Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Desktop will stay - MS OS chief Myerson

  1. #21


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there.

    Unifying code has been done simply for ages -- Look for example at SAP ABAP - Source Language which is a bit like a modernized mix of IBM's mainframe PL/1 - remember that) with some Cobol and OO thrown in. A few statements have also been added for handling relational databases and some simple SQL.

    The same ABAP SOURCE program will run on almost ANY SAP system - independent of whatever the underlying Host machine architecture is.

    The ABAP source converts to a unified "Meta machine language" if you like and then this will execute on the Host. The HOST converts the "Meta language" to executable code either by "Interpreting" it or as pre-compiled executable code. The speed of modern processors is perfectly fast enough to perform this process fast enough even for HUGE production systems.

    ABAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The advantage of the single "Meta code" is that the SOURCE can be developed on almost any platform and executed on any other.

    There's no reason why Windows and RT apps couldn't use the same methodology -- there's nothing wrong in using ARM type processors (unless your are an INTEL shareholder of course). This way Ms developed apps could also run on ANDROID phones too.

    (This is all OLD technology just being used in a modern way -- you say "Meta code" to people and they look at you as if it's something out of Science Fiction". --Arghh!! --the wonders of the modern education system -- but that unfortunately is another whole topic for another place !!).

    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #22


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    Doesn't matter, they both taste good.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #23


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    So, I watched the whole Build Day 1 Key Note video
    Time Line 2:10:10

    Official Announcement..... No date for when,, but is coming as a Free Windows 8.1 Update
    Yes, that is Native Windowed Apps, yes those are Tiles on the Start Menu
    Yes, this is official and not a concept.....

    Interactive Tiles are also coming......

    If you haven't seen it yet, or if it has already been posted,,,, Enjoy....

    Click image for larger version
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #24


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    For real power and overall consistency, we need full blown desktop apps that can take full advantage of a system.
    WinRT is not that environment.
    Today.

    It will eventually be that environment, but it will be a process. Win32 of today did not happen overnight. It took 20 years to get there. Win32 is considered mature, and new OS versions are not adding much in the way of Win32 functionality. All new functionality is focused on WinRT. Eventually, WinRT will match, and then surpass Win32 and at that time it will make sense for the Win32 to start being deprecated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    Yes, this is official and not a concept.....
    Actually, it is a concept. They've officially said that what was shown at Build is not going to be what they deliver.. the final will be something else, but it will probably have most of the concepts shown there.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #25


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    For real power and overall consistency, we need full blown desktop apps that can take full advantage of a system.
    WinRT is not that environment.
    Today.

    It will eventually be that environment, but it will be a process. Win32 of today did not happen overnight. It took 20 years to get there. Win32 is considered mature, and new OS versions are not adding much in the way of Win32 functionality. All new functionality is focused on WinRT. Eventually, WinRT will match, and then surpass Win32 and at that time it will make sense for the Win32 to start being deprecated.
    IF, we get WinRT, it will need to be far more robust and open than it is now.
    This is my primary beef with the WinRT environment,,,,

    WinRT apps can only be sideloaded from outside Windows Store on Windows 8 or RT systems that are part of a Windows domain, or equipped with a special activation key obtained from Microsoft
    That needs to be fleshed out and explained in deeper detail exactly what that means.
    It's telling me that not only do I have to purchase an off the shelf software, but if I want to run it on an RT Device
    I need to get special permission from MS to do so.
    Or essentially every piece of software will HAVE come through the App Store,, another bad idea.

    How difficult will that be to obtain?
    What requirements will be demanded?
    What issues will that create for transfer to another PC?
    What issues will that create if for some reason someone decides to blacklist that Key?

    There are far more ramifications surrounding WinRT on a Desktop/laptop/tablet than there are on xBox or WP.

    However, I probably need to learn a bit more about WinRT as a whole.
    Right now, it is perceived as a closed/restricted system based on the WinRT Arm devices and WP RT.

    I am hoping this will include Cross App Authentication and the open ability to install anything I want,
    not just what some higher up thinks I should be able to do or not do. that would not be good for anyone.
    That may be going to a certain extreme, but, this is my perception right now.

    One Code to rule them all is fine, as long as I as a user am not
    locked down in some managed environment I have no control over.
    no WP does not count. Most everything I have is on my phone, I want that as secure as possible.
    My desktop/laptop and tablet I will manage myself.
    There are certain restrictions that are acceptable, but WinRT's closed system is not as a total environment.

    I could be way off base, but it seems to me we could be looking at another iPad.

    I seriously doubt that is what Windows will turn into as a whole. That would just be stupid.
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  6. #26


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    It depends on the time frame. If one is always referring to what will be in the short term,
    in terms of the existence of Microsoft, the discussion of the explorer shell will always be very limited.
    If we don't EMP the grid, there may be a future.

    I think AI will take the place of the mouse and keyboard eventually.
    How we interact with machines will change.
    Personally, I won't be around for the demise of explorer or Microsoft but it will happen eventually.
    The Science behind Science Fiction might play a role in the future. Who cares about SAP ?
    Ever seen Red Dwarf ? Computer - (make coffee) (how you like it) ha

    These designs are interesting. I wonder if Windex will exist in 2414? Or 4414?

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by mdmd; 13 Apr 2014 at 23:59. Reason: added 2000 years
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  7. #27


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    It depends on the time frame. If one is always referring to what will be in the short term,
    in terms of the existence of Microsoft, the discussion of the explorer shell will always be very limited.
    If we don't EMP the grid, there may be a future.

    I think AI will take the place of the mouse and keyboard eventually.
    How we interact with machines will change.
    Personally, I won't be around for the demise of explorer or Microsoft but it will happen eventually.
    The Science behind Science Fiction might play a role in the future. Who cares about SAP ?
    Ever seen Red Dwarf ? Computer - (make coffee) (how you like it) ha

    These designs are interesting. I wonder if Windex will exist in 2414? Or 4414?

    Click image for larger version
    Hi there

    SAP is still BY FAR the biggest ERP system in the world -- pretty well ANY organisation slightly bigger than One man and his dog operating from "Under the Railway Arches" has direct or indirect with SAP software -- pretty well anything you buy has been sourced, ordered, packed, manufactured, assembled and delivered using SAP software. While the average person might not have ever heard of it -- it is of absolutely crucial importance in todays e-commerce, production, HR and almost any other area of business you can think of - and probably
    areas you can't as well.

    SAP's use of Metacode is how it runs on a huge variety of different hardware architectures and OS'es.

    Using SAP as an example I was suggesting Ms could easily unify Windows and Windows RT for the improvement of BOTH using the same philosophy.

    Cheers
    jimno
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #28


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    SAP's use of Metacode is how it runs on a huge variety of different hardware architectures and OS'es.

    Using SAP as an example I was suggesting Ms could easily unify Windows and Windows RT for the improvement of BOTH using the same philosophy.
    I think you mean byte code. Metacode is a technology used by Xerox for page definition...

    In any event, the irony here is that WinRT is based on a scaled down version of the .NET runtime, which is.. guess what? A byte code based virtual machine, similar to Java, ABAP, Pascal, and several other systems.

    Funny how the very thing you claim MS should be doing and will save them is the very thing they've been doing all along.
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  9. #29


    Posts : 902
    Win8.1 Pro, Desktop Mode


    Quote Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
    So, I watched the whole Build Day 1 Key Note video
    Time Line 2:10:10

    Official Announcement..... No date for when,, but is coming as a Free Windows 8.1 Update
    Yes, that is Native Windowed Apps, yes those are Tiles on the Start Menu
    Yes, this is official and not a concept.....

    Interactive Tiles are also coming......

    If you haven't seen it yet, or if it has already been posted,,,, Enjoy....

    Click image for larger version
    What's the term I'm looking for...??

    Oh yea.... flogging a dead horse.
    Talk about not getting it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #30


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    I posted this in another thread, but think it fits equally well here

    Actually, if the option is there, what is wrong with it?
    I actually like that Start Menu, I would surely use the Start button more often.

    What is the aversion to Tiles and Live Tiles, they are essentially Gadgets.
    Everyone was googoo for gadgets not too long ago.
    Everyone has Gadgets on their phones, (yes, I mean Apps, which many are just gadgets)

    seriously, it makes no sense.

    I think some people will go out of their way to bash on Win8, just for the sake of bashing on Win8.
    I think some people would be more satisfied if MS said, ok we give up, here's Win7, we are done.
    Closed up shop and ended it all.

    Now THAT would be something to see. holy cow would this planet be in a world of real hurt.
    Yeah, not over night, and yeah, Mac could swoop in and save us all, or maybe google, we all know Linux community couldn't do it
    they can't agree on a single thing, other than, if you are not using Linux, your not worth the time to speak to.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Desktop will stay - MS OS chief Myerson
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