Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8.1 Update 2 Confirmed

  1. #61


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Winuser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMasterFX View Post

    That would be a huge mess. The average user will look at the store shelf and be like "WTF?" lol It's simple for them to implement. All of these options should be given to the user at the Windows Setup screen when they finish installing Windows on their computer. Windows should automatically detect if the computer is a desktop, a non touch screen laptop, a hybrid or a tablet and configure the appropriate settings. Or give the consumer a custom option as well that they can change at anytime through Control Panel. Why is this not implemented, I don't know lol.
    The average user is going to buy whatever operating system comes preloaded on the device.
    ++ If I was to ask one of the people I meet at our dog park what OS was on their PC, 9 out or 10 of them would just say "Windows". If then asked them what version their eye's would glaze over, or I'd get that deer in the head lights look. These are just your average non tech types that do Facebook and e-mail. All they know is its Windows. If they were to go and buy a new device they are more concerned with how much it costs etc than what version of Windows is on it. They don't know the difference anyway. Up until Windows 8.0 its all pretty much been the same for them, I click this to get this. They don't usually have their WTF moment until they get it home and turn it on for the first time. That's when I get the phone call, or the, you know about computers don't you, when I bump into them.
    Of course they know it's Windows, it pokes them in the eye every time they turn computer on.

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  2. #62


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by aph View Post
    SoftPedia as a news source and "Start Menu coming back" as the headline didn't tip you off? I doubt there is a better example of a fake story
    This site is like the tabloid of tech news. Mushy stories and high-end ads. Press on the author’s “Tweet” at the end to see what you get.

    Attachment 43453

    Really?!! Let’s get serious. And I dare not open this site on my phone for when I attempt to scroll with a touch screen something opens or pops up!
    Click image for larger version

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  3. #63


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    ...That's the whole idea of the new system > Instant personal info upon boot or wake...
    I've heard this theme before. The idea. Ok, that's the plan.
    ... disagree with the concept of a proper start screen. Some of us don't logon with a Microsoft Account, don't have Windows Phones or tablets, don't need synchronization, have turned off personal stuff, turned off Bing, turned off sending info to Microsoft.

    Some of us don't use the Mail App, don't need live tiles for the Weather or News etc...
    Who said we must have tile groups?

    The metro UI can be used any way we like to use it or not at all.
    I use it differently than others and like it that way.
    Frankly, I get annoyed (an example) with 70 tiles.
    There is no such thing as a proper start screen.

    As far as menus go, I don't hate them, or dislike them,
    I just prefer something not bolted to a corner or fixed to the taskbar.

    Click image for larger version
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  4. #64


    Quote Originally Posted by mick823 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snerd View Post
    I was okay with the start screen and tiles. For awhile. Then just for something to do I tried out the different start button apps. I finally wound up paying $3 bucks for StartIsBack, just personal preference and it looked best to me.
    I have tried them all and StartIsBack is the best of the bunch IMO. It is the only one of the 3rd party start menu apps that looks and functions like it is native to the operating system. All of the rest of them look and work like add on software. The colors don't quite match.......the text is slightly different.....extra features, etc. I have it on 3 machines and it is the best $8 I ever spent.
    I disagree it should be default, the reason is for the non techy users. I prefer Classic Shell for all the option and setting that I have control over, so even if MS put the default start menu back in I'll continue using CS. Funny thing is if MS hadn't taken the Start Button away I probably would never have tried any aftermarket Start buttons at all.
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  5. #65


    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by aph View Post
    SoftPedia as a news source and "Start Menu coming back" as the headline didn't tip you off? I doubt there is a better example of a fake story
    This site is like the tabloid of tech news. Mushy stories and high-end ads. Press on the author’s “Tweet” at the end to see what you get.

    Attachment 43453

    Really?!! Let’s get serious. And I dare not open this site on my phone for when I attempt to scroll with a touch screen something opens or pops up!
    Click image for larger version

    Wow, Vlad! There is a striking resemblance isn't there? Nah...it can't be!

    Actually I like Bogdan. I think he's a excellent writer. Too good for that site IMO. He's pro MS whereas the site is anti MS or so it seems that way to me. Of course that's healthy to get negative feedback in it's own sense. On the other hand sites like that make money off of OS companies with all the downloads they offer, but when MS OSs do go walled gardened they're going to be SOL at least on some of their business. Perhaps they should get into app development while they still can?
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  6. #66


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    The big hurdle will be to get companies and devs to write everything in the Modern/Metro. As soon as MS gets finished writing Office in it I think the Desktop app will not be included in 9. It will be an all walled-garden OS.
    That's true on the App side,, but I seriously doubt they are going to remove the desktop completely from Win9.
    I can tell you, if that is true, I will buy one Copy to check it out, but Win8 will be my last Windows OS.
    I know for a fact I am not alone on that. and Many companies would not upgrade for a very long while as they will have to re-code everything. They aren't going to invest that kind of resources this quickly.
    It would be another 10 years.

    No, Azure is moving forward, but companies as a whole are not ready and a lot of them aren't going to fork out the cash for the resources till it makes complete financial sense to do so.

    I would say, that anyone in IT should get ready for the Business Class Cloud though.
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  7. #67


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Because it was mentioned previously, I will add on to what I had stated earlier. This goes to reloading a PC.

    I got an SSD drive for my Laptop
    Replaced it, installed Win8.1 in less than 10min
    Ran all the updates, this took a little while, along with Update1.
    There are no current or hidden updates, so every update to date is installed.

    When I logged in using my LiveID I was prompted for which PC I wanted to restore my settings from.
    It showed my 3 different PC's that I use regularly.
    I chose the one I wanted, which was the same one I replaced the Drive in (for this laptop)
    It restored all my settings, theme colors, setup all of my email boxes, contacts, calendar, and placed the App icons on my Start Screen just as they were
    I simply had to click the little down arrow to grab them all again.

    As for Side Loaded Apps, this could, but generally should not create any kind of an issue.
    Most of them should be able to be pushed out, or part of a general image.
    Things are so automated now, that pushing a couple of buttons should be all that is needed.

    So yes, things are simpler to get setup completely.

    Total time with installing everything and reconfiguring was maybe an hour and a half at most.
    And all that time was taken my running Updates, sitting around and waiting, where I was able to do other things on my Tablet.

    Generally speaking, in a corporate or small business environment, if things are setup properly
    It could take about a half hour max to reload a system. And my bet is, it could be gotten down to around 15-20 min.
    The only thing that might be left at that point is restoring files (doc's, pst's etc.)
    which on modern systems and depending on amount of data, could go really quick.

    So, let's stop with the FUD, let's get to know what these systems are capable of, and enjoy the fact that we
    can do what we can do in this day and age.

    you know, people complain about the potential for a closed Windows System, but that would be dumb on their part as Google and Apple have that going on right now.

    I seriously doubt Windows will fully go the way of Chromebook, which I think some are starting to believe that will be the case.
    They might get closer to the Apple model, but I still think that would be a mistake on MS part, and I really don't think they are going to take Desktop and Laptops in that direction. (as in, getting rid of the desktop completely across all Windows Environments), I just do not see that happening.
    I could be wrong, but, I doubt it.

    We shall see......

    BTW, my laptop used to take about 2min to restart,, it's less than 10seconds now.
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  8. #68


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    ...That's the whole idea of the new system > Instant personal info upon boot or wake...
    I've heard this theme before. The idea. Ok, that's the plan.
    ... disagree with the concept of a proper start screen. Some of us don't logon with a Microsoft Account, don't have Windows Phones or tablets, don't need synchronization, have turned off personal stuff, turned off Bing, turned off sending info to Microsoft.

    Some of us don't use the Mail App, don't need live tiles for the Weather or News etc...
    Who said we must have tile groups?

    The metro UI can be used any way we like to use it or not at all.
    I use it differently than others and like it that way.
    Frankly, I get annoyed (an example) with 70 tiles.
    There is no such thing as a proper start screen.

    As far as menus go, I don't hate them, or dislike them,
    I just prefer something not bolted to a corner or fixed to the taskbar.
    Ok. The debate goes on. We’ve heard/read it all here the past few years. The fact remains here that some of us see the potential of the "new idea" whereas some do not and would prefer to the “old idea”. To each their own of course. Make it what you will and use it however you want. We all find our own way. After all, that is the crux of freedom.

    However, as all items are engineered for a specific task, whether it be an OS, a workshop tool, a kitchen appliance, an 18-wheeler, or what have you. Personally I see no sense in not using something to its fullest potential. It would be like using pliers as a hammer. The engineer/designer of pliers never intended it to be used as a hammer unless he/she placed a hammer head on it also. Then it would have a dual purpose used for its fullest potential. Consider 8.x to be no longer just an OS, but a multi-tasking tool. Store apps no matter who devs them designed to work in conjunction with one another closely meshed with the kernel and UI to work across multiple devices to conveniently sync across all devices. All enclosed in a walled garden safe and more secure than the old “idea”. Welcome to the new computing world of devices and services. That's where the market has been heading for quite some time now. This is MS’s answer to that market trend.

    So therefore, make it what you want. You’ll pound the nail in with the pliers eventually. I’ll use the one with the hammer head on it.

    BTW, when 8.x boots up it’s in the Modern/Metro UI even if you boot to the Desktop app, for it’s just that > An app > A portal of the UI to run legacy apps. You ought to know that.
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  9. #69


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    The big hurdle will be to get companies and devs to write everything in the Modern/Metro. As soon as MS gets finished writing Office in it I think the Desktop app will not be included in 9. It will be an all walled-garden OS.
    That's true on the App side,, but I seriously doubt they are going to remove the desktop completely from Win9.
    I can tell you, if that is true, I will buy one Copy to check it out, but Win8 will be my last Windows OS.
    I know for a fact I am not alone on that. and Many companies would not upgrade for a very long while as they will have to re-code everything. They aren't going to invest that kind of resources this quickly.
    It would be another 10 years.

    No, Azure is moving forward, but companies as a whole are not ready and a lot of them aren't going to fork out the cash for the resources till it makes complete financial sense to do so.

    I would say, that anyone in IT should get ready for the Business Class Cloud though.
    First and foremost through all of this > Not only has MS changed in restructuring and market/product target, but they are diversifying as well with products and services. I realize that’s no big secret really.

    You brought up three important words > complete financial sense. MS is in no way ignorant to this. I think you are correct in forecasting the Business Class Cloud OS, but should add as a subscription model as well. This will be true for a native OS also if a business, government, schools, other organizations, etc. choose that. Here's where size does matter. They'll cut businesses, etc, deals that they really can't refuse and have the support behind them to do so.

    So much talk around here lately on open source as an alternative. That's ok so far as free, but what about support? You'd better have a very good in-house professional IT support team to do so, which comes at a high cost, otherwise there's going to be a lot of down time. It isn't the price of the software product that's the biggest cost of a project. No, it's the support. And to add it's not so much when hardware or software falters or breaks, but rather when software has to change to fit any changed circumstances of a business, etc.

    Now it's time to mention the other two tech giants > Apple and Google. What do they have to offer? Well, Apple makes more profit on hardware than anything else. That seems to be their specialty. Can businesses afford those kinds of prices? Might as well sell jewelry also. Google makes tons of profit on advertising and data tracking. That's their specialty. Businesses need that so far as marketing, but that's about it. Don't forget the integration of Bing in Windows. So what's MS' specialty? Same as it's been all along and what made them the giant they are > Writing software > Cutting edge software > MS Office suite being their mainstay.

    That's where the walled-garden (more secure) side-loading custom-tailored apps fit in. I think this will be the most appealing to business, government, schools, and other organizations. That doesn't fit your business, government, or organization model any longer? Then it can be custom tailored for you. If I was a dev, I'd be jumping all over this. Endless possibilities with it. That's the real reason why MS is pushing it so much. Everyone seems to think apps will be developed for consumption use only such as we see with other company stores. They are rewriting Office presently. OneNote in Modern/Metro is offered via the Store already > free for now. CAD, Picture editing, Readers, or any other productive software company had better jump on the bandwagon otherwise they’ll be left out. MS will write it to sell in their store.

    Allow me to add here that we're a little over the horizon on BYO, which is appealing to businesses and would fit in the MS cloud OS subscription model better. Let me tell you what happened in the construction industry after the housing crash. Want to work? Then BYO tools for we're cutting that expense. Didn't think it was fair to a working stiff, but just saying that's what happened. It seems expenses get cut to the lowest common denominator.

    We'll have to watch the charts but I feel those companies coming off of XP don't move to 8.1 straightaway would be ignorant IMO. The desktop there to optionally boot to will exist until 1/10/23. That's roughly 9-1/2 years. 7 will be supported until 1/14/20. That's roughly 5-1/2 years. So, therefore, I think the Desktop app won't be included in 9.

    Windows lifecycle fact sheet - Microsoft Windows Help

    Bottom line in all this? Go ahead and move onto something else. Let me know how it goes. I myself saw the potential in 8.x not too long after installing and using it. Jumped on the bandwagon and bought a Lumia just before the first of the year. Sure simplified my computing life to ease up time to do other things.
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  10. #70


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    ... Personally I see no sense in not using something to its fullest potential. ... BTW, when 8.x boots up it’s in the Modern/Metro UI even if you boot to the Desktop app, for it’s just that > An app > A portal of the UI to run legacy apps. You ought to know that.
    I like this. As you say, the debate goes on. I can see great potential as you and others describe the new vision.
    The opposition comes from an implied apparent mandate (by some)
    that we all comply with everything Microsoft wants.

    I guess we should all go out and buy a Windows Phone, a Surface, Office 365, other subscriptions, use Hotmail, use Bing, send personal info and settings to MS, and also send our browsing history to Microsoft?

    Also, the desktop, a.k.a. explorer.exe is fundamentally connected (in Windows 8) to the metro UI and WinRT via windows kernel integration, so there can be no disconnection without a rewrite of Windows NT.

    Desktop app, for it’s just that > An app > A portal of the UI to run legacy apps
    Need to add this: If you think it is just a portal of the UI to run legacy apps,
    as described previously, see what happens to your running WinRT metro apps,
    if you terminate (end task) Windows Explorer in the Task Manager. (close / suspend the desktop)

    Ok?

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by mdmd; 19 May 2014 at 00:20.
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