Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft to shake-up Windows 8 Start screen

  1. #81


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    You do realize that you can just simply hit the Start button and type a search for a file, program or settings if it's not already pinned to the first section of the Start Screen, right? Or am I making superficial judgments?...
    That's what I said if you read my last post carefully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The problem that stems for them is apple again, with one blow, an ipad can effectively get rid of Microsoft's bread and butter: Windows, IE, Office, and the PC. If they don't put themselves back into the mobile field again, Windows will become the way of linux, it could end up being used only by a select faction of users and that's it. I don't want to see that.
    I'm not saying they shouldn't put themselves in the mobile field at all. They are dominant on the Desktop right now because more of the apps that people are used to run on Windows and more people are accustomed to Windows than Mac or Linux obviously. How can you even say that iPad can take down Windows if Windows don't enter the mobile/tablet world? Just because there were news they are being demanded on the enterprise level or by some group of people if I remember it right? As far as I'm concerned, I am not that interested with the iPad, the first editions of those did not even have USB ports and act like oversized iPhones whose apps cannot be multitasked, no close button and window controls. I felt I can do more with a Windows 7 notebook. It would take a much greater punch for iPad to take down Windows. And besides, Macs are expensive. I think more hardware are built for Windows. An iPad may be worth twice as much as a netbook. People will go for something that costs less and does more.

    PCs, laptops and netbooks will still be dominating for the next few years against the tablet because they are more available, have compatible parts and hardware more available in stores and PC's are more powerful than tablets too. Knowing that they still have like 90+ percent of the market shares right now on personal computers, what MS has to do now is make sure their Desktop PC stays on top by developing it in a way that would not hinder the people's accustomed way of productivity but sadly for MS, that's what many people so far have perceived the major design change on Windows 8 and regardless of the research mumbo jumbo MS came up with, many people are still left unhappy with that design whilst many have little or no effort for this "learning curve". Outside the Metro, there is not enough features in Windows 8's desktop part as of now that would significantly convince people who has Windows 7 to move in.

    But anyway, they still have Windows 7 still happily selling licences today so even if Windows 8 does not make it big, there's still something strong that holds their ground.

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  2. #82


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    You do realize that you can just simply hit the Start button and type a search for a file, program or settings if it's not already pinned to the first section of the Start Screen, right? Or am I making superficial judgments?...
    That's what I said if you read my last post carefully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The problem that stems for them is apple again, with one blow, an ipad can effectively get rid of Microsoft's bread and butter: Windows, IE, Office, and the PC. If they don't put themselves back into the mobile field again, Windows will become the way of linux, it could end up being used only by a select faction of users and that's it. I don't want to see that.
    I'm not saying they shouldn't put themselves in the mobile field at all. They are dominant on the Desktop right now because more of the apps that people are used to run on Windows and more people are accustomed to Windows than Mac or Linux obviously. How can you even say that iPad can take down Windows if Windows don't enter the mobile/tablet world? Just because there were news they are being demanded on the enterprise level or by some group of people if I remember it right? As far as I'm concerned, I am not that interested with the iPad, the first editions of those did not even have USB ports and act like oversized iPhones whose apps cannot be multitasked, no close button and window controls. I felt I can do more with a Windows 7 notebook. It would take a much greater punch for iPad to take down Windows. And besides, Macs are expensive. I think more hardware are built for Windows. An iPad may be worth twice as much as a netbook. People will go for something that costs less and does more.

    PCs, laptops and netbooks will still be dominating for the next few years against the tablet because they are more available, have compatible parts and hardware more available in stores and PC's are more powerful than tablets too. Knowing that they still have like 90+ percent of the market shares right now on personal computers, what MS has to do now is make sure their Desktop PC stays on top by developing it in a way that would not hinder the people's accustomed way of productivity but sadly for MS, that's what many people so far have perceived the major design change on Windows 8 and regardless of the research mumbo jumbo MS came up with, many people are still left unhappy with that design whilst many have little or no effort for this "learning curve". Outside the Metro, there is not enough features in Windows 8's desktop part as of now that would significantly convince people who has Windows 7 to move in.

    But anyway, they still have Windows 7 still happily selling licences today so even if Windows 8 does not make it big, there's still something strong that holds their ground.
    From what you said about search, it sounds like you need to find the Search button in the Charms bar to bring open the flyout. I'm saying that you can open the Start Screen, and just type like normal, and your search result display visually.

    How can an ipad take down the desktop? Mostly, people are deluded by apple's faux flair of everything new and the same by making it shiny and thin. Then, there is the fact that for 500 dollars, you get an internet browser, access to a word processor, access to your itunes media (if downloaded) and access to mobility all without using a bit of Microsoft code and all without bloat/crapware along with the fact that malware isn't coded for ipads. If you were to do that with a PC, you'd need a netbook, some time to unistall the superfluous software, Word or Office 2010, and an antivirus if you want to buy it. All said and done, you're left with a small device with a tactile keyboard and a somewhat impotent touchpad and a small screen with a processing that may or may not feel as fast as an ipad. Pricewise, you MIGHT just come under 500 dollars. You could get under 500 dollars if you only have one Office program installed, maybe two. Even then, netbooks are genuinely dying off, and the discussion goes to a laptop instead of a netbook. To do all that, it'd be over 500 dollars. To make matters worse, the next ipad might be 3 to 400 dollars. But to stipulate, we're talking about daily, light usage.

    Piled on top of that, the user would need to do maintenance to keep Windows in shape, either that user goes to the internet and tries it themselves or the go the geek squad to do such. Maintenance cost. An ipad unfortunately has an advantage, intenet browsing, document compiling, very mobile, media enabled with itunes, all under 500 dollars all without Microsoft. That to them, is a severe threat.

    And to say, I no way shape or form even think an ipad is a PC. A PC isn't a device you have to connect to an external managing device to keep it organized.

    The Desktop is still around and being used, but not being sold. Tablet devices made up two thirds of all desktop sales recently. That could show a move to mobile and less towards a desktop. Laptops dominated all. If Microsoft doesn't get Windows into the mobile, tablet field, it could be a day late and a dollar short if they did for Windows 9. Actually, some people think Microsoft IS a day late and a dollar short with Windows 8 in the tablet field....
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  3. #83


    Posts : 33
    Windows 7 SP1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante View Post

    Obviously, I still don't know for sure how Metro apps will be like in real life, because Windows Store hasn't opened yet. But I have a very good feeling that at with live tiles, notifications, search contracts, auto-save states, Windows Live syncing etc. features, I will be able to completely move into the beautiful new Metro world. Only Visual Studio and Qt Creator are two products that will have to remain with the classic UI. For everything else -- browsing, checking emails, chatting, social networking, document editing, number crunching, creating slides etc. -- Metro will be perfect. At least that's my gut feeling.

    But the Start Screen is a clear winner ALREADY.
    As usual, you do not know what you are talking about. Metro-style apps are not going to be rich programs, they are going to be simplified apps designed for touch use. Now, because of the need for touch in these apps, elements of the menu and the data have to be larger than in current desktop programs. Thus, a Metro version of Excel will present fewer commands and much fewer cells, otherwise it could not be used by touch. Nor can I do detailed Photoshop work in a touch-enabled application, one needs the finer control of the mouse of resistive tablet (that registers pressure).

    I think that the existence of Metro fanboys is a disturbing development. I have no problem with simplified apps for tablets and smartphones, but I do have a problem with these apps on the desktop. Especially when the only way of presenting them is full screen (which is laughable for an OS called Windows).

    However, you are not in a position to discuss this issue logically. If you want to believe into your great Metro world, be my guest.
    Ha ha you are so incredibly ignorant on this issue! For the millionth time: Metro is NOT a touch-only interface. It is NOT a tablet interface. It is equally productive to use with a mouse and keyboard just as it is with touch.

    Metro apps are going to be incredibly rich and productive. They will slowly but surely completely replace fugly old classic apps.

    It's funny how you guys are always repeating the same thing: "If you love Metro -- so be it. Don't try to convince others." But you are doing the EXACT same thing when it comes to opposing Metro.

    As long as there are going to be people who illogically criticize Metro -- I'm going to point out how incredibly productive, beautiful and gorgeous it is. I'm not going anywhere. So get used to hearing about how great Metro is.
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  4. #84


    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail


    Coke Robot said:
    I think you or another forum member that once posted a YouTube video of an IT admin using Windows 8 and dismissed it right away
    That's not what I had said at all. I said, and shown that video as the Linux Camp was scared of Windows 8 new capabilities. Wasn't an attack by myself on Windows 8.
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  5. #85


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    Coke Robot said:
    I think you or another forum member that once posted a YouTube video of an IT admin using Windows 8 and dismissed it right away
    That's not what I had said at all. I said, and shown that video as the Linux Camp was scared of Windows 8 new capabilities. Wasn't an attack by myself on Windows 8.
    Actually, I think it was me who posted a link to an IT admin disliking WDP.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #86


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    [QUOTE=Coke Robot;58645]
    I understand the unix/linux spiel and get how apple's mac os is the biggest scam in the industry.

    Is it? How's that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Hmm, from what I understand, MSDOS came before Windows. Windows was Microsoft's first windowing OS after years of using keyboard commands and black screens with pixelated font. The GUI interface of OSs came from Xerox's GUI prototype, which apple used for their Lisa computer, which Microsoft used and subsequently; apple sued Microsoft for using the look and feel of their OS.
    Now, I have never heard of a tiling OS in my life, windowing, yes. A command prompt based, OS, yes.

    Now, you understand very little. MS-DOS came just a few years before Windows. Windows 1.0 (that showed up in 1985) did not do "windows". It only did "tiles" on the screen. MS-DOS was quite similar to CP/M, the OS that ruled the 8-bit world of microcomputing. CP/M itself was based very much on Unix conventions. When these operating systems were in their infancy and until the mid-90's, it was minicomputers running versions of Unix that provided the essential iron for corporate computing. Unix was a very capable multitasking OS. In fact, OSX is just a variant of Unix which Steve Jobs developed for NeXT and then sold to Apple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I maybe making uninformed assumptions, but isn't that what some people are doing when they review a developer preview of Windows 8? I think you or another forum member that once posted a YouTube video of an IT admin using Windows 8 and dismissed it right away. Was that an informed review, or was it just a quicky use and call it inferior? I don't know for sure.
    I am not sure what you are referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I would say gestures are not proper for tablets or smartphones. From what I think, a tablet or smartphone's main input is touch. A desktop obviously wouldn't be using a touchscreen for obvious reasons. That's where gesture input comes in. I can sit back at my desktop as normal, and do gesture motions with my hands to interact with my operating system. This is where the Microsoft Kinect comes in, heck, even the Microsoft Touch Mouse can be used.
    Well, if you want to gesticulate to your screen, be my guest. I think that would be quite funny. It is a just a gimmick or a good way of interacting with certain games, I guess. But the moment you take your hands off the keyboard to start gesticulating, your work will suffer. Maybe you do not have any work to do, and you just like playing with your computer.
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  7. #87


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante View Post

    Ha ha you are so incredibly ignorant on this issue! For the millionth time: Metro is NOT a touch-only interface. It is NOT a tablet interface. It is equally productive to use with a mouse and keyboard just as it is with touch.

    Metro apps are going to be incredibly rich and productive. They will slowly but surely completely replace fugly old classic apps.

    It's funny how you guys are always repeating the same thing: "If you love Metro -- so be it. Don't try to convince others." But you are doing the EXACT same thing when it comes to opposing Metro.

    As long as there are going to be people who illogically criticize Metro -- I'm going to point out how incredibly productive, beautiful and gorgeous it is. I'm not going anywhere. So get used to hearing about how great Metro is.
    You sound like a little kid that sees somebody wanting to take their toy away.

    If Metro apps are more capable than the current desktop apps, then I would buy them. But they are not going to be. These are going to be apps mainly for tablets and smartphones, not for the desktop. The very dynamics of touch make this a necessity. Yes, I realize that Metro does work with the keyboard and mouse but it is "touch first". Do you even understand what this means??? I think that you do not.

    "Touch first" means that an application is mainly designed for touch input. There are guidelines posted by MS to developers as to what this means. Elements of menus and selectable elements of text or other data have to be a certain size to be selected. This is a necessity for capacitive touch screens. When this essential guideline is enabled, everything needs to be much more simplified because one cannot include all the elements of a command structure and data in a "touch-first" program that one can include in a "keyboard-mouse" program. Thus, Metro-style apps are going to be these $1.99 -$4.99 apps that are being sold by all current "stores". There is no way of designing a rich Photoshop-type application to be touch-first and retain the capabilities of the "Keyboard -mouse" one. Just see what is possible today in the iPad world and you will get a good idea as to what these apps are going be like. You may, of course, want to believe that the iPad developers are not as good as the "Metro" developers but even you would not make this logical leap.
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  8. #88


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    Coke Robot said:
    I think you or another forum member that once posted a YouTube video of an IT admin using Windows 8 and dismissed it right away
    That's not what I had said at all. I said, and shown that video as the Linux Camp was scared of Windows 8 new capabilities. Wasn't an attack by myself on Windows 8.
    Actually, I think it was me who posted a link to an IT admin disliking WDP.
    Yeah, I think so too. It was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #89


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    [QUOTE=ADRz;58775]
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I understand the unix/linux spiel and get how apple's mac os is the biggest scam in the industry.

    Is it? How's that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Hmm, from what I understand, MSDOS came before Windows. Windows was Microsoft's first windowing OS after years of using keyboard commands and black screens with pixelated font. The GUI interface of OSs came from Xerox's GUI prototype, which apple used for their Lisa computer, which Microsoft used and subsequently; apple sued Microsoft for using the look and feel of their OS.
    Now, I have never heard of a tiling OS in my life, windowing, yes. A command prompt based, OS, yes.

    Now, you understand very little. MS-DOS came just a few years before Windows. Windows 1.0 (that showed up in 1985) did not do "windows". It only did "tiles" on the screen. MS-DOS was quite similar to CP/M, the OS that ruled the 8-bit world of microcomputing. CP/M itself was based very much on Unix conventions. When these operating systems were in their infancy and until the mid-90's, it was minicomputers running versions of Unix that provided the essential iron for corporate computing. Unix was a very capable multitasking OS. In fact, OSX is just a variant of Unix which Steve Jobs developed for NeXT and then sold to Apple.



    I am not sure what you are referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I would say gestures are not proper for tablets or smartphones. From what I think, a tablet or smartphone's main input is touch. A desktop obviously wouldn't be using a touchscreen for obvious reasons. That's where gesture input comes in. I can sit back at my desktop as normal, and do gesture motions with my hands to interact with my operating system. This is where the Microsoft Kinect comes in, heck, even the Microsoft Touch Mouse can be used.
    Well, if you want to gesticulate to your screen, be my guest. I think that would be quite funny. It is a just a gimmick or a good way of interacting with certain games, I guess. But the moment you take your hands off the keyboard to start gesticulating, your work will suffer. Maybe you do not have any work to do, and you just like playing with your computer.
    Well, mac os is a scam to me because it's an applefied unix operating system. Unix and linux are traditionally open sourced software. To me, asking someone to pay 2,500 dollars for a top of the line, Intel machine running an OS with a traditionally small foot print and is based off open source software is an outrage.

    Windows 1 looked more like, different windows on a screen. Or tiles if you want. But that had different windows open to show different things at once, until later versions.

    We figured out who posted that video, it was a while back.

    I don't gesturing to my PC would be silly. That would be the same argument to make against the Kinect for Xbox, it's silly to gesture to your TV. I think gesturing could replace use of a mouse most of the time, like for the major navigation and interaction with the OS. But then again, I guess work to you is meticulously pointing the mouse to a string of data and typing away. The use of gestures might become someone else's way of doing work, who knows...

    I actually do work on my machine by the way, thank you. I also like to play with my PC if I have the time. I also like tweaking settings of the software and hardware to achieve my machine's max. It's my Personal Computer, personalized the way I like.
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  10. #90


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante View Post
    It's funny how you guys are always repeating the same thing
    This, from someone who wrote the following - just in this thread:

    Metro is here to stay -- simply because it is by far the most beautiful and productive UI for DESKTOPS
    the new Start Screen is FAR more productive than the classic Start Menu for any kind of task.
    I NEVER said you have to say you find Metro beautiful and gorgeous like I do.
    why would you want to disable the beautiful and productive Metro UI in the first place?
    fugly old classic UI.
    If I had my way, there would be NO fugly classic desktop in Windows 8.
    I do know that the Metro Start Screen is FAR more productive than the fugly old classic UI.
    They will slowly but surely completely replace fugly old classic apps.
    As long as there are going to be people who illogically criticize Metro -- I'm going to point out how incredibly productive, beautiful and gorgeous it is. I'm not going anywhere. So get used to hearing about how great Metro is.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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