Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft to shake-up Windows 8 Start screen

  1. #71


    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail


    Just curious Jimbo, I am aware of those Tandy, and IBM products, BUT who was first on the scene? Radio Shack, or Osbourne?

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  2. #72


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    So you say this is wrong, that saying that people have a tendency to not like something different than they're used to?
    1.) I don't think about racism when I think about Windows.
    2.) I don't speak on behalf of the world, like you try to do.
    3.) I don't think in broad generalizations like you do, unless it's something like - people have a tendency to eat when they're hungry.
    But do you think that though?

    I know I'm going out there but that's just me.
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  3. #73


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Many systems are of good specs, but you need to consider millions of PCs are from the vista era, of single or dual core processors and below four gigs of RAM. Newer PCs do.
    I have do have a computer with just 1 GB of RAM and a dual processor and it could still rock on even if I had about 10 opened desktop programs or windows in it at once. I had that machine since mid 2008. But I could not stand on thinking that although Metro apps self-terminate if idle, I just want to be able to close them as I want and have them stop consuming resources right there and if they do self-terminate, that means I have to go back to the Start Screen, leave my running app and reopen the program that self-terminated, use it for a while and at that time, the other app I just left moments ago would have self-terminated as well. Most of the sample Metro apps that came with WDP can do no better than the games like Chess and Purble Place that came with Windows 7, well at least those can be windowed and have a decent close button.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    There are apps on phone marketplaces that do things a desktop gadget cannot do, other than a desktop program. But my 1o dollar app, 100 dollar program is a hypothetical situation. Given the choices, a consumer would go with what costs less to them and adapt to that.
    Well let us not forget that most Desktop gadgets are free and takes just a fraction of the screen compared to Metro apps. As I said before, there are thousands and thousands of freeware Desktop apps there that people are used to. I think most people would go for something that is already free with windowing and multitasking abilities they are already used to than a 10 dollar app that you need to adapt to and have no windowing ability and poor multitasking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    So, when you use Windows 7 and open the start menu, where does your focus go to? Does it stay on some open window or windows, or do you focus on opening something up from it?
    My focus goes on to what I would like to do first depending on the situation but I would like to be able switch in between them quickly and fullscreen is not the way with that.

    I would not use Metro apps if I do not like them of course but its this Metro Start Menu that's getting in my way and disabling it disables some other features that should not have been linked to the Metro like System Refresh and System Reset. And that's what disappoints me. Why the heck don't they just make it optional?
    I've been working on a laptop that was built last year and has a single core processor and couple gigs of RAM. It's a vista styled experience when having 10 or more tabs in Internet Explorer open. Then again, it is an entry level machine.

    When I speak of apps and programs, I am talking about something more a user can get than a desktop gadget. Like, having just Word 2010 on the Desktop and an applet of it in Metro. But looking at this from a capitalistic side, a developer can't make much money off a gadget. They would need to focus on making a program and selling it. The Start Screen offers a newer design platform for them to work on. People will buy apps from apple's app store for they have millions of apps, they sometimes do in android's. They can try before they buy in the Windows Phone marketplace. But with the desktop, that experience doesn't translate over. Some companies have try before you buy setups, some have lite versions, some require that you buy it before you install it. The Windows Market place will offer a solid, well defined interface.

    So, if I may assume, your focus when you want to open something up goes on the left hand side of the screen?
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  4. #74


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Well, a windowing OS is even older than metro, like, a good 20 years. And even then, Windows Phone is a totally different market than PCs, you need manufacturers of handsets and carriers to adopt it over crapdroid phones.
    Well, first you do not have any knowledge of the evolution of Windows. In fact, Windows started as a "tiling" OS, not as a "windowing" OS. Full screen multitaskers are far older, they date from the time of the original Unix. In fact, until the evolution of the GUI, all capable OSes (main frame, mini, and some micro computing) were "full screen" multitaskers with access to other running programs provided with a key stroke sequence. Today, all the mobile OSes are "full screen" multitaskers, like the system of old, with access to running programs provided by a key sequence. Thus, Win8 is really taking us back by 50 years, at least. When graphical interfaces arrived, the capability of placing applications in windows was heralded as a major breakthrough. Now, you seem pleased to go back to the days of Bell and the original versions of Unix (on which all current mobile OSes are based).

    Just for you to know -and some others here- the mobile OSes of today (iOS, Android) are based on Unix. In fact, OSX is a customized version of Unix; Android is Linux-light, which is another modification of Unix. So, there is nothing new or particularly innovative here. Of all the current mobile OSes -with the exemption of Android- are not even true multitaskers. Win8 "Metro" seems to be a limited multitasker, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    You statement saying that if Microsoft was sure everyone would love metro, they'd let people make it optional is a complete wasted statement. It says nothing, it says to me, "I don't like metro and if Microsoft was sure I'm not going to like it, they should make it optional." Then that's just Windows 7!
    I really hope for the sake of Microsoft that Win8 is something more than a mobile OS running the Win7 desktop as a task. If you are right and in the absence of Metro you have just Win7, then those with laptops and desktops have absolutely no reason to buy this OS. I will await to see the beta and if it is very similar to the developers preview, forget it. I am staying with Win7, there is no reason to use this OS. It is an issue of money, in fact, as a Technet subscriber I would have access to 5 licenses, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I get annoyed when people make superficial criticisms about something they don't know enough about to fully make judgment. Mind you, many metro haters have used Windows 8 less than they may have used a smartphone OS, or even watched a movie. It bugs me. Good luck with mac os, it's taking components of iOS as major design themes of it, a touch device on a non-touch device. And android, HA! That's silly.
    First of all, you make assumptions that are incorrect. And I think that we have proven here that it is you who is uninformed. But let's not go there. In fact, I like Android a lot and Win7 with access to Android apps (which you can do right now) is a better solution than Win8 for those who want access to mobile apps on their desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I pose two questions, why be hesitant against touch and gesture? I know, keyboard and mouse are more precise and it's worked since the invention of the mouse pointer OS, but again, I go back to saying, why use a gas engine when an alternate can be able to do the same with some work? And also, if I may ask, how old are you?
    Listen and listen carefully, because you are answering to your preconceptions and not the arguments made here.

    (a) Touch and gesture are proper for handheld devices (smartphones and tablets). I have no problem with any of this
    (b) Touch and gesture are improper for non-handheld devices (desktops and laptops). I suggest that you sit in front of your desktop and start touching the screen. Your shoulders would tire very quickly and selecting either data of commands would become much slower. For desktops and laptops, the keyboard and the mouse remain the fastest input devices. It really does not matter how old they are, they are the best we have. The wheel is thousands of years old but it is still the best thing we have to move vehicles, isn't it????
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  5. #75


    Posts : 33
    Windows 7 SP1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    This is impossible to know until 8 is in the marketplace, and I couldn't care less either way. Seems you want to believe it's true, because you cling to this idea every time you write something, and the more someone pushes back on that statement the more you double down on it. I don't know how you could advocate that 8 is better when 8 isn't even on the shelves. The only people who are using it now are a fraction of a slice of a sliver of Windows users, and bunch of them hate it. How many? No clue. It's not insignificant, otherwise MS wouldn't have gone on the defensive like they have. My guess is that a lot more people want to try the beta and/or can't wait for it than not. I'm in the camp that will definitely try it out. But you're going on nothing but theory here, which is fine in the theory world, but useless in the real world until it's unleashed upon it. Even if the statement were true, what does that prove? That everyone needs to use 8 or else they're an idiot? C'mon.

    At least you understand we see this OS differently, and that's progress.
    No, I do have a very good idea that it works. I do know that the Metro Start Screen is FAR more productive than the fugly old classic UI. I have been using the Windows 8 DP every single day as my main and only OS since day 1. I am simply loving the productivity improvements the Metro Start Screen has brought. So, there's no doubt that Metro Start Screen is far more productive for most people.

    Obviously, I still don't know for sure how Metro apps will be like in real life, because Windows Store hasn't opened yet. But I have a very good feeling that at with live tiles, notifications, search contracts, auto-save states, Windows Live syncing etc. features, I will be able to completely move into the beautiful new Metro world. Only Visual Studio and Qt Creator are two products that will have to remain with the classic UI. For everything else -- browsing, checking emails, chatting, social networking, document editing, number crunching, creating slides etc. -- Metro will be perfect. At least that's my gut feeling.

    But the Start Screen is a clear winner ALREADY.
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  6. #76


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Changed my mind, Pezz. You don't understand. But you've got the best OS ever. Maybe you could learn to be content with that instead of worrying why the entire world doesn't see things exactly like you do.
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  7. #77


    Posts : 162
    windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante View Post

    Obviously, I still don't know for sure how Metro apps will be like in real life, because Windows Store hasn't opened yet. But I have a very good feeling that at with live tiles, notifications, search contracts, auto-save states, Windows Live syncing etc. features, I will be able to completely move into the beautiful new Metro world. Only Visual Studio and Qt Creator are two products that will have to remain with the classic UI. For everything else -- browsing, checking emails, chatting, social networking, document editing, number crunching, creating slides etc. -- Metro will be perfect. At least that's my gut feeling.

    But the Start Screen is a clear winner ALREADY.
    As usual, you do not know what you are talking about. Metro-style apps are not going to be rich programs, they are going to be simplified apps designed for touch use. Now, because of the need for touch in these apps, elements of the menu and the data have to be larger than in current desktop programs. Thus, a Metro version of Excel will present fewer commands and much fewer cells, otherwise it could not be used by touch. Nor can I do detailed Photoshop work in a touch-enabled application, one needs the finer control of the mouse of resistive tablet (that registers pressure).

    I think that the existence of Metro fanboys is a disturbing development. I have no problem with simplified apps for tablets and smartphones, but I do have a problem with these apps on the desktop. Especially when the only way of presenting them is full screen (which is laughable for an OS called Windows).

    However, you are not in a position to discuss this issue logically. If you want to believe into your great Metro world, be my guest.
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  8. #78


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    So, if I may assume, your focus when you want to open something up goes on the left hand side of the screen?
    Yes, for a moment my focus goes to the left hand side of the screen, I see nothing wrong with that and since I could type what I was looking for in the search bar if its not already pinned on the Start Menu list, I could get to it in seconds! Much better than the search function on Windows 8 that makes me focus on the left then the right of the screen where a green search section appears.

    Windows does not dominate the phone and tablet worlds and it would be very hard for their marketplace to compete with Apple's or with the Android's phone and tablet empires and as I said before I have not felt any huge uproar of developers rushing to make these 10 dollar apps and even if they do, few people who use Desktops will actually put much use to them. Microsoft should have maintained their dominance on the Desktop because that was their bread and butter not fuse it with phones and tablets just because theirs needed more attention. There would have been so many more ways to develop the Desktop PC.

    Apple just seems to beat them when it comes to perfecting technology. M$ are more concerned in perfecting profit$.
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  9. #79


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    So, if I may assume, your focus when you want to open something up goes on the left hand side of the screen?
    Yes, for a moment my focus goes to the left hand side of the screen, I see nothing wrong with that and since I could type what I was looking for in the search bar if its not already pinned on the Start Menu list, I could get to it in seconds! Much better than the search function on Windows 8 that makes me focus on the left then the right of the screen where a green search section appears.

    Windows does not dominate the phone and tablet worlds and it would be very hard for their marketplace to compete with Apple's or with the Android's phone and tablet empires and as I said before I have not felt any huge uproar of developers rushing to make these 10 dollar apps and even if they do, few people who use Desktops will actually put much use to them. Microsoft should have maintained their dominance on the Desktop because that was their bread and butter not fuse it with phones and tablets just because theirs needed more attention. There would have been so many more ways to develop the Desktop PC.

    Apple just seems to beat them when it comes to perfecting technology. M$ are more concerned in perfecting profit$.
    You do realize that you can just simply hit the Start button and type a search for a file, program or settings if it's not already pinned to the first section of the Start Screen, right? Or am I making superficial judgments?...

    Again, as a desktop user, you don't like or need metro apps, don't use them. It's just like if you have desktop gadgets, you can use them if you want.

    You're right, Windows hasn't dominated the tablet market or the phone market. They haven't because they already tried before, no one was interested. People didn't want to buy an even more impotent touch screen mobile computer even if it did have a few touch features built in with Windows xp. Most people didn't have a need for smartphones or digital assistants in the days of Windows Mobile. That all changed with apple. apple is dominating that field because Microsoft already dominated the desktop. The problem that stems for them is apple again, with one blow, an ipad can effectively get rid of Microsoft's bread and butter: Windows, IE, Office, and the PC. If they don't put themselves back into the mobile field again, Windows will become the way of linux, it could end up being used only by a select faction of users and that's it. I don't want to see that.
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  10. #80


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by ADRz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    Well, a windowing OS is even older than metro, like, a good 20 years. And even then, Windows Phone is a totally different market than PCs, you need manufacturers of handsets and carriers to adopt it over crapdroid phones.
    Well, first you do not have any knowledge of the evolution of Windows. In fact, Windows started as a "tiling" OS, not as a "windowing" OS. Full screen multitaskers are far older, they date from the time of the original Unix. In fact, until the evolution of the GUI, all capable OSes (main frame, mini, and some micro computing) were "full screen" multitaskers with access to other running programs provided with a key stroke sequence. Today, all the mobile OSes are "full screen" multitaskers, like the system of old, with access to running programs provided by a key sequence. Thus, Win8 is really taking us back by 50 years, at least. When graphical interfaces arrived, the capability of placing applications in windows was heralded as a major breakthrough. Now, you seem pleased to go back to the days of Bell and the original versions of Unix (on which all current mobile OSes are based).

    Just for you to know -and some others here- the mobile OSes of today (iOS, Android) are based on Unix. In fact, OSX is a customized version of Unix; Android is Linux-light, which is another modification of Unix. So, there is nothing new or particularly innovative here. Of all the current mobile OSes -with the exemption of Android- are not even true multitaskers. Win8 "Metro" seems to be a limited multitasker, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    You statement saying that if Microsoft was sure everyone would love metro, they'd let people make it optional is a complete wasted statement. It says nothing, it says to me, "I don't like metro and if Microsoft was sure I'm not going to like it, they should make it optional." Then that's just Windows 7!
    I really hope for the sake of Microsoft that Win8 is something more than a mobile OS running the Win7 desktop as a task. If you are right and in the absence of Metro you have just Win7, then those with laptops and desktops have absolutely no reason to buy this OS. I will await to see the beta and if it is very similar to the developers preview, forget it. I am staying with Win7, there is no reason to use this OS. It is an issue of money, in fact, as a Technet subscriber I would have access to 5 licenses, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I get annoyed when people make superficial criticisms about something they don't know enough about to fully make judgment. Mind you, many metro haters have used Windows 8 less than they may have used a smartphone OS, or even watched a movie. It bugs me. Good luck with mac os, it's taking components of iOS as major design themes of it, a touch device on a non-touch device. And android, HA! That's silly.
    First of all, you make assumptions that are incorrect. And I think that we have proven here that it is you who is uninformed. But let's not go there. In fact, I like Android a lot and Win7 with access to Android apps (which you can do right now) is a better solution than Win8 for those who want access to mobile apps on their desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I pose two questions, why be hesitant against touch and gesture? I know, keyboard and mouse are more precise and it's worked since the invention of the mouse pointer OS, but again, I go back to saying, why use a gas engine when an alternate can be able to do the same with some work? And also, if I may ask, how old are you?
    Listen and listen carefully, because you are answering to your preconceptions and not the arguments made here.

    (a) Touch and gesture are proper for handheld devices (smartphones and tablets). I have no problem with any of this
    (b) Touch and gesture are improper for non-handheld devices (desktops and laptops). I suggest that you sit in front of your desktop and start touching the screen. Your shoulders would tire very quickly and selecting either data of commands would become much slower. For desktops and laptops, the keyboard and the mouse remain the fastest input devices. It really does not matter how old they are, they are the best we have. The wheel is thousands of years old but it is still the best thing we have to move vehicles, isn't it????
    I understand the unix/linux spiel and get how apple's mac os is the biggest scam in the industry.

    Hmm, from what I understand, MSDOS came before Windows. Windows was Microsoft's first windowing OS after years of using keyboard commands and black screens with pixelated font. The GUI interface of OSs came from Xerox's GUI prototype, which apple used for their Lisa computer, which Microsoft used and subsequently; apple sued Microsoft for using the look and feel of their OS.

    Now, I have never heard of a tiling OS in my life, windowing, yes. A command prompt based, OS, yes.

    I maybe making uninformed assumptions, but isn't that what some people are doing when they review a developer preview of Windows 8? I think you or another forum member that once posted a YouTube video of an IT admin using Windows 8 and dismissed it right away. Was that an informed review, or was it just a quicky use and call it inferior? I don't know for sure.

    I would say gestures are not proper for tablets or smartphones. From what I think, a tablet or smartphone's main input is touch. A desktop obviously wouldn't be using a touchscreen for obvious reasons. That's where gesture input comes in. I can sit back at my desktop as normal, and do gesture motions with my hands to interact with my operating system. This is where the Microsoft Kinect comes in, heck, even the Microsoft Touch Mouse can be used.

    On a side note, maybe we don't need to make flying cars after all....
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Microsoft to shake-up Windows 8 Start screen
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