Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


MS puts a hard block on MSE because it is incompatible with Win8 CP.

  1. #81


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    Glad to hear it helped.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #82


    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by glennc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post

    They're the same glenn.
    That is good news. I wish I knew of a way to re-enable W8's WD, since it turned itself off when I installed NIS. But if W7 is the same, I dump those block updates and install W7's MSE and I'll be good to go! Great news
    Glenn
    I just installed NIS and it didn't disable WD, it only disabled the Windows firewall. You should check the Windows Defender service status:

    Select Winkey+R and type services.msc
    find the two Windows Defender Services - Windows Defender Network Inspection Service and Windows Defender Service
    make sure neither are disabled and make sure Windows Defender Service is started

    With regard to Windows 7 MSE, Microsoft issueda patch to block it's installation on Windows 8 for a reason,. If you want to use MSE/WD, the I'd suggest getting WD working. A lot of security related processes have changed in Windows 8, so using something that been declared is not the wisest thing to do.
    Hello Calico,
    According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
    Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
    Glenn
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #83


    Quote Originally Posted by glennc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by glennc View Post

    That is good news. I wish I knew of a way to re-enable W8's WD, since it turned itself off when I installed NIS. But if W7 is the same, I dump those block updates and install W7's MSE and I'll be good to go! Great news
    Glenn
    I just installed NIS and it didn't disable WD, it only disabled the Windows firewall. You should check the Windows Defender service status:

    Select Winkey+R and type services.msc
    find the two Windows Defender Services - Windows Defender Network Inspection Service and Windows Defender Service
    make sure neither are disabled and make sure Windows Defender Service is started

    With regard to Windows 7 MSE, Microsoft issueda patch to block it's installation on Windows 8 for a reason,. If you want to use MSE/WD, the I'd suggest getting WD working. A lot of security related processes have changed in Windows 8, so using something that been declared is not the wisest thing to do.
    Hello Calico,
    According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
    Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
    Glenn
    Well we will see how well Macrium System Image Restore works, first time I've had to use it. Booting now and I will return..
    Glenn
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #84


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

    The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

    Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?
    Howdy,
    I am not sure exactly what you mean. But if I can get W8 windows defender to work as standalone manual scan, that seems to be the best choice. Unfortunately things are not beginning well, double checking my restore system image as W8 crashed on my preliminary attempts.
    Glenn
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #85


    Posts : 828
    Windows 7 x64 Ultimate/Windows 8.1/Linux


    [QUOTE=glennc;80761][QUOTE=Calico;80640]
    Quote Originally Posted by glennc View Post

    ...Hello Calico,
    According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
    Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
    Glenn
    I think the problems you're encountering, as I said i the other thread, are simply a consequence of running a beta application on a beta Operating System. When I installed NIS (twice) it didn't disable Windows Defender, yet it did for you. If you really want to run beta versions, of third-party security applications, at this stage, you've got to expect the unexpected.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #86


    [QUOTE=Calico;80879][QUOTE=glennc;80761]
    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post

    I think the problems you're encountering, as I said i the other thread, are simply a consequence of running a beta application on a beta Operating System. When I installed NIS (twice) it didn't disable Windows Defender, yet it did for you. If you really want to run beta versions, of third-party security applications, at this stage, you've got to expect the unexpected.
    Yep, I do believe you are right! Thanks for replying!!
    Glenn
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #87


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

    The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

    Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?
    WD in Windows 8 is similar, in that it shares a common interface and AV/AM engine with MSE, but it is also tied-in with the other Windows 8 specific security features, such as secure boot/UEFI. This is not simply MSE bundled with Windows 8.
    When first mentioning about 8 apparently seeing the SE included I also referred to any new security/antimalware protections 8 would be seeing.

    As far WD that's included in the SE as part of the overall program. MS simply built up the SE around WD from the start there in order to offer a more complete av program. They obviously were following suit as to what other software companies are doing with their av programs of bundling layers like antirootkit, antispyware, antiadware protections in along with the av protection.

    (Apparently they realized the WD by itself doesn't offer much to begin with)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #88


    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

    The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

    Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?
    WD in Windows 8 is similar, in that it shares a common interface and AV/AM engine with MSE, but it is also tied-in with the other Windows 8 specific security features, such as secure boot/UEFI. This is not simply MSE bundled with Windows 8.
    When first mentioning about 8 apparently seeing the SE included I also referred to any new security/antimalware protections 8 would be seeing.

    As far WD that's included in the SE as part of the overall program. MS simply built up the SE around WD from the start there in order to offer a more complete av program. They obviously were following suit as to what other software companies are doing with their av programs of bundling layers like antirootkit, antispyware, antiadware protections in along with the av protection.

    (Apparently they realized the WD by itself doesn't offer much to begin with)
    Well I am using a now considered incompatible NIS, so I guess whatever I get. Like to use the new WD, but other issues first!
    Glenn and thanks
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #89


    Posts : 828
    Windows 7 x64 Ultimate/Windows 8.1/Linux


    [QUOTE=glennc;80983][QUOTE=Night Hawk;80951]
    Quote Originally Posted by Calico View Post

    Well I am using a now considered incompatible NIS, so I guess whatever I get. Like to use the new WD, but other issues first!
    Glenn and thanks
    It's not that NIS is incompatible, it's just like all the other third-party security applications, it's still in beta. I don't expect we'll see any 'finished' applications of this type, until well after RTM.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #90


    Posts : 738
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional


    From what I initially saw with the DP not CP the av used here went right on. Sometimes it will take repeat attempts to get something to go on but it will. Perhaps why many apps will end up seeing the incompatible due to stubborn installation issues while still being able to work well.

    But what everyone has now is still "beta"! And as you know all betas have their own bugs to work out!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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MS puts a hard block on MSE because it is incompatible with Win8 CP.
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