Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Microsoft to shake-up Windows 8 Start screen

  1. #31


    Solo.
    Posts : 2,159
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit


    Agree with all the idea of changing the metro behavior (have it better, or remove it). My simple thought is that MS should have a balance between "a strong desire to lead the trend" and "functionality". We all already had them on the desktop and laptop, but sure not for the whole time. There is no way to beat up other gadgets by making the OS looks like an over-sized gadget. In fact, windows mobile also has it run. Or, it just because they lead the market, makes them aware they can shake or dictate the users?

    Wish MS have better ears not to hear but to listen..

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  2. #32


    Posts : 33
    Windows 7 SP1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post

    1.) I loved the ribbon since Day 1, love Aero - hate Metro. Why is it so hard to understand the valid criticisms? Instead of insulting people for not thinking like you, try to understand the other side. You think Metro is the most beautiful and productive UI for desktops? I think it's clunky, intrusive, impractical, pedantic, etc. The entire design to me is just awful. It's like nailing a 2nd grade bulletin board on top of the desk you want to do all the work on. I'm all for Windows blowing up the old OS model and trying something new, but there is nothing about Metro, as it stands now, that appeals to me. Lots of people here have explained their criticism in detail for months, but for some reason you ignore that and just call them Luddites.

    2.) You say it's SCIENTIFICALLY (all caps, even) proven that the change is more productive and user-friendly. What if this website decided to publish in Latin? You couldn't post anything unless it was in Latin. You think that change would be helpful? You see how it kinda matters what you're changing? How many Windows users can you SCIENTIFICALLY prove will be more productive with Windows 8? I'd like to see that evidence right now.

    You don't even realize you're engaging in the very behavior you claim to despise.
    Microsoft has done EXTENSIVE research on usability data, and posted the details on their blog how the new Metro UI has made things faster and more productive. That is SCIENTIFIC study -- not the lame excuses Metro haters put out.

    I have not so far seen ONE Metro hater dispute Microsoft's claims with any sort of rationality -- their rants are like this -- "Metro is a tablet UI, I don't want it on destkop", "Give me my old Start Menu back", "Metro is for noobs" etc etc. Why don't they give SPECIFIC examples how Metro hampers their productivity? I can CHALLENGE you that you can't find a SINGLE task that was faster using the old Start Menu than it is with the new Metro Start Screen. But Luddites still continue to moan and whine -- even though they will eventually have to get used to it simply because Microsoft won't give them a damn. Moreover, Ubuntu and OS X are also going in the exact same direction. It will be fun watching the Luddites' frustration in the coming months and years.
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  3. #33


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    pezzonovante said
    even when it is SCIENTIFICALLY proven that the change is more productive and user-friendly.
    I like to see proof of that statement. And I want it in regards of computer operating systems. Also no one is against change in this
    forum, we're the type of people that like to get into the guts of an O/S, not get a water down Mac O/S clone. I can basically guarantee
    no one in this forum have been about point and click and that's all there is.
    Now really, that's a huge assumption on both sides. Metro haters don't seem to like the fact the start menu takes a whole screen, even though when you open the start menu, that's where your focus is at on the desktop.

    Metro likers like the fact that it's new change, not an improved Windows vista with a larger taskbar.

    Windows 8 isn't a watered down mac os, iOS is a watered down version of mac os, which has been watered down by iOS. Metro haters in this forum honestly are for point and click. I've seen and we've all seen the thoughts on both sides, one side sees it as a dumbed down experience that makes keyboards and mice supposedly useless, and the other side sees it as a flexible interface.
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  4. #34


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lonewolf View Post
    pezzoneovante said
    But some so-called "power users" -- who are actually afraid of change -- think they are too smart even when they are proven wrong.
    Not true at all actually, I just want to see this so-called SCIENTIFIC evidence. I find it hard to believe that with other problems
    in the world today, they would actually go to the cost, and time to research and study something that seems to myself as so mundane.
    The simple science is the fact more can be displayed in one glance than the start menu, programs links are much easier to open up since it's a simple click on a decent sized tile, it offers a new interface for touch users, it offers a new experience with information, it offers flexibility.
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  5. #35


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    It's what I've said once before, most people don't like the Start Screen because it's change. It's a different and easier way to do the same thing that has been done for years. A criticism is that there isn't a search bar on the Screen. Well, search has become so present in our lives, we don't need a search bar. You just click on Start, and type away a search, and Windows offers three different filters to filter out results. A criticism is that you have to switch through screens and log out just to shut down. You just need to go to the Settings bar of the Charms and click on the power icon, and shut down.

    It's not dumbing down Windows. It's making it simpler to use based off how people use user interfaces. I think, quite frankly, that the people that think the Start Screen isn't progress, that keeping a giant start menu that will still display less information and program links, and has definitely become obsolete due to an OS that power users enjoy; they're really the ones that have dumbed down thinking. Microsoft has willingly put their main brand on the line all for the sake of innovation, of doing something new, something no one else has going, all to change the course of technology and how we use it. If you honestly expect them to not do that, we'd be here discussing the performance tweaks in an OS that is exactly like Windows 7, which is honestly a lot like Windows vista, which was nothing what the last Windows OS that aimed to innovate, Windows Longhorn. We're here, six years after vista, and we're still using an OS that acts and looks much like vista. Another OS that acts and looks like such will make Windows appear nothing more for being used only on desktops and maybe laptops and not on the next form factor of the future.

    Seriously, "power users" seem to be arrogant about Windows 8. They take a quick glance, quickly go through new changes and dismiss it as a tablet OS, literally within days or hours. I, for one, have used Windows 8 on my desktop since it was released last year, EVERY SINGLE DAY. I have learned all the ins and outs of it and would recommend using it to anyone. But since there is a faction of people that simple refuse to accept new changes and refuse to learn something new, that to me, is a dumbed down user. The person that makes an actual effort to learn something new and take advantage of it, that to me is a true power user.
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  6. #36


    Posts : 33
    Windows 7 SP1 x64


    @Coke Robot: That was honestly one of the best posts about Windows 8 I have read. I think your post sums it up perfectly. This post deserves to be made sticky in any Windows 8 forum.
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  7. #37


    Posts : 288
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9


    My question to the the defenders of the Metro is that, can Metro apps do more than existing Desktop apps besides display live tiles? They don't even have Window controls, their interfaces inside offer few menus to do things and its not easy to multitask in between them because they don't have window controls and act like apps on a smartphone or tablet even if its on a desktop where we use apps differently and seriously. You can't close them properly, you have to go back to the Start screen and wait till they are suspended. Even the Piano app still makes sound even if you have gone back to the Start Screen. And the power button being under the settings is such a headache because if you are a new user, you wouldn't even suspect its there. That is how critics of the Metro view it as "dumbed down". Innovation and change should always go but there's always a better solution and putting Metro in there is perhaps not the best solution and perhaps a bad solution to what others view of it. I don't care about the research MS have done. Its may just be a propaganda to make it look better. There are people who came to like it, but why don't just MS make it optional to favor us all?
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  8. #38


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    It's what I've said once before, most people don't like the Start Screen because it's change. It's a different and easier way to do the same thing that has been done for years.
    Just because you repeat yourself doesn't mean you're correct.

    1.) When someone says, "I don't like it", unless they give a specific reason after that, you can't assume what you just did. You're just projecting. If people didn't like change as much as you think, the world wouldn't have adapted to smart phones. I mean, who the hell needs a phone to do anything except make calls? And digital cameras? Gee, who's got a grudge against silver halide salt crystals? Why doesn't everyone demand prop planes instead of jets? Why aren't we clamoring for big boxy televisions and more stairs instead of elevators? Your reasoning here is terrible. It's got nothing to do with some abstract notion of change - and as much as people tell you this, you still ignore it. I don't know why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder against people who don't like Windows 8 as much as you. I don't disparage you for loving it. Why would I care? I'm glad you love it. I've never read anyone who insists you not like Windows 8, or that you're an idiot for doing so. Maybe they're out there, but if they are they are rare and they are idiots. Why do you insist the anti-Metro folks have inferior motives to you?

    2.) You continue to ignore the reams of practical criticism from people who disagree with you. You say Metro makes everything easier? I don't think it's easier to get things done at all. Goodness, seems we have a disagreement here. Is it because you like change more than I do? Is it because I'm stupid? Is it because I can't adapt? Or is it because Metro is nothing more than a PITA to me? I'll give you a hint, Coke: Occam's razor. Metro is in the way of everything I want to do. Maybe you like a nice little box for the weather staring at you first thing when you turn on your computer. Or maybe it's some other app. I don't give a poop about apps on a desktop. A phone or tablet is a different story. App away on those. But there is no photo app more powerful than the full version of Photoshop. Or Word. Or Excel. Or most games. Or a DAW. On and on. Oh, but you can put that stuff on the Metro screen. Gee, what forward thinking. Why do I need Metro for that? Because it's different? Because it's change? That's your big reason? You haven't really replaced the Start button at all. You've just blown it up to the size of the entire screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    We're here, six years after vista, and we're still using an OS that acts and looks much like vista.


    No, here we are three decades later and MS and Mac are still using pretty much the same OS concept - move mouse, click a window. Wonder why it's been that long? Maybe because it's worked? If someone can think of something better than what these two companies have done, fine. But the reasons for it have to be better than the ones you give.
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  9. #39


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Hi pezzo,

    I am afraid you are mistaken.

    It is human nature to want to like new things .

    The entire capitalist system is built on that - consumerism.

    That is why the word "new" is constantly being paraded on all kinds of products - from soap powder boxes to the latest iphone.

    If there is rejection of something new - it is because the users do not like it. New is not always better.

    No amount of scientific research makes any difference - it is the user who decides if they like it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by pezzonovante View Post
    Metro is here to stay -- simply because it is by far the most beautiful and productive UI for DESKTOPS, laptops, tablets and phones. Metro haters are the exact same group of people who hated the Ribbon, they are the same people who complained when Windows 95, XP's Luna theme and Vista's Aero theme first came out. These people hate any kind of change, even when it is SCIENTIFICALLY proven that the change is more productive and user-friendly. Microsoft is VERY good at ignoring this bunch of Luddites and doing the right thing for the majority of its customer base.
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  10. #40


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
    My question to the the defenders of the Metro is that, can Metro apps do more than existing Desktop apps besides display live tiles? They don't even have Window controls, their interfaces inside offer few menus to do things and its not easy to multitask in between them because they don't have window controls and act like apps on a smartphone or tablet even if its on a desktop where we use apps differently and seriously. You can't close them properly, you have to go back to the Start screen and wait till they are suspended. Even the Piano app still makes sound even if you have gone back to the Start Screen. And the power button being under the settings is such a headache because if you are a new user, you wouldn't even suspect its there. That is how critics of the Metro view it as "dumbed down". Innovation and change should always go but there's always a better solution and putting Metro in there is perhaps not the best solution and perhaps a bad solution to what others view of it. I don't care about the research MS have done. Its may just be a propaganda to make it look better. There are people who came to like it, but why don't just MS make it optional to favor us all?
    That's what we'll see in Windows 8 when app developers take their approach on metro apps. The fact that there won't be window controls may or may not be a good thing, but there will be a way to proactively kill the apps. As for multitasking in them, that may improve in later versions, we're still not at the end of the road of development. Window snap will be available for metro apps as well. Having apps that continue to play audio is the fault of immature code, and even then, metro apps don't suck a ton of system resource as it is.

    And that's what makes Microsoft the best in the end of the day, they respond to criticisms and change the course of development some to make a new product better. I don't know, there could be more customizations to the Start Screen in the Consumer Preview. I don't see how having different locations of known items is bad, obviously there will be an initial learning curve. But that's what it is, initially. People can adapt to new changes.

    Also, that research they've done sounds way too legit to even be thought of as propaganda. Why would they even need to do such when there is, in reality, actual benefits to change. People think Windows 8 could be seen as inferior since they don't see where they need to type a search in, even though when they do a search; they don't take notice of where the search bar is. Just because there are elements of the Start Screen that don't even take from the start menu, it doesn't mean the menu's function is gone, oh no, it's there and it's better.
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