Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows is not the desktop and why Windows RT isn't dead

  1. #1


    Posts : 22,576
    64-bit Windows 10

    Windows is not the desktop and why Windows RT isn't dead


    Microsoft's One Windows strategy is only causing confusion because we seem to have forgotten what an operating system is.

    Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella laid out very clearly on the Microsoft earnings call what the strategy is for Windows, which is to "consolidate overlapping efforts. This means one OS that covers all screen sizes".

    He even repeated it; "one, single converged operating system for screens of all sizes".

    That's one OS, built by one OS team, for multiple different systems. What's 'one' about that?

    Nadella talked of one team with a layered architecture which allows it "to scale the UI across all screen sizes. It allows us to create this notion of universal Windows apps and bring coherence there."

    But it's only clear if you're clear on what an operating system is; it's not just the kernel and its certainly not just the desktop, and it doesn't run on only one kind of processor.

    One Windows isn't just the 'three screens and a cloud' strategy of different devices that might share interface elements or let you use the same account, or have a little bit of Windows inside. That's old Microsoft, many-Windows Microsoft.

    At one point, Azure was a fork of Windows with a very different hypervisor; now it's the same OS as Windows Server, with the same Hyper-V hypervisor. But you couldn't take the Azure OS code, put it on a single Xeon server and do anything useful with it because it's designed to do something specific - run a cloud service.

    Windows Phone 8 uses the NT kernel, but it isn't the same OS as Windows 8; not only is the user experience very different but it has different runtimes and (unless you're Microsoft porting across Internet Explorer), you can't build an application that runs on both. Windows Phone 8.1 is closer; it has the WinRT runtime and the concept of universal apps, with the Windows Phone Store and Windows Store being the same underneath. Over 90 percent of the API's are shared between Windows 8.1 Update and Windows Phone 8.1.

    This what executive vice president of the Operating Systems group Terry Myerson talked about last December and it's the same One vision of Windows that's been the plan since the One Microsoft re-org. "We want to have one platform that powers all of our devices," Myerson said at the Credit Suisse technology conference, "so that developers can really target the aggregate scale of Microsoft with their investments."
    Read more at: Windows is not the desktop and why Windows RT isn't dead | ZDNet

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  2. #2


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    I gotta wonder who they're trying to convince.
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  3. #3


    Thanks, Shawn.

    I think she, above others, puts it all in laymen's terms > A team to develop a "platform" of parts to create an OS that fits a particular device for a similar experience across all devices. Not that it's the same or "one" OS. SKUs for different devices is what it boils down to.

    Cool!
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  4. #4


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    Yea, I'm sure you're probably right. It's just that after the 8/8.1 metro/tifkam disaster, so many of their pronouncements just make me downright nervous.

    Seeing the so-called startmenu leaks for 9 does nothing to alleviate my fears either.
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  5. #5


    Nervous that the Desktop app/portal will disappear? Fear not, fellow forumeer, for I now think the desktop will remain even though I've stated that it may not be included in 9. I think now after reading articles lately that there will be some kind of version/SKU that will include the Desktop. Possibly the Enterprise version?

    That would make sense to me. Seems that Nadella and Myerson have more sense of approach than Ballmer and Sinofsky had.
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  6. #6


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    The distinction between desktop and Metro is just going to blur more and more. Eventually you won't be able to tell by just looking if its a Desktop Program or Metro App. That's my take on it anyway. There won't be two sets of rules as to how a Window is sized, positioned and moved.
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  7. #7


    Hafnarfjrur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    The distinction between desktop and Metro is just going to blur more and more. Eventually you won't be able to tell by just looking if its a Desktop Program or Metro App. That's my take on it anyway. There won't be two sets of rules as to how a Window is sized, positioned and moved.

    Hi there.

    I've often posted - and I think others would like it too how re-sizeable BORDERLESS (and titleless) windows would be great - especially on a big screen -- you could have several of these updating in real time (rather like - but infinitely better) than the old GADGETS from VISTA.

    The only way to get borderless applications currently on the desktop is to run things like VLC media player in FULL SCREEN mode. Full screen mode should be an option of course - just hit ESC to shrink back into a conventional "Titled" window

    That way you could have a totally seamless operation between classical applications and Metro -- I'd certainly love some of my applications to be able to run in Borderless windows without having to run them in Full screen -- what about for example TWO concurrent Power point presentations projected to a Huge 80 inch screen at a Work meeting-. (You can of course run too instances or more now but I think the borderless presentations would make them clearer in a lot of cases).

    What I would draw the line at is in having these applications (or any applications) from being forced to run in fixed screen sizes like now (1/2, 1/4 etc). With the variety of monitors in use - both in size and number having fixed screen sizes or windows seems to be to be going BACKWARDS.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8. #8


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Ditto to the getting ride of the fixed screen size. The 1/2, 1/4, full screen lock on Metro apps has to go. Make them adjustable like desktop program windows are now.
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  9. #9


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    The distinction between desktop and Metro is just going to blur more and more. Eventually you won't be able to tell by just looking if its a Desktop Program or Metro App. That's my take on it anyway. There won't be two sets of rules as to how a Window is sized, positioned and moved.

    Hi there.

    I've often posted - and I think others would like it too how re-sizeable BORDERLESS (and titleless) windows would be great - especially on a big screen -- you could have several of these updating in real time (rather like - but infinitely better) than the old GADGETS from VISTA.

    The only way to get borderless applications currently on the desktop is to run things like VLC media player in FULL SCREEN mode. Full screen mode should be an option of course - just hit ESC to shrink back into a conventional "Titled" window

    That way you could have a totally seamless operation between classical applications and Metro -- I'd certainly love some of my applications to be able to run in Borderless windows without having to run them in Full screen -- what about for example TWO concurrent Power point presentations projected to a Huge 80 inch screen at a Work meeting-. (You can of course run too instances or more now but I think the borderless presentations would make them clearer in a lot of cases).

    What I would draw the line at is in having these applications (or any applications) from being forced to run in fixed screen sizes like now (1/2, 1/4 etc). With the variety of monitors in use - both in size and number having fixed screen sizes or windows seems to be to be going BACKWARDS.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Click image for larger version
    Now we're thinking!

    If there is to be forward movement in the one modern UI approach, things need to change drastically. There cannot be a legacy UI and a newer UI in one OS, it's counterproductive to be switching around UIs because one UI controls aspects of the OS and the other UI does other things within the OS.

    Ditch the overlapping window management system, keep the Win32 coding APIs and language for Win32 applications and create some kind of sandboxing of some kind to prevent programs from diving TOO deep into the OS as well as making it more compatible with WinRT controls (like IE, OneDrive, and PC Settings), keep WinRT programming for apps that are better suited for such. Theoretically, a merging of the two can be done to make one complete and comprehensive programming potential.

    That, and add new things to the Start Screen like Start lists or collapsible Start groups, now we're cooking with fire!
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  10. #10


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    No desktop? No multiple, infinitely-resizeable windows? No cloud-independence?

    Sorry. No interest.


    Wenda.
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Windows is not the desktop and why Windows RT isn't dead
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