Another Poll about the Desktop Start Menu

[znod]

But, I thought it would be better to have a logical flow that makes it easy to figure out how to respond. I am concerned that some may not have voted out of lack of understanding. I will add something up front to help out on this point. Best to you.

You shouldn't have to explain or guide anyone in answering your poll, the questions should do that for you. You have two very specific questions followed by a general "catch all" question that is open to interpretation. If I were to answer yes to either the first or second question I wouldn't have to explain my answer. If I answer yes to the third question you don't know why. I could be answering because I like the Start Screen over the Start Menu, or I could be answering because whether it had a Start Menu or not I still hate Windows 8. Someone visiting the site and looking at the poll results without reading the thread is going to think it is a poll of people who hate the Start Screen. In other words it creates a bias in the results. I didn't answer the poll because my explanation for choosing the third question would not be captured correctly in the poll results, unlike the first two questions.

Serious empirical research concerning, for example preferences, in a polling or questionnaire situation, generally does require upfront explanation. Subjects typically are expected to read the explanation prior to responding. Regardless, responding to my poll is absolutely straight forward. If the first or second response does not fit you, then the third obviously does. There is really no reason to read my explanation to reply correctly to the poll. But, I included the explanation for obvious reasons. Regardless, you automatically know exactly why the third response if correct if you choose it--you are not having either of the experiences noted in the first two responses. Given your comments, I think you are an obvious third-response person. Why not vote? If you think there is bias (i.e., some not voting for whatever reason), then you are helping to create it. Please note there probably are some who would choose one of the first two responses, but elected not to vote for some reason. Unfortunately, we cannot control for the issue of those not responding that could have obviously done so given our forum tools. In this regard, we also can't choose our sample, ensure that explanations are read and understood, or follow up in regard to non-respondents. In sum, our polls are generalizable to larger populations only accidentally. And, we can't tell what the populations are for with statistical accuracy. So, all of our polls are biased in the sense that their results can be interpreted as applying only to those that responded.

The poll results do not imply that a lot of people hate the start screen. In the context you are getting at, the poll simply implies that some are not having either the experiences noted in the first two possible responses. That doesn't come close to implying that they hate the start screen. For example, I certainly don't. I just hardly ever find a reason to use it. My main start-menu replacement is a tool bar on the desktop taskbar containing app and folder shortcuts--which functions rather like a third-party start-menu replacement.

 

[kmint]

I purchased Start8 and I don't even use it anymore. It's faster for me the Metro Start Menu one although it requires some work to organize my icons. But it's just faster and more comfortable once organized, it doesn't need any accuracy on clicking.

What I definetely miss is Aero Glass. I can't get used to these flat windows and colors. I really liked the Aero Glass and squared windows in the W8 Previews, and it also didn't have as much shadow as in W7, that was really cool visually for me. I hope someone makes some hack one day to bring it back.

I like glass, etc., too. As I recall, there is a 3rd-party app that gives glass, etc., back. Can't remember its name. I think I remember some questioning its quality in doing what it is supposed to do (could be wrong).

Edit: Searched on "aero glass in windows 8." Found several possibilities. Here is one interesting one--no third party app required for the first possibility. Then, there is discussion of some third-party stuff that doesn't seem quite ready for prime time.

I tried that long ago and it doesn't work. It's a disaster. There is nothing yet bringing Aero Glass back.

I am now writing from my older laptop, where I had installed W8 Consumer Preview and Oh My God it is so much beautiful to me. It makes such a difference. I can't believe what these guys have done. Why don't they just let people choose?? I miss it so much now that I see it again. Specifically, the Aero Glass in Consumer PReview was the most beautiful they made, with squared windows, cool closing buttons, cool not-flat scroll bars, little shadow under windows but enough to give 3D impression...

Hate u Microsoft. Give me my Aero Glass back.

And I have to install XP on this old laptop now, as the Preview has expired and shows warnings that will shut down in one hour.

 

[znod]

I tried that long ago and it doesn't work. It's a disaster. There is nothing yet bringing Aero Glass back.

I am now writing from my older laptop, where I had installed W8 Consumer Preview and Oh My God it is so much beautiful to me. It makes such a difference. I can't believe what these guys have done. Why don't they just let people choose?? I miss it so much now that I see it again. Specifically, the Aero Glass in Consumer PReview was the most beautiful they made, with squared windows, cool closing buttons, cool not-flat scroll bars, little shadow under windows but enough to give 3D impression...

Hate u Microsoft. Give me my Aero Glass back.

And I have to install XP on this old laptop now, as the Preview has expired and shows warnings that will shut down in one hour.

I always like getting on my Win7 desktop. Unfortunately, I am not finding reason to use it much currently.

 

[headonastick]

After a bit of searching I found this link not Aero Glass but Aero Lite, dunno if that is of any help ?
An Easter Egg brings Aero Lite theme back in Windows 8 RTM

 

[Der Snoober]

Since I'm using Windows 8 I've never missed the Start Menu for a second. The funny fact is that now, when I'm a the office, I'm annoyed by the existance of a Start Menu there (Windows XP).

 

[pcRat]

But, I thought it would be better to have a logical flow that makes it easy to figure out how to respond. I am concerned that some may not have voted out of lack of understanding. I will add something up front to help out on this point. Best to you.

You shouldn't have to explain or guide anyone in answering your poll, the questions should do that for you. You have two very specific questions followed by a general "catch all" question that is open to interpretation. If I were to answer yes to either the first or second question I wouldn't have to explain my answer. If I answer yes to the third question you don't know why. I could be answering because I like the Start Screen over the Start Menu, or I could be answering because whether it had a Start Menu or not I still hate Windows 8. Someone visiting the site and looking at the poll results without reading the thread is going to think it is a poll of people who hate the Start Screen. In other words it creates a bias in the results. I didn't answer the poll because my explanation for choosing the third question would not be captured correctly in the poll results, unlike the first two questions.

Serious empirical research concerning, for example preferences, in a polling or questionnaire situation, generally does require upfront explanation. Subjects typically are expected to read the explanation prior to responding. Regardless, responding to my poll is absolutely straight forward. If the first or second response does not fit you, then the third obviously does. There is really no reason to read my explanation to reply correctly to the poll. But, I included the explanation for obvious reasons. Regardless, you automatically know exactly why the third response if correct if you choose it--you are not having either of the experiences noted in the first two responses. Given your comments, I think you are an obvious third-response person. Why not vote? If you think there is bias (i.e., some not voting for whatever reason), then you are helping to create it. Please note there probably are some who would choose one of the first two responses, but elected not to vote for some reason. Unfortunately, we cannot control for the issue of those not responding that could have obviously done so given our forum tools. In this regard, we also can't choose our sample, ensure that explanations are read and understood, or follow up in regard to non-respondents. In sum, our polls are generalizable to larger populations only accidentally. And, we can't tell what the populations are for with statistical accuracy. So, all of our polls are biased in the sense that their results can be interpreted as applying only to those that responded.

The poll results do not imply that a lot of people hate the start screen. In the context you are getting at, the poll simply implies that some are not having either the experiences noted in the first two possible responses. That doesn't come close to implying that they hate the start screen. For example, I certainly don't. I just hardly ever find a reason to use it. My main start-menu replacement is a tool bar on the desktop taskbar containing app and folder shortcuts--which functions rather like a third-party start-menu replacement.

My main start-menu replacement is a tool bar on the desktop taskbar containing app and folder shortcuts--which functions rather like a third-party start-menu replacement.

I did not know you are technically calling icons & toolbars a start menu replacement.
Those have been windows helper objects since ...
I thought you were talking about 3rd party start menus like start8, classic shell etc only.

Like you, I use toolbars and taskbar icons keeping desktop icons hidden for 2 reasons
1- don't like minimizing windows to view & click icons
2- don't like icons covering my desktop background

 

[pcRat]

Many members who use 3rd party start menus seem to be doing so for speed & productivity.
Lets say we want to open Wordpad.
Click mouse on start button, click All programs, click on Accessories, click on Wordpad

Does anyone really believe that is faster than while keeping hand on mouse
Press Window key with other hand, press W key, press the enter key or click mouse on Wordpad tile.

I've been saving time since vista using the widow key & typing letter(s) of program or file

If I were using Wordpad that much, I'd pin it to the start menu, the task bar, or have an icon on my desktop for it. A prime candidate to pin to a Windows 8 Start screen if I were using the Metro UI for other reasons.

There are functions that the desktop start menu gives you quickly that I haven't found in Windows 8, such as Recent Items. Two clicks, and you have a list of most recent opened documents. I find this quite handy. I don't know if anyone's gone through the start menu to ferret out each piece of functionality and compare each with how it's done in Windows 8. Some things are just as quick in either case, and some aren't.

I don't recall where I seen this Recent Items tip but it works quite well
Pinned to Start Menu & in my desktop toolbar

Able to clear with right click
(I hide desktop icons and use toolbars because it slows me down clicking somewhere or minimizing windows to see icons
Well, there doesn't appear to be a built-in, already exposed way to find them. On the other hand, this workaround seems to provide some relief:
From the desktop, create a new shortcut
For the "Browse to" entry, type C:\Users\[YourName]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Recent replacing your name or account where shown
Right click the shortcut and Pin to Start Menu, causing a new metro tile to appear
I customized the view of the resulting browser to show Medium Icons, and collapsed all but the Today entries. The upside of this approach is it will remember literally hundreds of recent items going back months.

 

[znod]

You shouldn't have to explain or guide anyone in answering your poll, the questions should do that for you. You have two very specific questions followed by a general "catch all" question that is open to interpretation. If I were to answer yes to either the first or second question I wouldn't have to explain my answer. If I answer yes to the third question you don't know why. I could be answering because I like the Start Screen over the Start Menu, or I could be answering because whether it had a Start Menu or not I still hate Windows 8. Someone visiting the site and looking at the poll results without reading the thread is going to think it is a poll of people who hate the Start Screen. In other words it creates a bias in the results. I didn't answer the poll because my explanation for choosing the third question would not be captured correctly in the poll results, unlike the first two questions.

Serious empirical research concerning, for example preferences, in a polling or questionnaire situation, generally does require upfront explanation. Subjects typically are expected to read the explanation prior to responding. Regardless, responding to my poll is absolutely straight forward. If the first or second response does not fit you, then the third obviously does. There is really no reason to read my explanation to reply correctly to the poll. But, I included the explanation for obvious reasons. Regardless, you automatically know exactly why the third response if correct if you choose it--you are not having either of the experiences noted in the first two responses. Given your comments, I think you are an obvious third-response person. Why not vote? If you think there is bias (i.e., some not voting for whatever reason), then you are helping to create it. Please note there probably are some who would choose one of the first two responses, but elected not to vote for some reason. Unfortunately, we cannot control for the issue of those not responding that could have obviously done so given our forum tools. In this regard, we also can't choose our sample, ensure that explanations are read and understood, or follow up in regard to non-respondents. In sum, our polls are generalizable to larger populations only accidentally. And, we can't tell what the populations are for with statistical accuracy. So, all of our polls are biased in the sense that their results can be interpreted as applying only to those that responded.

The poll results do not imply that a lot of people hate the start screen. In the context you are getting at, the poll simply implies that some are not having either the experiences noted in the first two possible responses. That doesn't come close to implying that they hate the start screen. For example, I certainly don't. I just hardly ever find a reason to use it. My main start-menu replacement is a tool bar on the desktop taskbar containing app and folder shortcuts--which functions rather like a third-party start-menu replacement.

My main start-menu replacement is a tool bar on the desktop taskbar containing app and folder shortcuts--which functions rather like a third-party start-menu replacement.

I did not know you are technically calling icons & toolbars a start menu replacement.
Those have been windows helper objects since ...
I thought you were talking about 3rd party start menus like start8, classic shell etc only.

Like you, I use toolbars and taskbar icons keeping desktop icons hidden for 2 reasons
1- don't like minimizing windows to view & click icons
2- don't like icons covering my desktop background

Most consider start menu replacements to be 3rd party apps. So, that's really what this thread is about. But, I've seen an article or so include toolbar on taskbar to be a replacement. That's what I think of as my start menu replacement.

Here's one article.

Here is Shawn's contribution.

Here's another.

I am sure there are more out there.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Interesting poll, znod, but so as to make it clearer I think the last choice should be "I'm fine with the Start Screen" or "8 is fine the way it is". Not that I think you did it intentionally, but I think it is prejudice in that #1 Members that use 3rd party menu will be more attracted to the thread to vote. (this is my 2nd visit here after thinking on it awhile). #2. It's confusing as to the context of your OP.

I voted the third because I didn't use the Start Menu all that much in Vista or 7. I also think I picked up 8 faster than most, not because I'm any smarter or proficient, but because I use a lot of shortcut keys. I rarely touch the mouse unless I'm zeroing in on something where it would be faster with the mouse. The WinKey has been my friend since Vista using 3D flip. (Or Alt/Tab) I think I navigate 8 faster than I did 7. It wasn't true at first, but with time I think I am, mostly due to the Start Screen.

e.g. I even copy and paste whole words or sentences with the Shift/arrow keys -> Ctrl/C or V. If I'm copying a paragraph, then I'll use the mouse, for it's faster. I'll use keys to scroll in any direction of web pages, Start Screen, docs, Excel sheets, etc.

With that, I'll post with Alt/S.

Thank you for your comments. You are exactly one of the types of individuals that I hoped would/expected to choose the third option. I think that the poll is easy to reply to without thinking. That is, if neither the first choice nor the second choice applies (which should be clear), then your forced choice is the third one--which I think obviously implies that you are not having either of the experiences noted in the first two responses. I explained up front in more detail when the third choice would apply, and anyone can change their vote or choose to vote at any time. The dichotomy first (choice/second choice) versus third choice gets at exactly what I was trying to find out--the percents of those having the two "positive" experiences I elaborate on in post #1 versus the percent of those not having either of those experiences. I suppose that putting the first response first might attract some to the poll, but something has to go first. I guess I could have drawn the order out of a hat. But, I thought it would be better to have a logical flow that makes it easy to figure out how to respond. I am slightly concerned that some may not have responded that could have. I will add something up front to help out on this point. It will apply to everyone that might not have responded for some reason, but could have. Best to you.

I have to be thoroughly honest here. LOL! At first, while glancing through new posts, your poll/thread title caught my eye. I glanced in, read the poll answers while ignoring your OP, and thought "Oh! Another one of those threads where members change 8 to what it is not! I'll have none of it!" and Alt/Left arrowed back to new posts. It ate at me for awhile that I was being rather prejudice and that I should answer otherwise those "other members" will hijack the poll, so I returned and raced through your OP. I knew what I would vote the first time I peaked in.

You did make it perfectly clear in your OP explanation. My apology that I didn't thoroughly read it through. Comprehensively anyway.

I'm rather a purist. I try to use things as they are designed. I use a lot of different hand and power tools in what I do. Each has their own designated use. I find the Start Screen with All Apps versus the Start Menu liken to a power saw versus a hand saw. Each will cut wood, but the power saw is so much easier. I guess some people don't see it that way and I really don't have to figure it out, nor do I have to understand it. To each their own. I continue to be surprised at the poll results, though.

 

[SIW2]

Not sure why people keep talking about launching programs.

That's ok for those with simple needs.

Vastly better to have that and other common functions in one easily accessible, neat place, together with the all important recent items flyout and drives flyout. Not something that is just a program launcher which covers the entire screen. Worse than useless to me. It is a nuisance.

 

[znod]

Interesting poll, znod, but so as to make it clearer I think the last choice should be "I'm fine with the Start Screen" or "8 is fine the way it is". Not that I think you did it intentionally, but I think it is prejudice in that #1 Members that use 3rd party menu will be more attracted to the thread to vote. (this is my 2nd visit here after thinking on it awhile). #2. It's confusing as to the context of your OP.

I voted the third because I didn't use the Start Menu all that much in Vista or 7. I also think I picked up 8 faster than most, not because I'm any smarter or proficient, but because I use a lot of shortcut keys. I rarely touch the mouse unless I'm zeroing in on something where it would be faster with the mouse. The WinKey has been my friend since Vista using 3D flip. (Or Alt/Tab) I think I navigate 8 faster than I did 7. It wasn't true at first, but with time I think I am, mostly due to the Start Screen.

e.g. I even copy and paste whole words or sentences with the Shift/arrow keys -> Ctrl/C or V. If I'm copying a paragraph, then I'll use the mouse, for it's faster. I'll use keys to scroll in any direction of web pages, Start Screen, docs, Excel sheets, etc.

With that, I'll post with Alt/S.

Thank you for your comments. You are exactly one of the types of individuals that I hoped would/expected to choose the third option. I think that the poll is easy to reply to without thinking. That is, if neither the first choice nor the second choice applies (which should be clear), then your forced choice is the third one--which I think obviously implies that you are not having either of the experiences noted in the first two responses. I explained up front in more detail when the third choice would apply, and anyone can change their vote or choose to vote at any time. The dichotomy first (choice/second choice) versus third choice gets at exactly what I was trying to find out--the percents of those having the two "positive" experiences I elaborate on in post #1 versus the percent of those not having either of those experiences. I suppose that putting the first response first might attract some to the poll, but something has to go first. I guess I could have drawn the order out of a hat. But, I thought it would be better to have a logical flow that makes it easy to figure out how to respond. I am slightly concerned that some may not have responded that could have. I will add something up front to help out on this point. It will apply to everyone that might not have responded for some reason, but could have. Best to you.

I have to be thoroughly honest here. LOL! At first, while glancing through new posts, your poll/thread title caught my eye. I glanced in, read the poll answers while ignoring your OP, and thought "Oh! Another one of those threads where members change 8 to what it is not! I'll have none of it!" and Alt/Left arrowed back to new posts. It ate at me for awhile that I was being rather prejudice and that I should answer otherwise those "other members" will hijack the poll, so I returned and raced through your OP. I knew what I would vote the first time I peaked in.

You did make it perfectly clear in your OP explanation. My apology that I didn't thoroughly read it through. Comprehensively anyway.

I'm rather a purist. I try to use things as they are designed. I use a lot of different hand and power tools in what I do. Each has their own designated use. I find the Start Screen with All Apps versus the Start Menu liken to a power saw versus a hand saw. Each will cut wood, but the power saw is so much easier. I guess some people don't see it that way and I really don't have to figure it out, nor do I have to understand it. To each their own. I continue to be surprised at the poll results, though.

No problem. Thank you for your interest and your observations. Glad you voted. I think some believe that I have a vested interest in the outcome of the poll. Well, I do! I want it to have done a decent job of gathering quantitive info on a topic that probably is of significance to many of us. I am very satisfied with the job the poll is doing in gathering the desired info.

I am not extraordinarily surprised at the poll's outcomes through this point. There are strong feelings "both" ways. But, until now, I don't think we had much of a handle on the relative %'s.

 

[Wynona]

This poll is interesting to me, but it doesn't substantively or clearly get at what I'd most like to know in relation to having a desktop start menu and our proclivities to accept Windows 8 in a post-purchase, Windows 8 in-use environment. In conducting this poll, I am trying to get at the proportion of the Windows 8 Forums users experiencing that having a good desktop start-menu replacement enhances their acceptance of Windows 8. This approach is intended to distinguish primarily between the responses of two disparate groups: (1) those experiencing that having a good desktop start-menu replacement enhances their acceptance of Windows 8 greatly or to a lesser extent and (2) those not having such an experience--not having the experience of a good desktop start-menu replacement enhancing their acceptance of Windows 8 greatly or to a lesser extent. Individuals might not have such an experience because they don't use what they consider to be a good start menu replacement (e.g., no start menu replacement) in Windows 8 or the good replacement they use in Windows 8 does not enhance their acceptance of Windows 8.

Edit: To be clear, my poll contains a response that is appropriate for each individual using Windows 8 (please read my elaboration above). Also, you can change you vote if you feel the need.

Nah, you didn't include "a from the factory" start menu, which I would have clicked. Therefore, I clicked Neither.

As I said in another post: None of the start menu replacements are completely satisfactory. I think if Microsoft had given us a choice to use Windows 8 as a mobile OS (like it is now) or as a desktop OS with a Windows 7 type start menu (they missed the boat on this one), we would have been more inclined to accept it.

 

[znod]

Nah, you didn't include "a from the factory" start menu, which I would have clicked. Therefore, I clicked Neither.

Yep, I was dealing with what is not what might have been.

 

[fourthofjuly]

Neither.
IMO, most people probably acquired Win 8 out of curiosity. Acceptance vary on technical skills level before having the Win 8 experience. If you are a tech savvy, you will probably accept it for what it is. But if you are just a regular user who relies on "x" button to close a program, etc., it's a different story.

 

[Wynona]

It is not difficult to learn.

Speak for yourself, John! I almost never found out how to shut the dang thing down! And that's just for starters.

It is not the same.

It is definitely not the same!

It is not as good.

Nope, it ain't, by a far stretch. Too many keystrokes and mousy clicks!

It is not to benefit the desktop user. It is to benefit MS.

It could have benefited the desktop user. All MS had to do was to give us a choice on how to use it, i.e. with a Win 7 type start menu or with the current mobile OS start (touchy-feely) screen. I think everyone could have been happy . . .

It is not hard to understand.

Ohhhh, yes it are! Although I can navigate in Win 8, there was a huge learning curve and I'm no newbie to operating systems.