Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Can the new Windows 8.1 bring back users?

  1. #41


    There seems to be great misunderstanding about what "Metro" apps and desktop applications are in Win8 and it's derivatives are supposed to be. The way I see it is that those are two separate things. Desktop is what always was and Metro apps are something that is supposed to bring new way of doing things and bring portable devices closer to users. MS made a mess of it thinking that as time goes by there would be much better base of Apps that can rival or overtake desktop programs.
    But.... it was not to be, Metro apps just do not have serious underpinning and base to build programs on. M$ is only now building a base (adding better support for .NET, Dx and other api underlay ) to build proper applications for Metro Apps. Ones that gets implemented, together with better support for multitasking and windows scaling, there is some chance that those apps will outgrow that "Funny smartphone image".
    I don't have a crystal ball to see the future and all I can do is to keep updating until they either get it right or whole thing goes bust. Right now it's pretty undefined and in the space of a year or so it should get much clearer.

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  2. #42


    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    Yeah I tend to get into rants about Ate because I take it personally that so little self-respect would be given to the real accomplishment of Windows 7, and can begin sounding like a fanboy even though I really do think it is one of the greatest achievements in tech and is what got me involved. So I wanted to take more time to write this.

    I mainly wanted to make the point that Seven being the best OS ever is not a matter of opinion since it is by far the best selling OS ever - even with sales being artifically suppressed now - and wildly popular with consumers who have almost no complaints.

    By comparison most consumers will never even hear the name Linux and only a tiny fraction use an iOS.

    In spite of rumors of its demise, the desktop is where the productive work which drives the world economy is done and is perfected in Windows Seven. However by depriving consumers of the best OS on new desktops, a real attempt has been made to kill it off - intended or not.

    We know that this was done in service to a new business plan that monetizes apps and eventually the OS by subscription, which required an attempt to throw away the desktop and adapt an Ipad social media buttons interface. Now that this is seen by all to be a failure, how about doubling down now instead on what already we know is a smashing success?

    Just giving a fair and even choice will right the ship and point the way for Windows 9.
    I see you are passionate in your belief as well as your knowledge. That is a good character trait. Sometimes it’s difficult to convey such things without emotions. I didn’t see your original post as a rant as much as I did conveying your passion.

    We all have an opinion and I certainly have mine, but opinions are like anuses > Everyone has one.

    No doubt that 7 as a desktop OS is a great OS. I used the Pro edition extensively along with the Office 2000 Pro suite running a business. It served me very well. However, since upgrading to 8.1 along with Office 2013 Pro and learning the system and included Store apps quite well and continuing to learn it, I dare say that this system is faster at accomplishing tasks with its approach of features. Not all useful things need be done on the Desktop app/portal. The Modern/Metro interface has some very nice features. Therefore, I consider 7 to be outdated, not that it isn’t a great OS. In with the new > Out with the old. We do that a lot in life with a lot of things. We modernize.

    No doubt that since XP servicing ends most businesses will be migrating to 7. They always seem to migrate to the “proven” system, which is usually preceding the latest release of which in reality being 8.1. We must needs omit 8 since MS themselves pretty much admitted by the quick release of 8.1 that it was a big mistake. That’s why the Sinofski affair. All in all MS will continue to keep customers and continue to profit. I call 7 MS’s ace in the hole.

    I think we can expect MS to continue on their new business plan of modernizing 8.1 even more with 9. From what I’ve been reading, MS is writing the Office suite in the Modern/Metro language, which will be the first major group of Modern/Metro productivity apps. When this happens, which from what I gather will be soon, 9 will not contain the Desktop app as we see in 8/8.1. A lot of other productive Win32 programs will follow.

    Not to worry, for the desktop UI will survive in 7 until 1/14/2020 and the Desktop app/portal in 8/8.1 until 1/10/2023. That’s at most approximately 9.5 years. Windows lifecycle fact sheet - Microsoft Windows Help Plenty of time for probably one of the biggest transitions in computer history since Windows 3.1 to Windows 95.

    I think any MS OS will always be native and never subscription. MS has the right to monetize apps just as Apple, Google, and others do. It’s business.
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  3. #43


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there.

    It's "Horses for Courses". W7 was a great selling OS - But: remember it didn't have to compete with tablets or smart phones.

    W8 was made too "Tablety" by far as is obvious from comments on these Forums and elsewhere. W8.1 was "kludged" to attempt to repair the damage -- a half way decent job has been done but once a product gets a bad name then it sticks --- look at the much maligned Vista -- if you run it on decent hardware it doesn't work too bad and has for a lot of people an appealing look -- AERO whatever its resource consumption was (AND IS) a quite liked feature.

    The modern Plasma effects on most Linux desktops show that its perfectly possible to have nice effects AND performance - the user should be able to select those things. If they choose a whole load of options that drag their system to a halt - that' s the USERS problem.

    As for the menu system -- it DOESN'T MATTER if it's good bad or indifferent -- if you are flogging a product to millions of customers who happen to LIKE a certain feature it makes NO BUSINESS SENSE whatsoever to remove it suddenly -- By all means introduce new ways of working - BUT allow people to grow used to it over time so give a choice but warn people that the feature might not be available in the future..

    Metro / full screen working has been shown to be totally flawed for any sort of CREATIVE CONTENT or typical office type working. Trying to base your OS primarily on small mobile devices is also not a good idea -- in any case the "Tablet craze" will have died away in a few years -- for proper work it's almost impossible to replace a real computer TOTALLY with mobile devices.

    W8.1 is a bit of "Mea culpa" on Ms's part -- We'll see what they have in store for us for W9 - or even W8.1 Updsate part 2 later on in the year.

    Finally :

    I worry about a new full screen Metro only Office app -- try these SIMPLE tasks working in full screen only

    1) translate a document into TWO Different languages from the original.
    2) copy data from two spreadsheet worksheets into a power point presentation
    3) compare say flight / hotel prices from 5 or 6 websites.

    I think having concurrent Windows open makes these tasks reasonably easy.

    "I rest my case M'Lud".

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  4. #44


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there.

    It's "Horses for Courses". W7 was a great selling OS - But: remember it didn't have to compete with tablets or smart phones. W8 was made too "Tablety" by far as it's obvious from comments on these Forums and elsewhere. W8.1 was "kludged" to attempt to repair the damage -- a half way decent job has been done but once a product gets a bad name then it sticks --- look at the much maligned Vista -- if you run it on decent hardware it doesn't work to bad and has for a lot of people an appealing look -- AERO whatever its resource consumption was (AND IS) a quite liked feature.

    The modern Plasma effects on most Linux desktops show that its perfectly possible to have nice effects AND performance - the user should be able to select those things. If they choose a whole load of options that drag their system to a halt - that' s the USERS problem.

    As for the menu system -- it DOESN'T MATTER if it's good bad or indifferent -- if you are flogging a product to millions of customers who happen to LIKE a certain feature it makes NO BUSINESS SENSE whatsoever to remove it suddenly -- By all means introduce new ways of working - BUT allow people to grow used to it.

    Metro / full screen working has been shown to be totally flawed for any sort of CREATIVE CONTENT or typical office type working. Trying to base your OS primarily on small mobile devices is also not a good idea -- in any case the "Tablet craze" will have died away in a few years -- for proper work it's almost impossible to replace a proper computer TOTALLY with mobile devices.

    W8.1 is a bit of "Mea culpa" on Ms's part -- We'll see what they have in store for us for W9 - or even W8.1 Updsate part 2 later on in the year.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Agreed. An OS is just a fundamental layer that programs run on. Those Apps have a poor foundation to build on and can't be expected to fulfill the role desktop applications can.
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  5. #45


    Posts : 154
    Win7


    These thoughtful insights convince me that besides being technically excellent, 8F makes the deep dive which 7F always has. Am proud to be from your sister forums
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  6. #46


    Posts : 12
    Windows 7


    As a new windows owner I must admit I'm impressed with windows 8.1...The flat interface is great, there are plenty of Apps ans I like Metro with the touchscreen option on my laptop.

    I heard a lot of bad things on windows 8 over the past few years but I'm really glad I made the jump from 7 to 8.1 !
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  7. #47


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Blazergamer View Post
    As a new windows owner I must admit I'm impressed with windows 8.1...The flat interface is great, there are plenty of Apps ans I like Metro with the touchscreen option on my laptop.

    I heard a lot of bad things on windows 8 over the past few years but I'm really glad I made the jump from 7 to 8.1 !
    Nothing wrong with that. For simple applications and on a tablet it is quite good. But if you are a system guy, there are annoyances. It was not designed for PCs that are operated with keyboard and mouse.
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  8. #48


    Posts : 1,339
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64 bit


    It was not designed for PCs that are operated with keyboard and mouse.
    I am not sure what you mean by this. I have been running Windows 8 and 8.1 with a mouse and keyboard on a PC since 8 first came out. Sure, it is designed to run on touch screen devices as well, but that doesn't mean it can't be run with a mouse and keyboard.
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  9. #49


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJay View Post
    It was not designed for PCs that are operated with keyboard and mouse.
    I am not sure what you mean by this. I have been running Windows 8 and 8.1 with a mouse and keyboard on a PC since 8 first came out. Sure, it is designed to run on touch screen devices as well, but that doesn't mean it can't be run with a mouse and keyboard.
    Nor do I. Absolutely no problems whatsoever using either peripheral. Being more of a keyboarder than a mouser, the Windows Key is more useful than ever.
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  10. #50


    Posts : 2,627
    win8.1.1 enterprise


    Quote Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
    With an overdue SP2 it wouldn't really be a 2009 OS, and it doesn't show any signs of age anyway.

    I tried to interest others in 8 Explorer improvements and not one liked them. I think it pleases techies only. I thought the graphs were impressive, but it isn't nearly enough to capture consumers.

    Metro makes Rube Goldberg seem simple.
    I think as a MVP your suppose to love the both of them ,and nothing but nice things to say ,didn't you get the email last week .
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