Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster

  1. #81

    Posts : 1,353
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP

    I don't know about some of you guys, a few years ago I would have called myself a real power user, I would have easily had over 200 programmes and Utilities. I ran all kinds of Quick launch apps and pinned progs to the task bar, but in all my life, I've never ever felt the need to pin 50 progs or more to any task bar or quick launch bar. Doesn't that defet the purpose of quick launch, at the most I would have ever had would be 15.
    All I can say is you guys must have the best memories on the planet to be able to remember so many icons and what they do, and I thought DOS was tough. Now I know why you hate Metro.

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  2. #82

    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional

    Here the process is simple. Each addon bar is for a different purpose as far as what goes in it. The Quick Bar has different browsers and other things like Paint, PaintNet, a shortcut for the calculator and NotePad, iso create and burn or write programs, and is the quick launch for VMs as well as the XP Mode which does run on 8 but on the VMware Lite Workstation only.

    For the next bar system functions on the opposite side of the items pinned to hold varions shortcuts like services, power plan, Disk Management, etc. rather then digging for each one with repeat trips into the Start search or Control Panel. The next is for various utilities which may only be an executable in a folder like ProcMon or GPU-Z. The last two have the interesting names of "Area 51" and "Area 52" one being for various titles with the other strictly for add on mods(Partial or complete 3rd party developer missions) created by those eventually hired on by VALVe/Steam.

    Would you want to see some 80 or more desktop shortcuts to go through or organize by a simple right click option to select a folder ont the drive that hold numerous shortcuts? It certainly saves time not clicking on the Start>programs as well as not cluttering up the task bar either.

    If you think repeat trips to the Start>Programs is annoying what about repeat trips to the Start screen and then needing to scroll through different screens each time to find what you want? \Go to the bottom corner, wait for the Start popup, click on the popup, scroll how many screens?

    That depends of course on how many things are pinned there by installers or you, and then repeat each step multiple times with a gui that requires "extra steps" to begin with compared to any previous version. The quick launch type tool bars on the other hand simplify things by not having everything on an endless screen or one menu extending out across the screen as it grows in size.

    But the next user then comes along and says: "I prefer something else!" where no one can dispute individual preferences. The Metro on the other hand doesn't offer any real choice except to create a new catagory there for any group of items.

    And as for businesses not planning to rush at each new version it's not only installing a new Windows but the need to redo all softwares as well as the expense of new machines. They tend to upgrade things only when their businesses need to upgrade out of necessity not how old something is. Otherwise it's "business as usual" being the bottom line there.
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  3. #83

    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    That's simply due to stretching the taskbar and tossing everything onto it. The toolbar method on the other hand separate things by catagory here.
    You didn't read the message I linked to, nor the message I posted earlier, or you just aren't understanding any of it. I don't know how to speak any more plainly. I gave a screenshot and explained in excruciating detail how I keep my most used programs pinned to the taskbar, while for less frequently used programs, I put folder shortcuts in another area of the taskbar, and I use them instead of toolbars, and again, I explained why, though it's essentially the same thing, "separating things by category". In the message I linked to, which I wrote 3 months ago, I explained that I keep related programs grouped together. Here's part of what I wrote:

    I've got around 50 programs pinned to the taskbar with room left for 5 transient programs. They are grouped by purpose, with all the multimedia viewing programs together, office programs together, etc. To the right of the pinned icons, there are 12 folder shortcuts. The top six contain additional shortcuts for infrequently used programs that I copied from the Start Menu using drag and drop. The bottom six are for frequently accessed file folders.

    Here I keep icons on the taskbar small as well to allow for more viewing area.
    Doesn't using RocketDock plus the taskbar make that pretty much moot? In any case, the "small icon" argument is something I've also addressed several times, including pre-emptively in the message I linked to. More recently, I noted that increasing the size of my taskbar did not turn any document from non-scrolling to scrolling, and it hasn't been any kind of impediment. Like I've said several times, I'm a software developer, who has put a premium on vertical space for decades, who was very resistant to increasing the size of the taskbar, and was surprised to find it worked out great, while still leaving me room for almost 50 lines of text in Visual Studio editor windows. If your taskbar is always visible, unless you're using a monitor with very limited vertical resolution, you may find it's OK to give up a little vertical space to simplify things and improve productivity. With large icons and a 1680x1050 monitor, I recently noted that a 1-row taskbar takes up 4% of the vertical resolution, and each additional row takes up another 4%. Just two rows would give you room for 30+ programs, with room left over for transient ones, and that's if you use 20% of the horizontal space for a single toolbar containing folder shortcuts like me. Get rid of that, and you could probably do 40+ programs.
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  4. #84

    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional

    Doesn't using RocketDock plus the taskbar make that pretty much moot?
    Not on a dual display set up where no pinned items are to be found on the extended Smart bar placed there either by UltraMon on 7 or DisplayFusion on 8. Plus that is set to auto hide itself over the taskbar on both screens being set to remain visible at all time unless running something full screen.

    As for the addon quick launch bars those also automatically hide from view leaving no desktop clutter hanging around. That helps when going to take a snipping of something and not having any intrusions by task bars, desktop shortcuts, side bars, gadgets, etc.
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  5. #85

    Posts : 10
    Windows 7 Ultimate

    I will never use Windows 8. Metro is a curse as far as I'm concerned. MS have lost the plot.
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  6. #86

    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional

    The Metro is an annoyance for most who simply are looking for a way to edit the batch file telling it to load at startup. It's not encoded into explorer.exe otherwise when clicking the desktop button the desktop would stall.

    It would be more on the idea of the old Win.ini and Sys.ini files in the old legacy versions where finding the entry for Metro and editing that out of the startup would be what most want. But the idea of needing a 3rd party app for the Start>Program and shutdown options button was solved by jimbo45 using the Windows Power Shell.

    What I am finding lately is a few other apparent problems proving 7 is still the better! When changing from Native iDE to AHCI in the bios setup following the latest clean install of both 7 and a Refresh PC move with 8 7 installed the OS drives fresh with a prompt to restart as expected in order to finish installing the other two storage/backup drives to complete the transition from ide to SCSI mode. 8 now refuses to load when trying to boot from the second drive!

    Another clean install of the RP? or should I try another project I had in mind? hhhmmm.. all went well with 7 but 8... is revealing itself to be a little buggy still! 8 should have auto detected the change and adjusted the boot process to reinstall the OS drives like 7 did without issue if it has the improvements in that regard.

    Another issue found is when the 8 Refresh automatically added 7 into the boot options and suddenly out of nowhere 8 started freezing up for no reason forcing the Refresh PC option which of course wipes itself clean of all programs packing things away in the Windows.old but not a repair install option by any means if you are trying to preserve the programs! Then while still booting into 7 from the 8 boot options 7 started freezing up as well.

    The Disk Check tool used later once the 7 drive was reset as default cured the freeze ups right away. But when trying to boot into 8 when selecting that drive to see the same as well as remove the 7 boot entry it stalls. The best part is finding out what was revealed in the memory dump from the hard boot needed for 7 where the infamous "ntoskmi.exe" boot error came up!

    The problem wasn't from 7 which had just seen a clean install but the boot from the 8 side leading to drive errors! Best advice for any 7/8 dual boot is two separate drives and each see a stand alone install and simply bring up the boot device menu to select the 8 drive in order to boot into 8. Or you can set the 8 drive as default and use the same for booting into 7 leaving both isolatied from each other!
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  7. #87

    tell me more about how many of those icons you actually click everyday ... thats the point of metro to simplify things not overkill your eyes.
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  8. #88

    Posts : 454
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    tell me more about how many of those icons you actually click everyday ... thats the point of metro to simplify things not overkill your eyes.
    Please quote to indicate who you're talking to. If you're talking to me, I put the icons on my taskbar to simplify things, and they do a great job of that.

    For some unfathomable reason, Microsoft thinks I'd like to use a full-screen modal Start Screen that contains fewer huge tiles that I didn't put there, including two that are partially off-screen and distractingly flip-flopping between a picture of Eric Holder and a headline and a picture of some hockey players and a headline. I find that as bizarre as it is presumptuous as it is useless. Even if I were to bother customizing this more to my liking, there would not be room enough to make it interesting without making the tiles even huger, and in the end, I'd still have a modal Start Screen that's difficult to navigate and takes me away from my Windows 7 taskbar where I have pinned all my main programs, where I have jump lists, progress indicators, window switching, etc. As for the other tiles, they lead to craptastic apps such as the Music app, which as I've noted before, has a partially off-screen ad for some hip-hop knucklehead I would never have on my computer, and is otherwise completely useless. The fail truly is hard to comprehend. It boggles the mind.
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  9. #89

    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional

    If I took all of the shortcuts from just addon quick launch tool bar here and pinned them all onto the taskbar the taskbar would likely fill the entire screen!

    Click image for larger version

    That toolbar is strictly for utility programs like PowerISO or PC Wizard. Now just imagine combining all those that actually extend past the bottom of the desktop plus all from the other addon bars and dragged them onto the desktop. I would need a third or even fourth monitor just to reply back here!

    Can you imagine how far I would need to scroll on the Metro?! "scroll scroll scrolling away each and every day!" yeah right!

    With the previous install of 7 the number of programs installed was a bit staggering to say the least. When I say needing a 3rd or 4th monitor that will prove itself when I made up a screen to illustrate how busy the last 7 install was.

    Click image for larger version

    That should show right there why it would be nothing but total disaster to try and pin everything to the task bar or Start screen since it takes up more then what you would ever want to see for desktop shortcuts on a dual display setup. The addon bar serve to absorb the overflow of apps far easier!

    That leaves the desktop free for other things as well as being kept organized when really having volumes of apps loaded on.

    Click image for larger version

    Now compare that to only a limited number of apps on the Start screen and try to imagine how all those would fit on the touchscreen Tablet PC orientated gui being passed off as a desktop OS.

    Click image for larger version

    If you could stretch that across multiple monitors it might be usable as long as you could shrink the size of the icons down considerably. But until MS decides to come up with another working desktop the word will simply be "improvise"!
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  10. #90

    Perth West Australia
    Posts : 128
    1st PC: Win7 Ultimate 64bit Retail. 2nd PC: Vista Ulimtate 32bit OEM

    The linked lead article by Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, and Post #89 by Night Hawk, really says it all.

    Adrian Kingsley-Hughes: Iím now ready to sum up my Windows 8 experience with a single word: Awful!

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    "SCROLL, SCROLL, SCROLLING AWAY, each and every day!" yeah right!

    But until MS decides to come up with another working desktop the word will simply be "IMPROVISE"!
    The rest is purely academic until it's out there retail. Until then you'll just have to sweat on your bets, if you've laid money!

    Nobody in either camp, for or against, wants to see Microsoft go down. Over the years, they have brought an international standard and stability to a chaotic computer world. On all continents, manufacturers of 3rd party apps & hardware, ISPs and government departments, tailor them to work on Windows.

    And we've come to expect and rely on that, because they've always been the pace setter ... almost like a world wide government authority. Windows works wherever you are, from TimBukTu to Grand Central.

    But if they go down, the benchmark will be lost and it will be a free-for-all state of anarchy.

    Surely there's a lesson to be learned from the Firewire versus USB saga. Simply put, Firewire tried to make people pay for the privilege of doing things their way, instead of listening to their customers. USB was freely provided. And the rest is history.
    Last edited by poppa bear; 21 Jun 2012 at 00:35.
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Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster
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