -- If you find you are using a power shell or the command line a lot then perhaps you should use a COMMAND LINE based system and only connect to a gui based system via RDP / VNC when you need to.

If you need to find some rarely used feature of a large program then getting it from a cascading menu is far far better than the stupid Tile based system.

For commonly used programs such as say Outlook, IE, EXCEL or whatever you can always pin these to the quick start or the desktop so a menu isn't actually NEEDED for these cases.

But who cares on what is only NEEDED. If the consumer is USED to having a Menu and still WANTS ONE - then if it can be supplied easily (and there are enough 3rd party products to show that it CAN be done easily) then it makes ZERO business sense NOT to give the customer the choice)

If a well liked feature - whatever the technical merits or otherwise is wanted - then business wise it is UTTERLY STUPID to remove it. Allow users to choose - and maybe by the time say W9 appears enough users *MIGHT* come round to the idea of not minding if there is a menu or not.

BTW the windows menu system wasn't that great -- especially the W7 one where it occupied a huge area of the screen and wasn't very configurable. Custom toolbars are the way to go in this case.

Linux menus are configurable -- you can add / remove what you like so the case of a menu becoming "Unuseable" is unlikely to arise.


Cheers
jimbo

 

[CountMike]

"Popular programs, such as Stardock's Start8, showed that Windows power users craved their Start Menu."

Windows power users craved? More like, helpless Windows users craved.

Real power users say, "Start Menu? We don't need no stinkin' Start menu!"

Agree totally 100%.....Self acclaimed so called power users indeed!

Hi there.

Depends whether you run just a few applications or run a few programs at a deep level in a cascaded nest.

If you use a program that's essentially a GUI then what's wrong with using a GUI -- If you find you are using a power shell or the command line a lot then perhaps you should use a COMMAND LINE based system and only connect to a gui based system via RDP / VNC when you need to.

If you need to find some rarely used feature of a large program then getting it from a cascading menu is far far better than the stupid Tile based system.

For commonly used programs such as say Outlook, IE, EXCEL or whatever you can always pin these to the quick start or the desktop so a menu isn't actually NEEDED for these cases.

But who cares on what is only NEEDED. If the consumer is USED to having a Menu and still WANTS ONE - then if it can be supplied easily (and there are enough 3rd party products to show that it CAN be done easily) then it makes ZERO business sense NOT to give the customer the choice)

If a well liked feature - whatever the technical merits or otherwise is wanted - then business wise it is UTTERLY STUPID to remove it. Allow users to choose - and maybe by the time say W9 appears enough users *MIGHT* come round to the idea of not minding if there is a menu or not.

Cheers
jimbo

Yes, it all comes down to choice and not to "Do it my way or highway".

 

[dencal]

Countmike and Jimbo.
You are both missing the point....A "Windows Power User" suggests an extremely knowledgeable computer operator, using that application.....As stated in the original post by Strollin "Windows power users craved their start menu", which he debunked and I am in agreement with, and points to an incompetent or inexperienced operator.

 

[Rickkins]

Countmike and Jimbo.
You are both missing the point....A "Windows Power User" suggests an extremely knowledgeable computer operator, using that application.....As stated in the original post by Strollin "Windows power users craved their start menu", which he debunked and I am in agreement with, and points to an incompetent or inexperienced operator.

Oh puh-lease. Get over yourself.

 

[Edwin]

A Power User is a 'PC Control Freak'!!!

 

[lehnerus2000]

Linux Mint 17

However after trying various Linux distros (Used for a server for years) I've found Linux Mate (latest release 16 petra with KDE desktop) fulfils about 95% of my needs and I now only run windows as VM's on a laptop.

Linux Mint 17 should be out in a few weeks.
I believe it will be a Long Term Support version.

 

[dencal]

Countmike and Jimbo.
You are both missing the point....A "Windows Power User" suggests an extremely knowledgeable computer operator, using that application.....As stated in the original post by Strollin "Windows power users craved their start menu", which he debunked and I am in agreement with, and points to an incompetent or inexperienced operator.

Oh puh-lease. Get over yourself.

My original backing for the above quote was a generalisation and not against an individual.
According to your posts you are a "power user" and have taken offence...none was meant, but I stand by my original assertion.
I am not too impressed with your corrupted version of English.

 

[JohnBurns]

I wonder if the title of this thread should be: "Can new Window 8.1 DRIVE AWAY even more users"?

 

[whs]

Jimbo, you need a decent snipping tool. Get Jing and program it to F9 for triggering. Then you can also capture context stuff and virtual systems from the host. See example. And if you want to use a native Mint snipping tool, get Shutter. That is pretty neat too.

Btw, yesterday I put Mate on a 60GB SSD that I had lying around. Will try to get VMware Player on it.

 

[mdmd]

@ Greg

Hello there. Your post vanished!

Agree with everything you said. How about that!

The sparkle is purely self absorbed love for full screen metro stuff.
And a new menuing system other than that used since Windows 95.
7 has the numbers. No doubt about that.

It's the matter of popularity. Apple types rave in favor of Mac stuff.
Linux fans are undeterred from support of the UNIX kernel and it's GUI.
Tablets are the new portable PCs and BYODs.
8 is a radical departure from the past.

But it's more than explorer.exe. Code trends are not static. Productive work NOW is exclusively traditional but defining the current paradigm of the 7 desktop as perfected is just fluff. Dynamic Link Libraries when compiled to explorer and the registry has created a security nightmare that requires constant patching to maintain.

Both Apple and Linux have UNIX kernels and are less attractive to miscreants but no computer OS is totally secure.

I never got why Surface didn't get designed with ethernet and a better price. A thousand dollars for a tablet is ridiculous. One has to buy accessories?

So to speak, out in the real world, 8 and 9 will evolve.
7 will become the new XP.

So now we're looking at 8, 9 or 10 to 2030.
I think CPU design will play a role in future OS trends.

 

[whs]

Greg, did you delete your post ??

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Greg, did you delete your post ??

That's what I'm wondering. I copied and pasted it to Word for to answer. Wondering what to do now.....

 

[whs]

HG, Let's wait what Greg has to say. Maybe he wants you to put it back up or maybe he has deleted it himself.

Lately posts seem to vanish without anybody telling you anything. I had asked John what is happening here, but he never answered. Pretty uncivilized way to treat members.

Maybe this post will vanish too. But I have copied it.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Yes, I'll wait to be respectful. I can answer to his first post if need be.

 

[gregrocker]

Yeah I tend to get into rants about Ate because I take it personally that so little self-respect would be given to the real accomplishment of Windows 7, and can begin sounding like a fanboy even though I really do think it is one of the greatest achievements in tech and is what got me involved. So I wanted to take more time to write this.

I mainly wanted to make the point that Seven being the best OS ever is not a matter of opinion since it is by far the best selling OS ever - even with sales being artifically suppressed now - and wildly popular with consumers who have almost no complaints.

By comparison most consumers will never even hear the name Linux and only a tiny fraction use an iOS.

In spite of rumors of its demise, the desktop is where the productive work which drives the world economy is done and is perfected in Windows Seven. However by depriving consumers of the best OS on new desktops, a real attempt has been made to kill it off - intended or not.

We know that this was done in service to a new business plan that monetizes apps and eventually the OS by subscription, which required an attempt to throw away the desktop and adapt an Ipad social media buttons interface. Now that this is seen by all to be a failure, how about doubling down now instead on what already we know is a smashing success?

Just giving a fair and even choice will right the ship and point the way for Windows 9.

 

[mdmd]

Just for conversation, do you believe the version of explorer in 7 is better than the explorer in 8?

And btw, are apps (desktop or otherwise) supposed to be free?
A fair choice of Operating Systems? Why would OEM's install an OS from 2009 on new tech?

Does it all boil down to the metro UI? 8.1.1 will drive some to other systems.
7 is really not that big of a leap in tech advancement. It still uses NT.

 

[gregrocker]

With an overdue SP2 it wouldn't really be a 2009 OS, and it doesn't show any signs of age anyway.

I tried to interest others in 8 Explorer improvements and not one liked them. I think it pleases techies only. I thought the graphs were impressive, but it isn't nearly enough to capture consumers.

Metro makes Rube Goldberg seem simple.