Windows 8 thoughts & opinions: incomplete?

[jaebberwock]

I think Microsoft is all in. They are in too deep to back out now. They need to shore up decreasing revenues from Windows licenses with something else. Leveraging the OS the world runs on to do this probably irresistible. Why settle for a one time license fee rather than a continuing stream? Why let Amazon and Apple make money off the back of their OS? Why shouldn’t they get a piece of the pie? A continual revenue stream is more valuable than erratic ones.

I can’t see a compelling need to upgrade my computer. An old 2.0 Ghz Core 2 Duo does everything I need it to. If you aren’t a PC gamer or involved with processing media or development, the processor stopped being a bottleneck a long time ago. The Samsung 830 SSD I put in this machine gave it a whole new lease on life. How often do you see your CPU pegged at 100%? Random IOs is what the bottleneck is and my machine blazes, even though it only supports SATA1. My work computer is a 2.53 Ghz i5 and there is no discernible difference in day to day use. If anything, my SSD makes things faster.

What can Office 2013 do that Office 2007 can’t that is of any consequence? I can’t say Office 2003 because the auto-formula completion in Office 2007 made my life so much easier, probably the single most significant upgrade in my life. The market is mature. It is inevitable. Why upgrade when things do what you need them to? It is not a matter of need, just want.

All this leads to an increased refresh cycle and decreased revenue streams. It is a mature market, which is just the way things go. Saturation is saturation. Microsoft is a blue chip company. They have a rock solid market cap. They have a solid track record. There is only so much room for growth. They are trying to mitigate by attacking it from a few different angles.

The 1[SUP]st[/SUP], which has been so clumsily executed is Bing. Pushing a Bing toolbar update, paying people to use their search, exclusive search agreements that locked my Blackberry into having Bing as the only available search engine for the built in browser, thwarting the SGS1 (Verizon Fascinate) I was so looking forward to upgrading to by Bingifying it. They are making some headway though and their video search is quite useful in the adult video department (from what I hear because I have never in my 3 decades of life visited a tube site).

Xbox Live integration with the OS - Xbox Live is front and center with Xbox music and video. It has been profitable in the console area and there will be many more eyes and wallets available by including it in W8.

Windows Store- MS will serve as the gatekeeper, pretty much in the same role as Apple does with iTunes. If the model catches on and is successful, it will probably result in significant increases in revenue through their share of app costs and advertisement revenue.

Subscription model – MS is pushing hard towards making Office subscription based. The pricing model clearly favors subscription; I think $99 for 5 home users for 1 year vs. $150 for a single Office home installation. This gets around the whole no compelling reason to upgrade problem. I wouldn’t be surprised if Windows OS moves towards a similar platform. A steady predictable revenue stream is more valuable than a volatile one.

All this is pretty clear to anyone with even a modicum of business sense. I don’t blame them for taking the above approaches, they have a fiscal duty to their shareholders to act in the best interests of the company.

While I don’t blame them, it doesn’t mean that I have to enjoy essentially be forced into going along with it with no viable alternatives. There won’t always be drivers for Windows 7, eventually I will need to buy new hardware and if Microsoft stays the course, I will have to eventually get on board.

I also don’t like being an OS behind, it bugs me. I like to work on the latest OS. I'd love to still be on Windows 8 if it fit my needs.

I have no doubt Microsoft knows exactly how many Windows 8 licenses were activated and how many were reverted back to Windows 7.

Maybe if they see more people like me popping up in their metric they will reconsider. Maybe W8 will catch on and I'm an old dinosaur set in my ways. If the latter, I’ll board the Microsoft train again a few stops later because they pretty much have me by the balls.

 

[BillWindows]

Yes. Ducks fly with ducks and they quack a lot.

Yes again! You're on a roll, Ray! That's why MS went back to the drawing boards after 7 to create 8 because the market is demanding it. If you ever bought a touch device, you participated and added to the "touch device" market. Again, 8 is perfectly fine the way MS created it and intended it to be. And yet again, perhaps a 9 will suit your desires.

I thought that you at least wouldn't resort to insults. Nerves are clearly being touched.

But which market? I bought a tablet that was touch enabled, but touch wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me. I bought the tablet for functionality that the tablet form-factor provided and the fact that it was a full blown PC able to mirror my desktop. That's also why it has a wireless mouse and USB keyboard case. I've used laptops/notebooks for years, but I much prefer the form-factor of the tablet and the current setup is excellent.

While some may think Windows 8 is perfectly fine, it simply isn't for many users. If you know what Windows 9 will bring, and when, please enlighten the great unwashed.

Let me get this right, you bought a tablet, but you don't like touch. Then you turn it back into a Notebook, or worse than a notebook by adding a mouse and keyboard, but you like the tablet form factor.

you've lost me Ray

 

[rdwray]

I am going to make one last comment which may solve a lot of issues with Win8 - DO NOT UPGRADE, FORMAT AND INSTALL NEW. I installed over Preview and almost everything was corrupt. Did a Reset and had major security problems. Did a Refresh and things have smoothed out. I will probably go back and delete the partition and to a complete install.

I still do not think that a PC is the place for an Android OS....

 

[znod]

This poll and related discussion might be of interest to some of you:

Poll: Basic Preferences--Using Metro Interface vs Desktop

 

[rdwray]

This poll and related discussion might be of interest to some of you:

Poll: Basic Preferences--Using Metro Interface vs Desktop

I voted for the Desktop and it looks like we Desk-toppers are winning - everyone has their opinions, don't we....

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Yes. Ducks fly with ducks and they quack a lot.

Yes again! You're on a roll, Ray! That's why MS went back to the drawing boards after 7 to create 8 because the market is demanding it. If you ever bought a touch device, you participated and added to the "touch device" market. Again, 8 is perfectly fine the way MS created it and intended it to be. And yet again, perhaps a 9 will suit your desires.

I thought that you at least wouldn't resort to insults. Nerves are clearly being touched.

You forgot this -> <- in my quote. This smiley means tongue in cheek. It means that it should not be taken seriously. Obviously your nerves are clearly being touched if you took this as an insult. I'm just kidding around, Ray. I don't know how old you are, Ray, but I suggest to calm down. In light of what's happening in the rest of the world today, I think your problem with 8 is a cake walk.

BTW, I'm 61. I've seen a lot of good and bad in my lifetime. I've seen my fair share of doctors. Every time they take my blood pressure it's near perfect every time. They always comment on it. Not much upsets me, especially an OS.

But which market? I bought a tablet that was touch enabled, but touch wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me. I bought the tablet for functionality that the tablet form-factor provided and the fact that it was a full blown PC able to mirror my desktop. That's also why it has a wireless mouse and USB keyboard case. I've used laptops/notebooks for years, but I much prefer the form-factor of the tablet and the current setup is excellent.

Which market, Ray? The touch navigation market. The one that the general public is buying with phones, pads, lappies, convertibles, etc., and now PCs. The one we new was coming. Many of us happen to think MS did a great job adapting it to a PC. If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?

While some may think Windows 8 is perfectly fine, it simply isn't for many users.

Ok. It's "simply isn't for many users". Don't use it. It's that simple. I suggest to stick with Vista or 7. They'll be around for quite a long time. MS supplies a simple solution for those who dislike 8. If they were the monster company some make them out to be, they would end Vista and 7 support, but they don't and they won't for many years.

If you know what Windows 9 will bring, and when, please enlighten the great unwashed.

Who's getting insulting here, Ray? "The great unwashed"?! Do you mean those that are not baptized with wisdom of the path that we who enjoy 8 have? Some day we hope you will see the light. Come to the light......Come to the light.......

 

[symbiont]

If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?.

For being 61, your ignorance sure does show. To say that someone has no business using something because of one minor facet that people admit they only spend seconds in, and can be easily ignored is just plain assnine. There are other benefits to being on Windows 8 that you and the "general public" must not be aware of in performance, security and other areas - obviously you didn't research?. But it must be "cool" to tell your grandkids you're up with the times.

 

[azasadny]

Some very good points being made in this thread. Thanks, everyone!

 

[bluice32]

If posters like Mystere aren't currently on Microsoft's Payroll, they should be.

Their brilliant logic? "If you don't like Windows 8, you're wrong."

Well guess what, you can say "You're wrong" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that some of us are very underwhelmed by Windows 8. In fact some of us are quite worried about the direction Windows is taking as a whole. Some of us just don't like Windows 8. We don't have to provide statistics to back up our claims or quantify it for you or anyone else.

If Microsoft wants their OS to be well loved, then they need to give people what they want. If Microsoft just wants to increase the bottom line, then they will be accurately labeled as out of touch, corporatist, greedy Scrooges.

 

[Ray8]

[Let me get this right, you bought a tablet, but you don't like touch. Then you turn it back into a Notebook, or worse than a notebook by adding a mouse and keyboard, but you like the tablet form factor.

you've lost me Ray

My car is an automatic, but I drive it like a manual using the gears, only I don't need to use a clutch. Just because some device has a feature, it doesn't mean that you have to use that feature. I simply wanted the form-factor of a tablet ie I could use it with or without a keyboard when I wanted. I mainly use it with a keyboard and when I don't, Windows 7 works fine. Windows 8 certainly works no better as far as the touch keyboard goes and nor does touch when you want to do something with the desktop. It is hard to understand when others do things differently.

I forgot to mention, if what I have done is lost you, then why on earth has Microsoft been touting the Surface tablets with the magnetically attached keyboards? Not one keyboard mind you, but two completely different types. In your view, that must be utter madness.

 

[Ray8]

You forgot this -> <- in my quote. This smiley means tongue in cheek. It means that it should not be taken seriously. Obviously your nerves are clearly being touched if you took this as an insult. I'm just kidding around, Ray. I don't know how old you are, Ray, but I suggest to calm down. In light of what's happening in the rest of the world today, I think your problem with 8 is a cake walk.

BTW, I'm 61. I've seen a lot of good and bad in my lifetime. I've seen my fair share of doctors. Every time they take my blood pressure it's near perfect every time. They always comment on it. Not much upsets me, especially an OS.

Which market, Ray? The touch navigation market. The one that the general public is buying with phones, pads, lappies, convertibles, etc., and now PCs. The one we new was coming. Many of us happen to think MS did a great job adapting it to a PC. If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?

Ok. It's "simply isn't for many users". Don't use it. It's that simple. I suggest to stick with Vista or 7. They'll be around for quite a long time. MS supplies a simple solution for those who dislike 8. If they were the monster company some make them out to be, they would end Vista and 7 support, but they don't and they won't for many years.

Who's getting insulting here, Ray? "The great unwashed"?! Do you mean those that are not baptized with wisdom of the path that we who enjoy 8 have? Some day we hope you will see the light. Come to the light......Come to the light.......

The poking tongue is usually associated with a razz, a wink is usually associated with a light ribbing, at least on all the sites I've been on. The icons on this site are quite odd compared to ones I'm used to.

Why is it that because one feature of Windows 8 isn't a major factor for me in a tablet or PC, it's a reason not to buy one at all? It's like saying in a year's time, when all that you can get is Windows 8 on a tablet, that you'd better not buy a tablet, even if the form-factor is just what you need. Or that I can never buy a Windows PC again, because it comes with Windows 8. That's a bizarre way of thinking.

I'm clearly one of the great unwashed, because I haven't 'seen the light' according to the acolytes on this forum. The fact that I'm using Windows 8 clearly indicates that I'm able to cope with it, but why should I love it?

 

[steveb]

I do like the typography!

 

[Mystere]

If posters like Mystere aren't currently on Microsoft's Payroll, they should be.

Their brilliant logic? "If you don't like Windows 8, you're wrong."

Please. Stop putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

My position is what it has always been. If you don't like Windows 8, fine. You don't like it. Just stop making up BS arguments about why you don't like it. People have this need to justify their dislike for some reason, and nearly all of these excuses don't stand up to logical examination.

If you don't like Windows 8, that's a personal preference. Admit that it's your personal preference. There is no argument with that. But when you start making claims about the OS that simply aren't true, you're going to get argument.

 

[Coke Robot]

And since you have me on my soapbox, why did Microsoft insist that Windows 8 apps could only work with a minimum resolution of 1024 x 768, not 1024 x 600, which was the most common tablet resolution to date? We already know that the RT was deliberately hobbled and did in fact have the potential to run Windows programs.

So was the resolution requirement based on the same marketing decision, to force people to buy new tablets, or what? The start menu displayed perfectly on my tablet at the native 1024 x 600 resolution, but would not work until I increased the resolution to 1024 x 768, which made the desktop look awful.

So what was potentially an interesting new OS for my tablet, turned out to be a waste of time. I don't for one moment believe that the resolution issue was a technical one, but a marketing one. Ask me to prove that and I'll tell you to go jump.

I bet this was a decision based off of UI scaling at different resolutions. The reason I presume the resolution hack looked weird was probably because the display itself isn't designed for that resolution. On a typical 4:3 LCD monitor, that resolution looks fine. On a more 16:9 LCD display, it looks iffy. I doubt it was meant to buy new tablets. There are VERY few of those 7 powered tablets as it is, so it makes little marketing/profit sense to target such a small category.

The app snap however, that would make more sense as being a marketing move as that would require EVERY laptop since vista that has the base resolution would need to be upgraded to use that feature even though on the Desktop with Windows 7 or 8, they can successfully snap windows together.

 

[David Bailey]

This is a place for thoughts & opinions so I thought I would add my Thoughts & opinions.

Different people like & dislike different things.

Expressing one's opinion over & over will annoy some.

Others will not be bothered by it.

To keep on & on about something must be motivated by a reason.

One could ask oneself, "Why am I doing this ?" .

Seeking insight into one's actions by internal reflection is good.

I apologize in advance if my thoughts & opinions here-stated offend anyone.

 

[Ray8]

I bet this was a decision based off of UI scaling at different resolutions. The reason I presume the resolution hack looked weird was probably because the display itself isn't designed for that resolution. On a typical 4:3 LCD monitor, that resolution looks fine. On a more 16:9 LCD display, it looks iffy. I doubt it was meant to buy new tablets. There are VERY few of those 7 powered tablets as it is, so it makes little marketing/profit sense to target such a small category.

The app snap however, that would make more sense as being a marketing move as that would require EVERY laptop since vista that has the base resolution would need to be upgraded to use that feature even though on the Desktop with Windows 7 or 8, they can successfully snap windows together.

There are actually quite a number of tablets (as well as notebooks/laptops) available that are Windows 7 compatible, these came out well before Windows 8 was even beta released. I mean, Microsoft has been bandying about that you don't need a powerful machine to run Windows 8. But sorry, you can't enjoy it without buying something with a compatible screen.

I chose the Gigabyte as a value for money proposition, compared to the more well known tablet/laptop manufacturers. And I said that the registry hack allowed the tablet to display at 1024 x 768 (native resolution 1024 x 600) so that the apps would work, but naturally the desktop display would not look all that good. LCDs don't scale up very well. All the gestures etc worked fine and the apps screen looked no different in 1024 x 768 as it does in 1024 x 600. And one reason why I like the lower resolution is because it's easier on the eyes.

If Microsoft had allowed lower resolutions to work with the apps, I think that it would have given people an opportunity to upgrade a perfectly working device and experience the apps at a relatively low cost. That may have prompted many to consider an upgrade to their device, if they found the apps to their liking. These aren't great economic times the world over, so relying on people upgrading perfectly functioning devices, just to experience Windows 8, I think is a poor move.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

The poking tongue is usually associated with a razz, a wink is usually associated with a light ribbing, at least on all the sites I've been on. The icons on this site are quite odd compared to ones I'm used to.

Why is it that because one feature of Windows 8 isn't a major factor for me in a tablet or PC, it's a reason not to buy one at all? It's like saying in a year's time, when all that you can get is Windows 8 on a tablet, that you'd better not buy a tablet, even if the form-factor is just what you need. Or that I can never buy a Windows PC again, because it comes with Windows 8. That's a bizarre way of thinking.

I'm clearly one of the great unwashed, because I haven't 'seen the light' according to the acolytes on this forum. The fact that I'm using Windows 8 clearly indicates that I'm able to cope with it, but why should I love it?

Ok, Ray. So far as I know the tongue in cheek is "razzing" and not to be taken seriously. I mean no offense to you, Ray. Just simply funning with you. I consider most members here technically advanced, for after all, it's a technology forum dedicated to 8. In fact, most here are more technology advanced than I, as I'm sure you are.

I'm a novice. The building business is my specialty, so I comment more from a business point of view, although I don't have a degree in that either. I learned that by starting a business and reading a lot on it. All in all, I was college material that started to make a lot of money in learning a construction trade, so college went out the door.

Consider yourself lucky if you're in IT, for the building business sucks since the U.S. housing crash and subsequently the economy decline. It's not looking very good, although I try to keep a positive attitude about it.

Wouldn't you say that there's more than one issue you have with the components and structure of 8? The big one I see is that it is primarily designed for touch and that it doesn't belong on a desktop PC? We fanboiz (or whatever we're called) think MS did a great job in adapting it as such. One of the objectives and plans of MS with targeting a "touch market" is to create an OS that will be used across all devices to become familiar to all, not just the technically advanced. We are by far not the only ones that buy MS products as you know. We may think we're important so far as that is concerned, but we're not. We may be so far as mouth-to-mouth opinions and advertising.

The Start Screen is the major component that's obviously the big difference of prior OSs. It's the big clue that MS is targeting a "touch market". It's the big change that some find hard to cope with. Touch is not the only objective of the Start Screen. Live tiles with updated personal information is the secondary. One is able to personalize it as such, but primarily it was created for touch.

Would you please do me the honor of answering some questions I have, for you seem to be familiar with touch. The only touch device I've used is my Android phone and a few others of my friends. I have fiddled around with 8 a bit on devices in stores. I do plan on purchasing a bigger mobile touch device in the near future.

Is a cascading Start Menu as easy or easier to navigate with than the Start Screen on any size screen? Please keep in mind that I have, as I'm sure others have, wide fingers that I find hard to use the on my phone's screen keyboard in the portrait view. I most always have to use it in landscape view. I'm aware that pad screens are bigger, therefore may be easier to use.

Does (or will) the cascading Start Menu give me the updated personal information that I desire upon boot that the Start Screen has "spoiled" me with?

If not, do you think MS could have incorporated that info in a newly designed cascading Start Menu such as 7 had?

If not, what would you have designed?

Can we agree that MS is targeting a certain market? Do you think MS is so ignorant to leave the business and power users (as consumers) out of their business plan?

If not, do you think that a 9 or Blue is going to satisfy those?

Bizarre way of thinking? Please forgive me, but it seems to me you skipped a few editions if your list under your name is complete. I'm well aware that 8 has some better underlying features, but the fact remains that it is primarily designed for touch with the Start Screen and All Apps as primary components to navigate with. Why don't we admit that anything hereafter that comes from MS will be primarily designed for touch. Others are designing for this trend as well.

I think touch is here to stay. It's not going away. It's the future here now. A "Star Trek" thing so to speak. If you used 7 on a touch device as you say, then you had to have known that more advanced touch navigation was on it's way. Yes?

Lastly, we "fanboiz" for the most part try not to troll or put anyone down for not liking 8 or even some of it's features. Please keep in mind that we use it for what it's designed to be. Surely we'll defend it for what it is. We think it to be a good thing just as it is. I, for one, think MS is on the correct track to reach a certain market. I think the 9 or Blue will fit your needs better. I think we all need to be patient with what is to come from MS.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?.

For being 61, your ignorance sure does show. To say that someone has no business using something because of one minor facet that people admit they only spend seconds in, and can be easily ignored is just plain assnine. There are other benefits to being on Windows 8 that you and the "general public" must not be aware of in performance, security and other areas - obviously you didn't research?. But it must be "cool" to tell your grandkids you're up with the times.

As you can see, Ray answered for himself. The post was directed at him, not you.

Excuse me, but it's more than "one minor facet" as you stated. I don't appreciate the judgment call of ignorance. Rather a personal attack, wouldn't you say?! Like Adelle sings -> Who the hell are you?"

I'm well aware of what 8 is and what's incorporated and did research it, thank you.

And yes, my grandchildren think I'm the coolest!

From now on and so far as I'm concerned, talk to the hand.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?.

For being 61, your ignorance sure does show. To say that someone has no business using something because of one minor facet that people admit they only spend seconds in, and can be easily ignored is just plain assnine. There are other benefits to being on Windows 8 that you and the "general public" must not be aware of in performance, security and other areas - obviously you didn't research?. But it must be "cool" to tell your grandkids you're up with the times.

As you can see, Ray answered for himself. The post was directed at him, not you.

I'm well aware of what 8 is and contains. I researched it as I do any product, thank you.

It's more than "one minor facet" as you stated. I didn't appreciate the judgment call of ignorance. Seems to me to be a personal attack wouldn't you say? As Adelle sings -> "Who the hell are you?"

Yes, my grandchildren think I'm the coolest.

From now on and so far as I'm concerned, talk to the hand.

 

[symbiont]

If touch isn't or "wasn't a priority and is a vey low use function for me", then I think you have no business ever looking at 8. Surely you must have researched it before installing and trying?.

For being 61, your ignorance sure does show. To say that someone has no business using something because of one minor facet that people admit they only spend seconds in, and can be easily ignored is just plain assnine. There are other benefits to being on Windows 8 that you and the "general public" must not be aware of in performance, security and other areas - obviously you didn't research?. But it must be "cool" to tell your grandkids you're up with the times.

As you can see, Ray answered for himself. The post was directed at him, not you.

I'm well aware of what 8 is and contains. I researched it as I do any product, thank you.

It's more than "one minor facet" as you stated. I didn't appreciate the judgment call of ignorance. Seems to me to be a personal attack wouldn't you say? As Adelle sings -> "Who the hell are you?"

Yes, my grandchildren think I'm the coolest.

From now on and so far as I'm concerned, talk to the hand.

The last time I checked, this was a public forum. And as such - I can quote to respond to anything I please. The statement that I quoted of yours was an ignorant statement, plain and simple. Touch/Start Screen at this current time and in it's current form are a minor facet, period. So to say someone shouldn't even bother looking at Windows 8 if they aren't using going to utilize touch, is in fact ignorant.

And lol @ Adelle