Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster

  1. #11


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    That's metro design for you, it's decisive. Either you like it or you don't. Simple as that....

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  2. #12


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    If the Metro was only an optional layout for those with touchscreen displays but still retained some familiarity with a standard desktop you would simply look at this as a new option 8 was bringing in not something being jammed down your throat! "This is the way it will be and that's final!" is how MS is introducing 8 as the next major release of the Windows OS.

    I have a friend that wouldn't even look at 7 yet he will at Vista since he didn't like not being able to lower the screen resolution and considers 7 too involved. Vista still had the option for the Classic theme as well as bringing in the Aero while for 7 the Classic was then gone. Yet most who have run 7 for any period of time stuck with 7 and easily accepted those changes since they were within reason!

    In order to make 8 you not only have to pin your favorites on the taskbar, create a desktop shortcut, or run some addon like RocketDock or CircleDock, or even go as far as pinning the Programs folder to the taskbar if not having a shortcut to avoid the need to return to the Start screen for every little thing. Back and forth, back and forth just to open a second IE or WE window becomes tedious in a fast hurry!

    And then there's the need for the other addons like Start menu 7 or Classic Shell(preferred here), Start8, etc. involving the need for 3rd party addons for replacing standard items people would otherwise expect to see included with any new version despite something new to replace Aero even while Metro isn't what would.

    As for someone who has been running most versions since dos and 3.1 W8 is a big letdown following the realization of 7's success as the champion of all versions to date! MS finally got it right with 7 but now will falter with the next version not learning at all about how to take 7 further knowing it was a working OS!

    But just like XP needed SP1 just to get the old version there going and finally SP3 cleaning up the mess of code errors and other things like security while Vista saw the bad rep instead for being larger but far more stable and secure(despite endless delays causing XP ro reign) most will be electing to stay with the version that does work for them.

    Likewise security and stability factors have been improved with 7 and in 8 as far as the core elements while the desktop interface(gui) people are accustomed to is "trashed" as well as MS removing things people normally expect to see included are the turnoff factors.

    Unexpected compatibility issues or compatibility issues when comparing Vista to XP while 7 was for the most part backward compatible to XP in many ways was another success seen with 7. Fat support restored with 7 for things like usb flash drives and exFat seen on new external Windows/the other guy's OS compatible drives being sold.

    Here I am still trying to get at the inner workings besides the gui change to see if it would even be worth dual booting the 7 Ultimate with 8 HP or Pro? You can always "buy" into OS tweakers just to run any new OS while why change what you have that already works? For others just having the next version is a different story there what to simply say "We are the OS Geeks!"?

    Decisions about 8 will need to be based on more then just whether or not you do or don't like the Metro UI. Many hated the Aero seen with the past two versions! So you can't really say that the Metro alone is the seller or the turnoff. It will be a bit more confusing for the novice user however!
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  3. #13


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    If the Metro was only an optional layout for those with touchscreen displays but still retained some familiarity with a standard desktop you would simply look at this as a new option 8 was bringing in not something being jammed down your throat! "This is the way it will be and that's final!" is how MS is introducing 8 as the next major release of the Windows OS.

    I have a friend that wouldn't even look at 7 yet he will at Vista since he didn't like not being able to lower the screen resolution and considers 7 too involved. Vista still had the option for the Classic theme as well as bringing in the Aero while for 7 the Classic was then gone. Yet most who have run 7 for any period of time stuck with 7 and easily accepted those changes since they were within reason!

    In order to make 8 you not only have to pin your favorites on the taskbar, create a desktop shortcut, or run some addon like RocketDock or CircleDock, or even go as far as pinning the Programs folder to the taskbar if not having a shortcut to avoid the need to return to the Start screen for every little thing. Back and forth, back and forth just to open a second IE or WE window becomes tedious in a fast hurry!

    And then there's the need for the other addons like Start menu 7 or Classic Shell(preferred here), Start8, etc. involving the need for 3rd party addons for replacing standard items people would otherwise expect to see included with any new version despite something new to replace Aero even while Metro isn't what would.

    As for someone who has been running most versions since dos and 3.1 W8 is a big letdown following the realization of 7's success as the champion of all versions to date! MS finally got it right with 7 but now will falter with the next version not learning at all about how to take 7 further knowing it was a working OS!

    But just like XP needed SP1 just to get the old version there going and finally SP3 cleaning up the mess of code errors and other things like security while Vista saw the bad rep instead for being larger but far more stable and secure(despite endless delays causing XP ro reign) most will be electing to stay with the version that does work for them.

    Likewise security and stability factors have been improved with 7 and in 8 as far as the core elements while the desktop interface(gui) people are accustomed to is "trashed" as well as MS removing things people normally expect to see included are the turnoff factors.

    Unexpected compatibility issues or compatibility issues when comparing Vista to XP while 7 was for the most part backward compatible to XP in many ways was another success seen with 7. Fat support restored with 7 for things like usb flash drives and exFat seen on new external Windows/the other guy's OS compatible drives being sold.

    Here I am still trying to get at the inner workings besides the gui change to see if it would even be worth dual booting the 7 Ultimate with 8 HP or Pro? You can always "buy" into OS tweakers just to run any new OS while why change what you have that already works? For others just having the next version is a different story there what to simply say "We are the OS Geeks!"?

    Decisions about 8 will need to be based on more then just whether or not you do or don't like the Metro UI. Many hated the Aero seen with the past two versions! So you can't really say that the Metro alone is the seller or the turnoff. It will be a bit more confusing for the novice user however!
    If you're really going back to the Start Screen that often, I think you might not have the best work flow pattern.
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  4. #14


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    When you first go to install either the CP or RP what do you run right into once past the Lock/Logon screens? The Start screen.

    Once you find the desktop button and arrive there you may want to open a second window or app. If you need open a seocond IE window or want to copy and paste and need that second WE window opened where do you go? The pinned shortcut won't open a second meaning back to Square #1 to click the Metro shortcut if one is present there.

    Now for those familiar with the Windows key + letter E combination they wouldn't run into any problem seeing a second WE windows opened. For those not familiar at all with keyboard shortcuts on the other hand "back and forth" becomes the constant factor. Having a Quick Launch bar added to the taskbar if not using another 3rd party addon will of course save on the additional steps.

    But what if you don't pin things to the task bar or even know about RocketDock as one example? You can still see them pinned to the Start screen if the Windows installer doesn't already do that for any new app going on. Pinning things to the Start screen once you find the Programs folder will help but still brings you back to.. Square #1.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    When you first go to install either the CP or RP what do you run right into once past the Lock/Logon screens? The Start screen.

    Once you find the desktop button and arrive there you may want to open a second window or app. If you need open a seocond IE window or want to copy and paste and need that second WE window opened where do you go? The pinned shortcut won't open a second meaning back to Square #1 to click the Metro shortcut if one is present there.

    Now for those familiar with the Windows key + letter E combination they wouldn't run into any problem seeing a second WE windows opened. For those not familiar at all with keyboard shortcuts on the other hand "back and forth" becomes the constant factor. Having a Quick Launch bar added to the taskbar if not using another 3rd party addon will of course save on the additional steps.

    But what if you don't pin things to the task bar or even know about RocketDock as one example? You can still see them pinned to the Start screen if the Windows installer doesn't already do that for any new app going on. Pinning things to the Start screen once you find the Programs folder will help but still brings you back to.. Square #1.
    From the default configuration of the Start Screen, I could see that happening. But once you pin some of the items you use from the start menu or from Windows Explorer to it, everything works out fine. I have all seven of my libraries pinned to the Start Screen along with Computer and Downloads. I set the defaults on media files so they open on the Desktop and not in an app. I find multitasking on the Desktop to better than on 7 since, for example, if I had many windows open, I would either a) click on show Desktop and find what I need on the Desktop or b) troll the start menu and/or type a search for it. Option a doesn't allow me to see content in all the windows. Option b puts my focus more on the start menu than the window content. The Start Screen though, is a sleek compromise of both. I don't need to minimize all my windows, and I can find things easier.
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  6. #16


    I Love Windows 8 , You guys aint poweruser enough to appreciate it :P
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  7. #17


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I Love Windows 8 , You guys aint poweruser enough to appreciate it :P
    Not all people appreciate things they way you do. I just hate the Start Screen, blocking my Desktop and unless, I use some third party stuff, it always has to come up again at some point. And Windows 7 can do almost all of the things Windows 8 can on the Desktop part, so there is not much reason to upgrade. Period.
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  8. #18


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    When you first go to install either the CP or RP what do you run right into once past the Lock/Logon screens? The Start screen.

    Once you find the desktop button and arrive there you may want to open a second window or app. If you need open a seocond IE window or want to copy and paste and need that second WE window opened where do you go? The pinned shortcut won't open a second meaning back to Square #1 to click the Metro shortcut if one is present there.

    Now for those familiar with the Windows key + letter E combination they wouldn't run into any problem seeing a second WE windows opened. For those not familiar at all with keyboard shortcuts on the other hand "back and forth" becomes the constant factor. Having a Quick Launch bar added to the taskbar if not using another 3rd party addon will of course save on the additional steps.

    But what if you don't pin things to the task bar or even know about RocketDock as one example? You can still see them pinned to the Start screen if the Windows installer doesn't already do that for any new app going on. Pinning things to the Start screen once you find the Programs folder will help but still brings you back to.. Square #1.
    From the default configuration of the Start Screen, I could see that happening. But once you pin some of the items you use from the start menu or from Windows Explorer to it, everything works out fine. I have all seven of my libraries pinned to the Start Screen along with Computer and Downloads. I set the defaults on media files so they open on the Desktop and not in an app. I find multitasking on the Desktop to better than on 7 since, for example, if I had many windows open, I would either a) click on show Desktop and find what I need on the Desktop or b) troll the start menu and/or type a search for it. Option a doesn't allow me to see content in all the windows. Option b puts my focus more on the start menu than the window content. The Start Screen though, is a sleek compromise of both. I don't need to minimize all my windows, and I can find things easier.
    What I was referring to wasn't someone as well as over at SF with access to an endless list of guides showing you how to do things in each version but for the novice or more recent XP, Vista, 7 user who encounters 8 for the first time let's say when going to buy a new OEM machine and then "surprise"! "How do you find your way around in this thing? ".

    As for the need to minimize windows on 7? I never had to. Between addon toolbars and RocketDock in addition to the Start>Programs menu opening up any next app or going into the Control Panel never required minimizing any open windows to the tassk bar or to an addon bar like RocketDock since the next item will open in the new active window. The desktop at the same time remains free of any shortcuts.

    For things like powering down, restarting the machine, or logging off one account the novice is then completely baffled at where those options are to be found namely with the power button on a hidden popup toolbar they wouldn't even know about. The same with the right click menu appearing in the lower left hand corner.

    For the power user or someone that simply knows how to look for changes in each new version mainly from practical experience they'll simply find the workarounds in order to make 8 work for them. The novice user will be the one stumped and most novices lose patience much faster with large changes over those experienced users that would run 8 for something the new version will support when not able to run the same on a previous version.

    This is what the writer there was pointing out as one reason why MS is running a gambit on the Metro making or breaking 8. For most who found 7 to be a working OS the disappointment of not seeing MS follow that up with 8 taking off in some other direction will simply make many ask "Why bother?" They'll wait to see what 9 will bring and simply skip over 8 entirely.

    Here if anything 8 would simply become a secondary OS in preference of 7. If it was just for what will be removed from 8 like dvd playback for vcd projects I might as well dual boot the 7 host with Vista which would be another step backwards! 8 certainly will no longer support a number of older apps that will still run on the 64bit 7 however.

    And if you have any older game titles that require DX9 you're out of luck with 8! "Not compatible with this version of Windows."! oops! "Sorry gamers!(and media players that use DX9) No more support. You now have to buy all new titles only!"

    At least with 7 even on the 64bit flavor the older Direct X would install along side DX11. It may have been a fluke made by MS originally but it's still a win, win for the dedicated gamers. Vista wouldn't run many older game titles and apps either as the 32bit 7 would. W7 is perhaps the one happy middle ground between two worlds one could say.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    I think, part of what made Windows 7 successful is that, many average users were told somehow that it was "fast" and of course it was new after the many bad reps that Vista had in terms of performance and also the annoying UAC prompts that most people have never seen before but most average users don't really care much about the inside core of the OS. Many average users care about the speed, usability and the smoothness of how the OS performs and some would just make up their minds of the new OS based from the trend and hearsay they've been getting and many just did not bother use the OS on its beta stages. Windows 7 was not perfect, there were critics and there will always be because its impossible for one OS to satisfy everyone, but Windows 7 did satisfy MOST of those that have it and that brought it to success. If you are using Windows 7 from XP, there is less alienation than with XP to Windows 8. So far with Windows 8, its a mixed review.

    Some people who have tried W8, like the Metro and its apps and would defend that UI design and think that it was better than the Desktop and say that those who don't are just simply ignoring the point of this new design, talking in the manner as if to minimize flaws in Windows 8 and give reasons as to why they think it would still succeed. Some don't like W8 and would say it was a disaster and assume it would be on the long run even if no one has clear figures of what is really on people's minds alongside the existence of third party tools that could actually still bring back most of the Start Button and Menu anyway. The discussion goes on forever. Some would rather have W8 on a tablet but not on the PC, some with mixed reviews on their own. But the average Joe would just make up his mind based from what's on the trend, what he hears or what he sees that is powerful enough to convince him and that went well for Windows 7 and yes, iPhones and iPads, disregarding how clumsy to use these products of the fruit company are (to me). As for Windows 8, having mixed reviews and an extra learning curve, with Windows 7 still being in the hype for the Desktop, iPad for tablets, iPhone for phones (trendy gadgets and status symbols from the fruit company that have established their roots deep already) on their peak of attention right now, W8 will not be as successful as Windows 7 nor the products of Apple but I personally think, it would NOT flop towards the buttom. It would still gain respectable market share as devices preinstalled with it will be shipped out into the shelves quite soon but highly unlikely to start a revolution. It would be lucky have 2/3 of the total sales of Windows 7 at this point by the end of 2013.
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  10. #20


    The writing is on the wall. The amount of people who like and support this seems to be a very small percenatage of users. They would most likely take anything windows threw at them and rave about it.
    I personally know many people who have run both versions of W8. not one plans on buying or using it, speaks for itself.
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Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster
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