Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Desktop will stay - MS OS chief Myerson

  1. #31


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there.

    The limitations of the "Tile based" Os become absolutely OBVIOUS - even on a smart phone.

    I've had my Samsung S5 just for about a WEEK now -- the larger screen (5.25 ins - just about the largest that IMO is useable for a mobile phone before it becomes a REDICULOUS "Phablet") is absolutely a worthwhile upgrade even if just for that larger screen feature (even upgrading from an S4 - no mean slouch itself) but scrolling over 4 or 5 screens full of tiles is really an irritating experience in the extreme -- anything more than about 20 - 30 tiles and I file the whole thing almost unuseable - endlessly swiping screens to find the app you want -- and it's not really easy to arrange these decently either -- especially as all those ANNOYING WIDGETS get in the way too -- Windows phones may have an advantage there.

    To suggest that this type of Interface is useable in any sensible manner on a "WORKHORSE DESKTOP / LAPTOP SYSTEM" used for office based work is just so totally bovine that it doesn't even bear thinking about any more.

    By all means incorporate parts of a mobile OS if people want to have some sort if unity between their mobile devices and desktops - but that should be an ADDON or extra configuration option like it is in the latest Windows 8.1 update 1 (boot to desktop is now the DEFAULT mode).

    Ms would have kept complaints down to a minimum -- and while I can also live without the menu screen it's obvious for all sorts of reasons that removing it was a totally bad move on Ms's part.

    If a start menu IS brought back then some of the screenshots posted above look fine -- although I'd still like to be able to mimmize the menu (rather like the Old XP menu with the small icons) and how a lot of Linux distros do it - where you get the choice of switching between the menu styles.

    (Examples shown below from Linux Mint KDE 16 - application view and "classical" view) - The backgrounds / designs etc are quite configurable --Windows Please note !!!!).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails snapshot7.png   snapshot8.png  

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  2. #32


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    i do agree to an extent when it comes,to the start screen
    my wife is guilty of an ever scrolling start screen on her Surface Pro, but she likes it that way.

    I want to see live tiles on the right side of the start menu cause I found almost no use for all the links there in 7
    At least it would make that space more usable, but for others turn it off. no harm done.

    there are so many options for these things possible, it's a shame to not make them all available to those who want them.

    Gadgetized desktop interactive tiles for many reasons,, stock tickers, news feeds, server/system alerts for admins
    the list is endless and would be freaking awesome.
    Security cameras, or whatever you might be interested in.


    live tiles (interactive) available off start button and then everything grouped off start screen

    MS has a world of opportunity here to make windows appeal to absolutely everyone.

    And this, no other system could top with out major shift/development changes, that I highly doubt they are anywhere close to gearing up for.

    Internet of Everything devices should make this possible, probable, and MS would miss a golden opportunity to pass on this concept.

    With that said, I doubt it will matter, someone/many will find fault regardless.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #33


    If it would only automatically (or sort of) that elusive Start Menu sort programs by function with sub-menus like on that picture it might be even usable and even better than on W7. Once I got past couple of hundred programs installed in Win7, it was a pain to find a program thru it. Of course, it could be customized, with links in sub menus but it was a too much work and had to be done every time you install or uninstall a program. On the Modern UI Start page it is done much easier, so I'm using that option even without any Modern Apps installed and only couple of Live Tiles. Only thing I'm missing is vertical instead of horizontal scrolling.
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  4. #34


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by CountMike View Post
    If it would only automatically (or sort of) that elusive Start Menu sort programs by function with sub-menus like on that picture it might be even usable and even better than on W7. Once I got past couple of hundred programs installed in Win7, it was a pain to find a program thru it. Of course, it could be customized, with links in sub menus but it was a too much work and had to be done every time you install or uninstall a program. On the Modern UI Start page it is done much easier, so I'm using that option even without any Modern Apps installed and only couple of Live Tiles. Only thing I'm missing is vertical instead of horizontal scrolling.
    Hi there
    with customized toolbars you can create a little file and then re-load it every time you update a system --it's easy --I think I had a couple of posts on doing that a while ago.

    Creating Usable Pgm toolbar WITH sub menus

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #35


    Maybe this belongs to customizing section since we are talking here abut this stuff, here's my desktop now. What I would like to se or be able to do is to make those folders on the top in the rectangle to open on mouse over and reveal stuff in them as a menu instead of having to click on them.
    Click image for larger version
    so it would end up as something like this but maybe with nicer background on that window..
    Click image for larger version
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #36


    The start screen is not totaly ridiculous, but it's not a start menu in the sens that it doesn't have the function of listing all your programs and sort them in drop-down sublists.
    The start screen is basicaly another desktop. I like the idea of a multi page desktop on the start screen, and the presence of the taskbar (W8.1) which make it much more usable.
    Yet it's uselessly redundant. The old desktop still offers more possibilities except for multipaging.


    Metro apps are totaly useless when you migrate from a previous version of Windows.


    Gadgetized desktop interactive tiles for many reasons,, stock tickers, news feeds, server/system alerts for admins
    the list is endless and would be freaking awesome.
    Security cameras, or whatever you might be interested in.

    I agree. I must be cool to get aglance of all the stuffs of interrest as soon as you turn on your computer.
    But why should it be "smartphone" oriented? Why smartphone apps? Why smartphone style? That's non-sens.


    Let's make a thing which can work on widows natively, not on a parrallel OS.


    Metro Apps are useless. The idea that some corporate or individuals want to have some unity in the apps they use is discutable because nobody is such a moron that they can't read or edit datas with different interfaces or softwares. If there is realy a need for this, let's write a windows version of the phone one. Not the other way round. I don't see any use to replicate your phone/tablet environement on a desktop/laptop pc save for actualy call somebody on the telephone from your PC.
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  7. #37


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Fredledingue View Post
    Metro Apps are useless. The idea that some corporate or individuals want to have some unity in the apps they use is discutable because nobody is such a moron that they can't read or edit datas with different interfaces or softwares. If there is realy a need for this, let's write a windows version of the phone one. Not the other way round. I don't see any use to replicate your phone/tablet environement on a desktop/laptop pc save for actualy call somebody on the telephone from your PC.
    This is where you completely miss the point of Universal apps.
    You write the Base code, and it is compatible across all devices.
    You write the GUI to fit the device.
    Most of the time, when you get the GUI right, the only thing that changes and get's tweaked is the base code.

    Now, imagine you have to fix it for several different platforms....
    Once for Phone, Once for PC, Once for xBox, maybe Once for Tablet?
    That is 4 times you have to do it, now imagine your code works perfectly on Phone, but doesn't on PC or xBox
    You get the code fixed for PC, and how long did that take?

    Now you have to fix it for xBox, how long? Were new bugs introduced? Possibly. but now you have
    to figure what happened to the code on the xBox App that works perfectly on Phone and PC, which you had to fix separately.

    Not to mention if you decide to support iPhone, iPad and Android, Chromebooks.

    With Windows, you fixed it ONCE and it works across all Windows devices. How long did that take?

    While you are messing around fixing your App for several different Platforms, others will be done and moving on.

    And Apps are not useless on PC. They have their place. But like on all eco-systems, trash apps exist.

    hopefully we will see some major changes in Win9 to accommodate
    a better flow and use of the system overall,, more integration with the desktop over all.
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  8. #38


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Fredledingue View Post
    The start screen is not totally ridiculous, but it's not a start menu in the sense that it doesn't have the function of listing all your programs and sort them in drop-down sublists.
    Hello. Welcome back. I offer this only.
    The start screen is not a start menu because it is not a start menu.
    It is a launcher like Rocket Dock or Object Dock
    and includes Live Tiles and tile notifications for those that need them.
    It allows for synchronization across devices if desired.

    Click image for larger version

    You're right, it is multipage and allows for unlimited pins unlike the desktop.

    The Windows 8 menu is in apps (rant !! )
    Sublists or nests are not necessarily needed.
    ... \AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
    ... \ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

    Click image for larger version

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by mdmd; 30 May 2014 at 23:01. Reason: adding (... \ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs)
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  9. #39


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    You got your peanut butter on my chocolate.
    You got your chocolate in my peanut butter.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #40


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Suggesting it's a point of view. ok.

    The Microsoft Vision is to have us all slavishly adopt everything.
    Does lock stepping and Lemmings ring any bells?

    A person could say this is a menu.

    Click image for larger version

    Just to be controversial,
    I disagree that it is a view.

    This is undeniable and points to the automatic organization in the Apps Screen.
    Also, these are where desktop menus get their lists.
    ... \AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
    ... \ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

    Is this a menu?

    Click image for larger version

    Or this?

    Click image for larger version

    Both are? ok. Giggles.
    Last edited by mdmd; 01 Jun 2014 at 15:32.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Desktop will stay - MS OS chief Myerson
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