Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8.1 Update 1 leaked

  1. #181


    Posts : 1,720
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Point of Interest:
    Windows Music App and Windows Media Player both playing the same song from the same library at the same time; both minimized to the Switcher and Taskbar respectively;
    Which is the greater resource hog?
    Attachment 37528

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  2. #182


    South Coast NSW, Australia
    Posts : 615
    Windows 8.1 'Ultimate' RTM 64 bit (Pro/WMC).


    Been away from the site for a while, so read this thread with interest.

    Must say that there's nothing there that leaps out at me as a 'must-have' although the possible return of Aero Glass (which should never have been removed) is a definite positive.

    The Metro side of things holds little interest, as I seldom go there (except to use All Apps as a Start menu, it does work well in 8.1). I wouldn't have seen the actual Start screen more than half a dozen times since installing 8.1 (leaked RTM build, 64-bit). The context menus and having the taskbar available in Metro are both good ideas which should have been there since Day One. I'm assuming Boot to Desktop will be remaining?

    Most of Microsoft's intrusive (imo) net-centricity still appears to have the ability to be turned off or otherwise negated, which is a plus.

    But the big killer (and yes, it is a gamebreaker, for me) is the changes to the UAC. A password to install a program or change a setting? No. Sorry. Isn't going to happen. I insist on having full access and full control at all times. If this cannot be disabled or worked around, then I'll stay on 8.1 for now.

    I'd also much rather do any install using an iso for a clean install or update, rather than the Store. I prefer working with physical media rather than downloading every time I want software. If MS does not provide one, I guess I'll have to go with a leaked build if I do decide to go ahead.

    A couple of other observations:

    Re Windows 8.1 not sleeping properly, I do not have the machine set to sleep in Power Settings. It runs with everything on, all the time. Although a laptop, it is of the 'desktop replacement' type, and is used as a desktop would be. But I often send it to sleep for extended periods using Charms>Settings>Power>Sleep. It always drops into Sleep mode without issue, and a quick keypress or mouse-click and it snaps awake instantly.

    Re the Desktop being an 'app' which can be closed. Not so. Try this... install something like Decor8 or similar, which will let you play with the transparency on the Start Screen. Close all apps, and close the desktop. Now use your chosen app/program to increase the Start screen's transparency. You will see that the desktop does not actually close. It is merely hidden by the Metro interface.

    Wenda.
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  3. #183


    Posts : 1,720
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    @ Wenda:
    You make some good points!
    This is, perhaps, in stark contrast to my previous comment but I find many Apps to be somewhat featureless if not boring or even redundant. It certainly doesn't entice desktop users to appreciate Modern apps to any greater degree.
    To me, the Desktop will always be the 'Work/Productivity' environment; the Modern environment is merely a 'playground'.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #184


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Wenda View Post
    Re the Desktop being an 'app' which can be closed. Not so. Try this...
    go to task manager, find Windows Explorer, right click on it, select to end task > desktop is closed!
    __________________________________________________________
    to restart > task manager or ctrl alt del > new task > run > explorer.exe

    In 8.1 the context menu from the edge UI app switcher has an added feature of replace .
    Close is still there, but it only removes it from the edge UI as a thumbnail.

    desktop is an app / shell / UI = explorer.exe (can be closed)
    It's complicated.
    Last edited by mdmd; 16 Feb 2014 at 09:05.
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  5. #185


    Posts : 2,627
    win8.1.1 enterprise


    Point of Interest:
    crazy ah.
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  6. #186


    "But the big killer (and yes, it is a gamebreaker, for me) is the changes to the UAC. A password to install a program or change a setting? No. Sorry. Isn't going to happen. I insist on having full access and full control at all times. If this cannot be disabled or worked around, then I'll stay on 8.1 for now."
    I have installed the iso in a dual boot, and the updates over my existing Windows 8.1 installation. By default, I have the UAC turned down to bottom position.
    I have not encountered any problems installing my own software on the new installationn, or in my updated installation.
    I don't believe there is any significant change from earlier Oss, if you have the UAC turned down.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #187


    Posts : 22,565
    64-bit Windows 10


    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    "But the big killer (and yes, it is a gamebreaker, for me) is the changes to the UAC. A password to install a program or change a setting? No. Sorry. Isn't going to happen. I insist on having full access and full control at all times. If this cannot be disabled or worked around, then I'll stay on 8.1 for now."
    I have installed the iso in a dual boot, and the updates over my existing Windows 8.1 installation. By default, I have the UAC turned down to bottom position.
    I have not encountered any problems installing my own software on the new installationn, or in my updated installation.
    I don't believe there is any significant change from earlier Oss, if you have the UAC turned down.
    Hey Dave,

    I'm thinking that if this is so, it may just be that will have the security policy in the tutorial below enabled by default instead now. If so, then it shouldn't be an issue to set it back to have UAC prompt administrators with Yes/No again instead of asking a password.

    UAC - Change Prompt Behavior for Administrators in Windows
    Last edited by Brink; 16 Feb 2014 at 15:45. Reason: updated link
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  8. #188


    Just had a quick look at the tutorial, Shawn. I would say that could be the case. Since my last post, I have installed a couple of program with the UAC in the top security position. The usual window but no request for a password? I am signed in with a Live ID, I have no idea if that might be the reason?
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  9. #189


    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 6,490
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit


    I applied the two leaked updates for Update 1. Those rumored security tweaks haven't happened yet, not as far as I can tell anyway. I have UAC set one up from the bottom which I believe is one down from the default. I haven't noticed any changes in the way my system works and no extra prompts for a password.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #190


    Posts : 308
    64-bit Windows 8


    Excuse me for not including the "quotes" of all the other posts in this thread that I'm referring to, but I didn't think it was necessary.

    1. I didn't mean the Desktop is an illusion; I meant that when you "close" it (or anything else) by pulling the hand cursor down, the "closing" is an illusion. There is really no closing -- just switching to the Start Screen. (And if a Metro app is running and you switch to the Desktop, you're not really closing the Metro app either.)

    2. When I said the Desktop doesn't have a "Start Screen" icon, I meant there's no icon ON the Desktop (or in any folder either) that goes to Metro. (And the only way to get one is by writing a program for it, as Brink did in one of his great tutorials.) Metro contains a visible and clickable link TO the Desktop, but the Desktop contains no such link to Metro. Why? Because they want to make it LOOK as though Metro IS the "OS" and the Desktop is "just one of its Apps." Another deliberately-created illusion.

    The two GUI's run side by side and independently of each other. Neither "calls" the other, and neither "returns" to the other. When you go to the Start Screen, you're not "returning" to it, like a return from a subroutine; you're just GOING to it. Every switch from one GUI to the other is a one-way switch; it's not like a "call" or like a "return"; it's like a "GOTO."

    But when you press Alt-F4, THAT (in general) is a "return." Metro apps "return" to the Start Screen, but Desktop apps "return" to the Desktop. And the Desktop itself doesn't "return" to anything. If you press Alt-F4 at the Desktop, there is no "return." You get a menu of choices -- Sleep, Restart, Shut down, Sign out, or Switch user. "Return to the Start Screen" isn't even among them!

    3. The statement "The Desktop = explorer.exe" is true -- but only if what you mean by "Desktop" is just the GUI -- the screen display -- and nothing else. What I mean by "Desktop" is not merely the GUI, but the whole Desktop "environment" consisting of all the system programs, and their folders and files, which the Windows system consists of -- the stuff in the "C:\Windows" and "Program Data" and "App Data" folders and so on. The Desktop and Metro GUI's are just two different displays of that same system, the main difference being that Metro is probably something like 3 percent of the system and the Desktop environment is the other 97 percent. Even the Metro apps themselves, and their data, are tucked away in hidden and restricted system folders that are part of the Desktop environment.

    4. Sure, you can close File Explorer. But, with or without File Explorer, all those system programs are still running. Without them running, there'd be no Desktop, no Metro, no Windows, and in effect no computer. All File Explorer does is to DISPLAY the Desktop environment on the screen so you can manipulate it. So if you close File Explorer you're "closing" the Desktop environment in the sense that it's no longer on the Screen, but it's still open in the sense that it's STILL RUNNING. And when you go to the Desktop, you're "closing" Metro in the sense that it's no longer on the screen. So what?

    In fact, look at the batch file that restarts File Explorer. Leaving out all the non-essential "echo" stuff, it consists of two steps:

    taskkill /f /im explorer.exe
    start explorer.exe

    The first step closes File Explorer, and the second re-opens it. Right? Well, these commands are executed by "cmd.exe" -- the Command Prompt app, which is part of the Desktop environment. So if the whole Desktop environment was actually terminated by the first command -- in the sense that its control block in the computer's memory was de-activated, so in effect it's gone from memory -- then File Explorer could NOT be restarted, because "cmd.exe" would be gone from memory before it can execute the second command.

    Similarly, when you use Task Manager to close File Explorer, you couldn't reopen it if the Desktop environment were terminated, because Task Manager would be gone from memory too.

    The statement "File Explorer can be closed" is true -- but only in the sense that it can be removed from the screen. And so can anything else. But from boot until shutdown, both environments are simultaneously active in memory.

    The only things that can be truly closed -- that is, terminated -- are the Desktop apps. File Explorer is one of those, but the Desktop environment is not.
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