Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft's new Windows cadence: Once a year is not enough

  1. #31


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there

    Seems now that while Linux is heading for LTS releases (Long Term support) or at least the major releases / distros Windows is going in the OPPOSITE direction.

    Enterprises need STABLE environments -- it's not usually necessary for them to support the latest and greatest devices as soon as they appear.

    Hobbyists / home users can tinker around with systems at will - but businesses can't -- and it's not just the Windows system itself. There's often a lot of very large and important Back end software that Windows needs to connect to --this type of software also isn't updated all that frequently - and when it is it's often a two / three year incredibly expensive project or in some cases an even longer one to perform the upgrade.

    Ms definitely needs to sort out Enterprise and Consumer OS'es - the two are diverging ever more and perhaps it's time to launch a totally Enterprise version of Windows which changes fairly rarely together with a consumer version which can get updates at any time during its life cycle.

    My only problem with this approach though is that the consumer version might be dumbed down too much -- it always amazed me for example with the "Home Premium" versions of Windows 7 for example you couldn't add other Languages - especially when Windows is sold world wide but not available in every possible language. Adding the language packs was an excellent solution - but it was restricted to Professional and Ultimate editions -- why on earth ???

    People at the top of Ms need to get their collective heads or asses around this problem and really decide WHAT THEY WANT TO DO instead of giving us a cackhanded mess that pleases nobody.

    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #32


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    Quote Originally Posted by HOODY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HOODY View Post

    Not starting out scratch, for one thing I make at least 4 image backups of my C partition using 4 seperate programs just to be on the safe side, besides, when you upgrade using the burned installer from a ISO, you don't loose a thing, you just choose to keep all programs and settings and keep rockin. The same way it was installing 8.0 over my OEM HP W7 is the same as it was installing 8.1 with update 1 over my installed 8.1, never skipped a beat after it was done.

    So Any and ALL updates should also be available in an ISO format which would be the last OS incl the latest update.. Cause re installing from my 8.1 install DVD wouldn't have installed the update 1 the way that leaked ISO did that came with update 1, although it was 17031, but updated with no problem to 17041 once it was on.

    That's what I mean about making the ISO "with" latest update available to ALL when its released, not just the usual suspects. Anyway we'll see how it goes the 2nd time around, maybe the damned "update" installs this time.
    I hear ya. You know what your doing and how to minimize the impact of the frequent updates. My comment, even though it was in response to yours, was more aimed at the average Joe. The non tech savvy will end up doing it the long way. I agree, and I've said it before, the official Microsoft ISO's shouldn't be so hard for the average Joe to get their hands on. I have no idea why they restrict their downloads the way they do. They get leaked to other sites anyway, but unfortunately a lot of them get modified in a bad way. If they gave everybody access to the clean official ISO's that wouldn't happen. The ones that pirate Windows are going to get them anyway.

    I've never bothered with imaging. I have nothing against doing it, its just not something I do. I can do a clean install pretty easily and pretty quick these days anyway.
    Yeah I hear ya too homes, and fully go along with the

    " the official Microsoft ISO's shouldn't be so hard for the average Joe to get their hands on."

    Like you said it would make things a lot easier, and they end up passed around as it is anyway once the MSDC and tecnet crew gets their hands on them.

    As for being modified, you can pretty much figure that out as soon as you burn the thing, the one I got was clean and the same as on MSDC, so I think that's who uploaded it anyway.

    Besides you can only install these things using a "public" key, which installs the OS as a "trial", a retail key won't run the installer, you still need a good retail key to activate the thing properly, so its no problem to MS as it is, they actually don't care one way or another, and count each install as another "purchase" lol. did I mention MSDC and tecnet, smirks.....
    Yeah, you still need a key to activate so what's the big deal about letting people download it. By the way its MSDN, not MSDC, and TechNet. TechNet is discontinued so when everybody's subscription runs out that's it for that. If you have a valid 8.1 Retail key you can install without having to use the public key and the change key. I use my MSDN keys and bypass all that. It activates online right away too. If all you have is an 8.0 key you have no choice though. Like you say It won't install with that key. My TechNet and MSDN keys are listed as Retail and they likely do count them as license's sold.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Yeah, you still need a key to activate so what's the big deal about letting people download it.
    Couldn't agree with you all more. I simply don't understand this change MS has made. It's like guns. Make all the laws and regulations they want and crooks or the deranged will continue to get guns simply by stealing them.

    If anything, I think this promotes piracy. Crooks are like children. Deny them something without valid reason and they will find a way to get it anyway all the more conniving.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #34


    Hafnarfjörđur IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Yeah, you still need a key to activate so what's the big deal about letting people download it.
    Couldn't agree with you all more. I simply don't understand this change MS has made. It's like guns. Make all the laws and regulations they want and crooks or the deranged will continue to get guns simply by stealing them.

    If anything, I think this promotes piracy. Crooks are like children. Deny them something without valid reason and they will find a way to get it anyway all the more conniving.
    Hi there

    Totally correct -- I've noticed a lot more Win 8.1 Iso's appearing on the "Usual" torrent sites lately.

    Same with the ridiculous DRM for DVD's and E-books -- and as for that regionalisation nonsense for DVD's -- that was so stupid especially for people who travelled a lot with laptops -- no wonder the torrent sites were full of "De-Drmm'ers" and things.

    Allow people to acquire content at a sensible price and use without restriction -- you'd be surprised at how many people would actually BUY the content rather than pirating it.

    I have used torrents myself to view things like US shows that are never likely to be shown in our area - however IF these were made available to BUY / DOWNLOAD then I'd be quite happy to PAY - so would a lot of other people.

    I used to think that it was bad when you no longer got the OS disks when you bought a computer -- a few years ago you used to get a set of discs as well !!! --now it's even WORSE if you can't get an ISO either -- so you spend time de-bloating your computer by removing all the pre-installed ad / crap / trialware on it - and your update fails -- so back to square -Z. !! you have to remove all the junk again !!!

    I can't understand the mentality of some of the people at the top of these corporations --sometimes the sensible solution is SO OBVIOUS I have to assume a conspiracy theory -- other "dARK fORCES" AT WORK.

    Maybe the WANT us to use torrents so they can justify the huge expenditure on "Law and Order", expensive Courts, Lawyers and Prison places.

    Even in Iceland Politicians seem to get more respect when they start preaching real tough Law and Order stuff that certain Continental European Politicians from the late 1930's might feel at home with.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #35


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
    AFAIK, MS does not plan direct integration between devices, such as desktop and Windows phone. For the last two years, they have not budged when it comes to sync between the desktop and phone. Or more accurately, between the desktop and phone calendars, contacts, etc.
    Hi guys. Apps do indeed sync across all/any device one uses as long as one signs into the devices with an MS account.
    Hi... The point was about syncing Outlook calendar, contacts, etc., for a non MS account on the desktop directly to a Windows 8 phone. MS does not provide that, but third-party apps can.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    There is indeed a version of Office on WP8 which comes included on the phone. I'm not going to say it's free, for it's absorbed in the price of the phone. One can sync/store files via OneDrive or other cloud service. OneNote also.
    What if someone does not totally buy into the MS eco-system and just like their devices and software? Why does MS, for all practical purposes, block synchronization between their devices and software? Why does MS want to herd the person into the cloud?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #36


    Quote Originally Posted by Cr00zng View Post
    Hi... The point was about syncing Outlook calendar, contacts, etc., for a non MS account on the desktop directly to a Windows 8 phone. MS does not provide that, but third-party apps can.
    I think all this can be answered with two words > malware and encryption. Any data uploaded to MS servers is scanned for virus so as not to corrupt an entire server or multiple servers, which as you know, holds a lot of precious public personal data of which they are responsible for. Secondly, encryption so if hacked into the data has less chance to be deciphered. One can pay for 3rd party software to do so, but how safe is it? That is not to say it is not, but one must look into it. The Modern/Metro walled garden system is actually their biggest goal. A much safer system.

    What if someone does not totally buy into the MS eco-system and just like their devices and software? Why does MS, for all practical purposes, block synchronization between their devices and software? Why does MS want to herd the person into the cloud?
    The same reason Apple, Google, and others are > for profit. MS is a company just like all the rest in that they seek profit. All the rest are seeking to “herd” us into their cloud for profit. Why should MS be any different? They are not a non-for-profit organization. Agreeably MS has changed these past few years with their restructuring. No more freebies such as Media Center. Perhaps down the road we’ll be paying for Paint, Notepad, and anything else that comes with their OSs.

    Apple makes huge profits on their hardware. That’s their mainstay. That’s why their products are so expensive. Just read an article this morning on them. Why Apple has stopped growing ? Quartz. Besides Xbox and peripherals MS is basically getting into the hardware business with the Surfaces and now buying Nokia. The Surface department is probably losing money I would guess. Nokia remains to be seen. Both are difficult to get that up and running as with any business, so no big profits for MS there. At least for a while anyway.

    Google makes huge profit off of advertising. That’s their mainstay. It’s been around for quite a while making huge profits for Google. Bing in retrospect is just getting off the ground.

    MS’s mainstay is software mainly with OSs, both PC and server, and Office. That market has flat lined, so therefore the “reimagining” or the restructuring of MS to stay alive. Products and services is their new goal.
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 24 Apr 2014 at 04:05.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #37


    VA USA
    Posts : 349
    W8.1up1 Pro x64 w/media center


    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HOODY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alphanumeric View Post

    I hear ya. You know what your doing and how to minimize the impact of the frequent updates. My comment, even though it was in response to yours, was more aimed at the average Joe. The non tech savvy will end up doing it the long way. I agree, and I've said it before, the official Microsoft ISO's shouldn't be so hard for the average Joe to get their hands on. I have no idea why they restrict their downloads the way they do. They get leaked to other sites anyway, but unfortunately a lot of them get modified in a bad way. If they gave everybody access to the clean official ISO's that wouldn't happen. The ones that pirate Windows are going to get them anyway.

    I've never bothered with imaging. I have nothing against doing it, its just not something I do. I can do a clean install pretty easily and pretty quick these days anyway.
    Yeah I hear ya too homes, and fully go along with the

    " the official Microsoft ISO's shouldn't be so hard for the average Joe to get their hands on."

    Like you said it would make things a lot easier, and they end up passed around as it is anyway once the MSDC and tecnet crew gets their hands on them.

    As for being modified, you can pretty much figure that out as soon as you burn the thing, the one I got was clean and the same as on MSDC, so I think that's who uploaded it anyway.

    Besides you can only install these things using a "public" key, which installs the OS as a "trial", a retail key won't run the installer, you still need a good retail key to activate the thing properly, so its no problem to MS as it is, they actually don't care one way or another, and count each install as another "purchase" lol. did I mention MSDC and tecnet, smirks.....
    Yeah, you still need a key to activate so what's the big deal about letting people download it. By the way its MSDN, not MSDC, and TechNet. TechNet is discontinued so when everybody's subscription runs out that's it for that. If you have a valid 8.1 Retail key you can install without having to use the public key and the change key. I use my MSDN keys and bypass all that. It activates online right away too. If all you have is an 8.0 key you have no choice though. Like you say It won't install with that key. My TechNet and MSDN keys are listed as Retail and they likely do count them as license's sold.
    Shrug, MSDN MSDC same thing lol, I think I seen that MSDC somewhere as meaning Microsoft Download Center, hy what do I know, smirks..... so I just used it as that, I assume it meant the same as MSDN and yeah the retail key I have is from the W8 version for W8Pro, it wouldn't work to run the DVD installer for w8.1up1, only after installed with a public install key could i activate it with my W8 Pro retail key, but hell that was better than what I was runnin into with that silly azz update.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #38


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Microsoft's new Windows cadence: Once a year is not enough
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