Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late

  1. #91


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Hello all, first post but I've been lurking for a while.

    Users like those that participate in forums like these or read tech blogs and even the tech blog writers themselves are only a small percentage of Windows users in the grand scheme of things. Microsoft collects Windows usage information from the Customer Experience program on all their products, the default is checked to yes and common users tend to keep default settings. Based on these usage statistics common users make up over 80% of the install base while users like you and I are under 5%. The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu, they mostly launch apps from shortcuts on their desktop or even use explorer. Working in IT I can say that a majority of our users fall into the same usage patterns, their desktops are littered with shortcuts. The other thing is that a majority of consumers PC functions involves browsing the internet, social sites, email etc and when required work on that occasional word document. What has been happening is that people are buying iPads, or other tablets, for their daily content ingestion then fall back onto their PCs or Macs when they need to do "other" work. The point I'm making here is that we need to take the blinders off in thinking that everyone is like us or use computers the way we do because we are in the minority.

    Booting into the Desktop or Metro? Most peoples view of this is based on not only what they are used to but the fact that all their current applications are desktop apps. The common user is going to start their collection of Apps and they will out number their desktop Apps rather quickly. If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.

    The Enterprise. Most companies don't adopt early into a new OS and as in past iterations of Windows the consumer will have used the latest at home prior to even using it at work. Once the Enterprise is ready to start their upgrade cycle to Windows 8 most employees will have been using Windows 8 at home for some time already. Microsoft has never targeted Windows 8 for the Enterprise anyway, actually they have even said themselves that they don't expect adoption at the Enterprise level yet and that Windows 8 use will be more like the iPad as a companion device. All the Enterprise talk comes from tech blogs and the media. If Windows Server 2012 is any indication of what the Enterprise version of Windows 8 will be then it may boot to desktop after all. BTW, Windows Server 2012 still has a Start Screen.

    Lastly, the Windows 8 Blogs are a good source of information on the why's of Windows 8 & Metro. They go into much detail about their design choices and is always a good read. From a lot of the responses and opinions I see in forums and tech blogs on Windows 8 I don't think many "techies" actually read it. Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

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  2. #92


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    Welcome to Eight Forums R0bR.

    Very well said, I think the common users will adopt to Win8 very quickly. The ones that have tablets/slates even faster, and that group will increase in the short term.

    MS will change to meet the needs of the largest user group.
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  3. #93


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu
    I am pretty sure it has not shown that.

    It may have shown start menu is used a little less often since the introduction of taskbar pinning.

    I know a lot of average users - sure they have shortcuts and taskbar pins - but they still use the start menu a lot - it is their steering wheel.


    If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.
    Nobody is asking for that. Let it boot to Metro by default - but allow a choice to change that to boot to desktop for those who want it.
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  4. #94


    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail


    R0bR, I seriously doubt that. I myself use the start menu, I hate a desktop, and taskbar polluted with icons, It's just messy, and as the saying goes, a messy desktop makes a messy mind.
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  5. #95


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    I'm sure M$ and others they hire to do independents have executed a ton of surveys. M$ is a successful multi $billion business. I think they might know a little about what they're doing and which specific market to target and with what software to shoot that market with.
    That is why they never release a product which is unpopular.

    You might not have noticed MS share price is half what it was a few years back.


    @ some on this forum, especially some Pros

    Most people aren't as stupid and slow as you may think, especially the younger. We live in a pretty-much literate world today. We're no longer in the dark ages. They will read the help files, seek personal help, or whatever it takes to learn something, what I believe, is drastically new, an OS named Windows 8. I suggest to come off your high horses and walk some ground down here. At least for a while.
    It is not about learning a new UI.

    It is about what win8 is for. The purpose is to lead people online to MS clouds.

    The eventual aim is the o/s will boot up online, the average punter will get at it using any little simple device which has a few little squares to stab at.

    The consequences of that are what concern the "pros".
    Hi there
    Please be careful of quoting share prices here -- some of us are still active Traders !!!.

    Anyway for your information here's the 52 week high and low of Ms stock.

    (Note I'm not commenting at all on your other observations -- just simply saying you need to be a bit more circumspect when posting Stock Exchange data.)

    The 52 week high low price is about average for most of the S&P 500 lately -- until the Euro situation sorts itself out (and perhaps I shouldn't say this -- and Obama leaves the white house in November ) nothing dramatic will happen to US equities so Ms would be one of the LAST companies I'd worry about having an investment in.

    I'm not sure if the other candidate would be any better either -- that's up to US voters to decide -- but Markets are quite clear on the issue -- they want Obama out regardless of other consequencies.

    In any case remember the old UK stock exchange adage "... Sell in May and Go away...." -- then buy back in Sept or so.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails msft.png  
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  6. #96


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    Based on these usage statistics common users make up over 80% of the install base while users like you and I are under 5%. The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu ...
    I would have to strongly disagree with that statement. Usage figures are only statistically valid if the base they are collected from is representative of the total user population. All that proves is that 80% of those who responded don't use start menu. The real question is what % of buyers of MS products provide usage feedback?

    Office workers, most experienced home users, power users and geeks, probably wouldn't bother providing feedback. That is certainly my personal experience with persons I have encountered in those groups ... and there have been many. Whenever I've put the question to them, the usual response I get is sardonic, like: "Get real, or Get a lfe".

    Would be interesting to have stats on how many people register their product? And how many newbies install all the undesirable "optional extras" when installling freeware programs. Most end up with a truck load of add ons and search engines. Simply because a lot do it, does that make it a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by R0bR View Post
    If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.
    As SIW2 said, nobody is asking to remove Metro. But don't have it at the expense of depriving desktop users of a direct boot to desktop. We're simply asking that an optional boot be provided to cater to our needs. And a legacy start menu.

    I mean, how hard is that? Shell Classic does both very quickly and easily. Why do Microsoft refuse?

    You might ask: Well why worry if Classic Shell does it for you? My response would be: Why should we have to when we're paying the money for the product that keeps MS in business.
    Last edited by Mustang; 30 Jul 2012 at 16:33.
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  7. #97


    Posts : 51
    Windows 8 pre-release


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    R0bR, I seriously doubt that. I myself use the start menu, I hate a desktop, and taskbar polluted with icons, It's just messy, and as the saying goes, a messy desktop makes a messy mind.

    I agree with Lonewolf. I am firmly bound to the start menu--even more so now that I have been using Metro as my regular workstation. I am trying hard to get used to the fact that most non-metro apps will cause Metro to pause while it changes to the desktop in order to run a Windows application. I really don't use the Metro apps that much because I guess I am a desktop user at heart.

    On the other hand, if I am in the 5% on this one, I still view my needs as being crucial to how I get work done. To me, a computer should make doing work easier. I am a little annoyed at how Win 8 must constantly shift back and forth between Metro and the desktop--I just wish that one or the other was robust enough to get its work done in an efficient manner. A messy desktop is confusing to me, also.

    It's funny, but I installed Windows Classic shell once and found myself missing the simplicity of Metro.
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  8. #98


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    @Jimbo,

    I wasn't commeneting on the last 52 weeks - I am talking a few years - It used to be around $60 - recently it has been around $30.

    I am not sure if one can heap opprobrium on Steve Ballmer as the writer below does - still it gives an indication of the unfortunate plunge in MS value.

    It is because they haven't been getting things right very often. That is the point I was making.


    It probably won't suddenly go massively lower because whatever happens now - MS will still have cash rolling in for several years from previous deals.

    Oops! Five CEOs Who Should Have Already Been Fired (Cisco, GE, WalMart, Sears, Microsoft) - Forbes

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  9. #99


    Posts : 534
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    I would have to strongly disagree with that statement. Usage figures are only statistically valid if the base they are collected from is representative of the total user population. All that proves is that 80% of those who responded don't use start menu. The real question is what % of buyers of MS products provide usage feedback?
    Approx. 90% of the worlds PC population runs Windows, even if only 5% of those users leave the default setting for Customer Experience Program checked it's a large enough sample size to make any statistical feedback Microsoft receives valid. However I'm sure the percentage is much higher than that.
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  10. #100


    New Zealand
    Posts : 91
    Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1


    Quoting Mark Twain and others.

    There are "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

    The reason it is being removed is to force people away from the desktop and towards Metro.

    If someone looked at my usage of the start menu. They could claim I use it very infrequently. That is because my common programs are all in Quick Launch shortcuts, shortcut keys and the Macro Buttons on my keyboard. The occasionally used utilities etc are all filed away, sorted under folders in my start menu. Typing the executables name in the search box mostly would not work because they are only occasionally used and I would not know what to start typing.
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How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late
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